I fear my points about forgiveness are possibly being lost here.
Two things:
First, HIS forgiving her and letting go of the issue, imo, have nothing to do with HER or what SHE says or does...
it's about not focussing on it, it's about his moving forward in HIS life no matter what SHE does...and not harping or obsessing, etc...also mandatory if they reconcile, and mandatory for him to be happy with or without her...
Second,
TELLING HER about forgiving her, when she doesn't yet SEEM to feel sorry for it
and in fact feels pretty darn justified in it, won't come off well.
(And she's not insane to feel that way. Even Johnnie, to his credit, sees his role there too)...but
to say it to her now, would only hurt things.
Plus it's a form of pressure to say it out loud (as if some condition has been met, but it wasn't a condition of HERS)
and it comes off as NOT coming from a judgemental place.
Johnnie, IF AND WHEN you reconcile, and you both feeling loving feelings of compassion,
THEN she'll make efforts to reassure you and at THAT time
maybe
you can discuss this with her.
You're nowhere near there yet.
Slowly do what has been working, which was slowly building.
I'm very curious about why you want to blow things and sabotage them by rushing with your "aggressive" behavior comment.
If you mean "passionate", use that word. You talk about being direct a lot.
But your word choice isn't so direct or if it is, it's coming off a tad scary to me and not appropriate given the situation.
You had some good decent talks with her, but most or ALL happened only
when she knew you had low expectations...
so now you want to ramp those UP, huh???
See my point? Take it easy.
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
I totally see your point 25. That's why I was unsure of when I should mention forgiveness. Thank you for the guidance on when, that feels right to me.
Also passionate is a better word to describe how I feel. I just have to keep my feet grounded. I have been known to make grand gestures In The past and I can see how that would put her off. Case in point. Over the weekend, I bought her some flavoured coffee whitener (white chocolate) for her coffee. She seemed genuinely touched that I thought of her, and was impressed that it was low fat to boot (she is on a diet).
So, take it slowly... I get it
I'll be more careful to watch for signs and let her actions show me when she is ready...
Johnnie
Me 45 W 34 W.A.W. 3K. D11 S9 D6 M 12 y T 13 y Bomb drop 02/22/2011 2nd written bomb (Letter bomb) 05/31/2011 Affair (A bomb) revealed 07/03/2011
I suggest you REALLY think about what forgiveness means. And if what you are feeling now is TRUE forgiveness.
This is not a dig at all. Just a very humble opinion from what I saw in myself.
You still want to be M to your W even after her A. In a lot of ways this looks like forgiveness. I know I looked at it this way.
I must have forgiven her if I still want to be M to her, right?
It goes a lot deeper than this.
Your reason for wanting R may not be forgiveness at all.
TRUE forgiveness may, IMO, most likely, take a lot longer.
Ask yourself if your forgiveness changes at all depending on her actions. What if she has not stopped her EA? What if it is a PA? Still forgive? Not just "still want to R," but forgive? Completely?
If it is TRUE forgiveness, why are you so eager to tell her?
Do you expect something from it? From her?
Again, remember. I post this from my own experience, so do not take this as any bashing of you. Only my realization that what seems one way at the beginning, may seem very different down the road.
BITS
Happiness is not something ready made. It comes from your own actions.
I suggest you REALLY think about what forgiveness means. And if what you are feeling now is TRUE forgiveness.
This is not a dig at all. Just a very humble opinion from what I saw in myself.
Your reason for wanting R may not be forgiveness at all. If it is TRUE forgiveness, why are you so eager to tell her?
Do you expect something from it? From her?
great points.
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
see this is the dilemma...the MLC was at 25 years...but now we've been m for 30...you see this CHALLENGE for me?
What to do? WHAT TO DO???
Oh, sorry for the hijack but it didn't seem worth a whole thread for me on this topic.
Thanks CS...we had a great cruise in the Meditarranean and saw 7 countries and went first class the whole way. (UNPrecedented)
VERY NICE...
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
If it is TRUE forgiveness, why are you so eager to tell her?
Do you expect something from it? From her?
I think you do expect something from it, Johnnie. B/c everything you've said or done....was with expectation. I know, you try to cover it with some other explanation, but deep down you hope it will cause a positive reaction in her. That's one reason you won't stop believing that words will fix this broken R and we keep telling you to hush.
Do not tell her you've forgiven her! Does it matter that a WAW is telling you this? DO NOT TELL HER YOU FORGIVE HER! It will not have the results you wish for if you tell her without her asking for it.
I did not ask my H for forgiveness and I doubt your W will either. I did ask him if he would ever trust me again. Well, guess what my H said? Yes, he would trust me...b/c that was who is was and he could not live any other way.
Forgiveness is based upon YOU, not the sinner. It's not based on whether she deserves it, wants it, or works for it. It is based upon who you are in your heart, and if YOU will forgive her or not.
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
BTW, when I said don't tell her until she "asks" for forgiveness......that doesn't mean you can't forgive her in your heart, okay? Just don't tell her b/c it will be a huge mistake right now. I know you don't understand why, but just trust me on this.
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
