Loving, Listening, and Letting Go..

[aeolianchaos]

Yowzers..so many powerful and insightful responses. I really appreciate that people are reading my thread and giving me feedback to help me course-correct as best I can.

Once you know your motivator, you know what to set your goals for...

KD - you have been on a roll lately with these kinds of statements. I have been trying to work this out - it isn't entirely clear to me what my motivator is. Or maybe it is clear and I just fail to recognize it as such.

To be loved? To be secure? To fight evildoers? To have a sense of self that is more rooted in myself than what I think others want me to be? To not make mistakes?

[aeolianchaos]

I'm telling you this, but in a lot of your posts it sounds like you blame her for the position you're in with work - or that you are in some way very tied to her around this stuff. I could be wrong, but I think that is something that can ... help.

Blame her? Maybe.. It is a weird situation, but basically we both were going towards the same career goals. The problem is that every time we relocated (literally every year we were together) it was for her benefit because in the back of my head I felt like she had a much stronger chance of 'making it'. At first I was okay - I had done good work networking and the first couple years was doing as well or better than she was at that stuff. However by year 3 we relocated for her stuff and I just couldn't get anything going - also, because we knew it was a temporary gig - I didn't have as much motivation to do as much to establish myself. I ended up getting burnt out and when we relocated (again) I couldn't get myself going again in terms of setting up gigs. Not working was a choice I made and blindly defended because I was very singleminded and lacked much sense of self-efficacy in terms of being able to work and pursue my bigger 'dreams.'

I made a lot of miscalculations along the way and I can't blame her for much of it. On the other hand, I hate to think that it somehow justifies her actions and her decision to leave the M. Afterall, despite my issues I was perpetually supportive of her and sacrificed what I did have in order to accommodate her. It put me in a really tough spot. It wasn't just because I was 'nice' but because I thought it was going to be in our mutual best interests. I just failed to really consider my own needs or realistically assess the situation quite a bit.

I have anger about it - anger about the fact that I was operating so insistently on this one path to the exclusion of much of the other things in life that are important. I also have anger that my W seems to be the sole beneficiary of my sacrifices and yet she uses them as a way to find fault with me.

I think it's the necessary path. Do something - perhaps - temporary - rather than finding the right perfect career for you right now ...

I agree. I am looking for something that I can do.. seeing a vocational counselor was a step for me. But finding a job is proving to be a very confusing pursuit for me. So many of these jobs require things I have no idea about. I don't get the impression that they want someone 'learning' on the job.

[~ kd ~]

... I have been trying to work this out - it isn't entirely clear to me what my motivator is. ...

... To fight evildoers? ...

LOL!!! Probably not a motivator... more like a goal...

As funny as that sounds, think about that... what VALUE do you get out of fighting evil doers? How does that make you FEEL?

Providing value to others just might be your motivator...

What would that look like, to you?

Would that get you up and out of bed in the mornings? Get you excited about doing your "job"?

The other things you mention as motivators are more like goals.

Let me explain it to you this way:

I want to be loved.

I will fight evil doers (provide great value to others with utmost passion) and I will feel loved (the gratitude your are given for providing great value)...

I want to be secure.

I will fight evil doers (provide great value to others AND self) and I will feel secure (evil doers are gone, loved ones and self safe)...

Do you see a theme here?

Don't want to make mistakes?

That means being perfect... Is that possible and realistic?

How about, "forgive myself for my mistakes, learn from them, and move forward..."

Responsibility, trust, and surrender...

Your other statement, paraphrased:

"To be true to self and not directed by my desire to be what I THINK others expect of me"

How would that look, to you?

That's not a motivator... It's a goal... but what's the FEAR in that one...?

[ESN]

Woah. I'm still confused about the diff. between fear-motivator-goal.

Geesh. But good stuff.

[aeolianchaos]

Just a quickie before I go for a walk.

Something I didn't recall about the conversation with my wife the other day:

She felt like she was afraid to tell me that she had feelings for another man before anything ever came of it.

She feels like because of my jealousy/reaction in the past when someone had feelings for her, she couldn't tell me about it.

At the time when we were discussing it, I got defensive and said "well I don't think my reaction last time was so harsh. And I was more upset that you were lying to me than about what that guy felt towards you."

In hindsight, i can see how my reaction - while not an excuse for her choices - was harsh. It was very reactive and certainly not representative of who I want to be as a spouse or as a person.

So.. do I acknowledge this? And Do I acknowledge that I was defensive the other day rather than understanding how she felt?

My gut instinct is take responsibility for it (without pointing out where she was wrong..) but my secondary thought is that it will come across as pleading or needy.




Thoughts?

[aeolianchaos]

Sorry, but a useless question. All of this. Doesn't exist NOW. Focus on what IS.

You don't think its useful for me to ask myself if I am really willing to follow through on what I said?

It's a lot more than not "want." You can't.
But you can get back to loving yourself. It is a lot more attractive than someone who doesn't.
Then, who knows?

I know I can't make her love me. But I don't want to pressure her to love me. I guess I mean I don't want to 'try' to 'make' her love me.

Accept that she said it. Nothing more.

I guess its hard for me to think 'oh she said that' and not look at it as 'oh she is saying what she means'

I appreciate the insights.

[aeolianchaos]

This is a very "Intellectual" thread.

I've been told I over intellectualize things on more than one occasion.

I appreciate a lot of what you said here, in terms of not basing myself off of other peoples response and reactions to me.

Being true to one's self = well, this is a moving target in many ways, isn't it? I tend to find that just when I think I've found my 'solid ground' is when the earth shifts a little bit this way or that way.

If you continually worry and change to suit someone other than yourself, then you forget yourself.

I think there is a balance here. I'm going to post something in a little bit on it, but it touches on the idea that part of being solid is being flexible, and being able to choose things that might involve sacrificing in the short term.

Aeo, you have done a lot of work, but instead of focusing so much on the outcome. Detach from it. KNOW you will be okay without her because of your journey. IF she wants to be with you, she will do everything possible to be and if she doesn't others will.

You are right. I am very focused on the outcome lately. I know the ultimate outcome is that I want to grow up and get more in touch with who I am and who I want to be. I think that there is something really good in there.

[aeolianchaos]

Providing value to others just might be your motivator...

This has been something I've been exploring. I don't know the answer but I know that when I have been able to help people I usually feel pretty good about myself. I have no idea about if it would get me out of bed in the morning, though. I probably would need to explore it more to find that out.

That means being perfect... Is that possible and realistic?

Nope. It's a good example of a belief/idea that I still grapple with. I think its founded in a couple things - childhood experiences.. my own issues w/ reflected sense of self. Things I'm actively working on but its good to recognize them when they pop into my consciousness.

"To be true to self and not directed by my desire to be what I THINK others expect of me"

I ask myself this a lot. To be honest, I don't have a very good answer. What would that look like? What does it mean to do that? To be true to my self? To act in accordance with who I really want to be? To recognize and accept who I am and work with that?

The fear -- it can be the fear of not having the autonomy that I imagine I have. It can also be the fear that in being true to myself the people who I care for may not care much for that version of me. I don't really fear that as much as the fear that that person will be rejected by some imaginary 'important' person whose opinion means so much to me.

I don't really know what others expect of me. It's more a question of predicting what they might think of me, if anything. Mind reading, fortune telling, and a lot of other cognitive distortions at their finest.

[~ kd ~]

Yeah...

You certainly can just "be" in a situation and get through it. The introspection may be irrelevant.

In the same token, we continuously strive to know ourselves and our "life purpose" so there's no harm, there...

You do a lot of that... yet I suspect that you DO have a good grounding in who you really are and what you believe...

It's been said to me sometimes:

"Stop thinking and start doing..."

Ya know?

[aeolianchaos]

Alright.. so some more stuff.

Just to repost this part, because I really don't want it getting lost in the flurry of posts :
"At the time when we were discussing it, I got defensive and said "well I don't think my reaction last time was so harsh. And I was more upset that you were lying to me than about what that guy felt towards you."
In hindsight, i can see how my reaction - while not an excuse for her choices - was harsh. It was very reactive and certainly not representative of who I want to be as a spouse or as a person.
So.. do I acknowledge this? And Do I acknowledge that I was defensive the other day rather than understanding how she felt?"

I feel like there is an opportunity here to own up to something that I don't like about myself, and that she clearly has held on to.

Walking around the park today trying to get some exercise and clear my mind - I found myself returning to this idea that all of my sacrifices in support of my W played a role in her losing respect for me, despite the fact that those same sacrifices helped her achieve much of what she achieved.

I often wonder if there isn't some borrowed functioning going on here - when we met she was at risk of being told to take a hike by her main prof., and being with me played a huge role in her getting her act together - perhaps it was the motivation of wanting to see me, perhaps the motivation of seeing my 'intense' work habits. I don't know - but the point is, while her hard (very hard) work got her to the point she is, I made a lot of sacrifices along the way and always supported her efforts. I contributed a lot and the notion of her being so close to landing a solid gig while I feel like I am starting at square one just really gets me.. I have to work very hard not to fall into that trap. Those thoughts really start to consume me if I'm not careful. I start to feel angry and irritated about my place in the world and how I feel like I got used and walked on in her push to succeed.

I think this is a kind of attachment to an idea.. I'm sure she would view it differently. She probably doesn't see herself as someone who would just 'use' her husband and then discard him. I can't know what she sees it as, just that there is probably more than one way of looking at it.


So another issue on the horizon : She is going to be moving stuff out next Friday. I need to prepare for this, figure out how I want to react and respond to this experience. I don't know what to expect, but I suspect I might not like it so much!