My feelings are changing...sitch isn't

[beatrice]

Tad, the early anniversaries hurt tremendously. However, this year, divorced and nearly six years on, I actually forgot mine. I loved my h deeply [and a bit of me still does] but truly it gets better. I noted the date, but just didn't register that it was my anniversary until the next day.

I don't know whether you noted in Antonia's post her xh's typical MLC behaviour in failing to take responsibility and being a victim essentially his message was that 'whatever I do I can't win with you' Passive aggressive carried to the nth degree.

Short message: do not contact your wife, respond briefly if she initiates, you will feel bad, it does get better, eventually. Oh, and you are doing well. Hugs

[AJM]

My W said something similar before she moved out and after I had found out about the dating site: "The site seems like a different world or atleast another part of my life."

AJ, the "I'm right and your wrong mentality" very well could be an MLC thing, but my W has pretty much always been like that. That kind of makes me afraid that if she does wake up, she may be too proud to admit that she made a mistake and was wrong.

I had that same thought, Tad. Hard to say, but I think there as much said about that mentality since you posted this. I agree with much of it and even see some of me in it - the changing towards the negative person she is/was. No thanks, that's not for me.

Somebody else mentioned that their ex alluded to being a prisoner finally set free. Know what? In my case, I do kind of feel that way. My 20th was just recently. Two days before my stbx finally signed the sep papers. The day before I was served with D papers. Was it a little much to handle? It was. But I did not contact her. I don't contact her and only sometimes respond (not personal, I just don't pay much attention unless the kids are bleeding from an orifice or a limb falls off; by the time I think about responding I've often forgotten these days. That wasn't always the case of course...)
From what I've seen, the guilt is something they try hard to bury. That takes a lot of energy because they lash out at what isn't the problem. They put a lot of energy into this effort to the point of exhaustion. They forget things. They lose sight of things. They become selfish, biting, monsters. Part of the journey.

The friends thing? Your expectations of friends and hers are very different right now. You are hoping that friendship leads to something more and she is scared to death it might. See the dynamic?

My rule of thumb on that is that I don't have time in my life for jealous, petty, mean-spirited friends like my stbx has shown herself to be. She knows she is toward me and feels it is justified because of the things she made up about me. Nice eh? I've been distant from her to protect myself from that, Tad. I won't lie. I didn't move away from her soon enough. I didn't want to. Once I started however, I find that I really enjoy exploring who I really am and not who I am when she is around.

I didn't acknowledge my 20th with her either. I see no point in banging my head against the wall any longer. While I wish her the best, I have no desire to wallow in that world any longer.

AJ

[tadpole1025]

Thanks SC, Antonia, Punkin, Beatrice and AJ.

It will be tough, but I will not contact her on our anniversary. I contacted her on Valentine's Day because I thought it was the "right thing to do." I ended up getting a very nice text from her, but it broke my heart.

I am convinced that something in her head is just not "right." She usually contacts me and S16 on Wednesday or Thursday to let us know when she will be picking him up for the weekend. She usually picks him up on Friday or Saturday. It is now Noon on Saturday and neither one of us has heard a peep from her.

Something else: she mentioned to me a month ago that her brother will be in town next weekend. She said that she would like to take him and all of our boys out for a nice dinner. She hasn't mentioned anything to the boys yet. WTF? My youngest is 16 and oldest is 25. They usually have plans. S18 doesn't even want to go. (I mentioned it to him.)

Sometimes I wonder if she is withdrawing a bit or if depression is setting in. She seems to go through cycles. Didn't I read that some of the stages of MLC can occur together? I'm not sure exactly when the crisis began, but from what I can tell, she has been in Replay for about 16 months or at least close to that.

S16 told me last night that she recently said that I am to blame for the D. She told him that I wanted it so she gave it to me. I did say it once in anger when she told me that she wanted to sign a two-year lease in her new place. Once and of course she remembers it.

He also told me last night that lately when he is at her place, she always asks him "have you heard from your dad today?"

From what I've seen, the guilt is something they try hard to bury. That takes a lot of energy because they lash out at what isn't the problem. They put a lot of energy into this effort to the point of exhaustion. They forget things. They lose sight of things. They become selfish, biting, monsters. Part of the journey.

I'm beginning to think that things are starting to catch up with her. Has any one had a feeling or "intuition" about their spouse that turned out to be right? I get these sometimes. Don't know why.

Thanks for the advice and hugs.

Tad

[tadpole1025]

So, I'm a little down tonight.

W came to pick up S16 this evening. She told me again how done she is. How she feels nothing for me and probably never will.

This blows.

Maybe I should just give up.

Tad

[beatrice]

Tad, continue to think of her as a toddler. They say things over and over again to convince themselves, not you.

Grown up people tend to say things once, and they may repeat it if it hasn't gone in. Endless repetition is a sign that they are telling themselves a story, not you. This is not for you to pin your hopes on though, she sounds like she has a journey to make, and you are better off without her at present, hard as that is to believe. You are still hoping that the fog will clear and the 'old' person will emerge, and all will be well, like a bad dream.

That is not the way the MLC unrolls.

There is a lot of misconception about 'understanding' MLC. If you think of it like an illness: accept it exists, and that it has its pathology. You may find it useful to understand this. So for example, I got cancer a year ago. I didn't ask 'Why did I get cancer' but I did want to know about the type and what, if anything I could do about it, and how I could deal with it.

Your wife appears to be in MLc. She will do and say the most extraordinary things, because she is messed up. If you analyse what she does you will feel as if you are going nuts, but on the other hand, if you can recognise it as crazy MLC behaviour it may help you to tke it less personally.

The correct answer, if you have to respond, is "You have told me already."

[seeking answers]

Tad,

Beatrice is spot on. If the MLCer keeps repeating themselves like that, it is usually more to try and convince themselves of something.

What led your W to say this again to you? Did she just randomly blurt that out?

Tad, isn't there somewhere else you could be when she drops your son off? Even if it's in another part of the house, just don't be around when she comes by. Be busy with your life.

These interactions set you back. Why do you continue to have to see her when she comes by? Are you hoping she'll toss you some crumbs to hang your hope on?

Tad, your M to her is dead. To even have a chance of building a new one with her, if you so choose, you have to start from ground zero. Do you remember the man you were when you first met her? Were you needy and clingy back then? Did she have all the power in the relationship? Did you act like a whipped pup when you saw her waiting for her to pay attention to you?

Women are attracted to a confident man. Not arrogant, confident. Have you been able to pull PMA off when you see her? Can she see signs of you moving forward without her? (notice that I didn't say moving on)

What about being dressed up and smelling great when you drop your S off to her? Looking like you've obviously got plans? Being upbeat and happy about your life, with a friendly wave as you can't wait to get going? BTW, have some plans and something to look forward to.

Tad, the sooner you accept that MLC takes a very long time for the MLCer to navigate through, and stop analyzing every thing that your W says or does as a sign that you should either have hope or give up, the easier it is to get through this. Hope does not come from something outside anyway, it's what you either have or let go of from inside you. No one can either give it or take it away from you.

Some of them have to have their divorce. They believe that will be the magic key to happiness. I have heard many, many stories that they do come to regret it down the road and by the time they come to that realization, the LBS has moved on. Whether you've moved on or still have the door open will be your choice.

Stop looking for something that you think will finally wake her up. It happens on her time, not yours. Do not worry, you will definitely not miss it when it happens.

Let her have what she wants, you can't stop it anyway. Protect yourself and your kids to the extent that you can.

The consequences of her choices will be come apparent to her at some point. Reality has a very good way of making them known all on its own.

Please take your focus off of your W. She's on her own path. You have enough to do with the work and healing on you. Keep working on and aspiring to be the best Tad you can be, one that only a fool would leave.

[job]

Tad,
Both Beatrice and seeking have given you excellent advice. In fact that same advice has been repeated over and over again on your thread and others. Detach, focus on you and your children and now the new job.

Mlcers have to repeat things over and over again to convince themselves and others that they are doing the right thing. Somewhat like the story "Green Eggs and Ham". Until they face their demons and come to understand that what happened to them long ago isn't their fault and finally understand that happiness comes from within, they'll continue to act like three year olds.

It took your wife a very long time to get to where she is today and it's going to take a while for her to work through her issues and who knows who she will be at the end of her journey, i.e., maybe the same person, but more settled, a different individual w/some traits of the person you knew, or someone totally different. That transformation will be a very long time down the road. In the meantime, time doesn't stand still and who knows...you may rediscover the person that you were a long time and ago and begin enjoying life once again. Hobbies and that list you put aside because you never had time will suddenly look inviting to you and you'll start checking the items off of that list.

No matter what you do, you must keep the focus on you and what you can control. Your wife is a very lost and confused individual and you do not need to go down into the dark hole with her. Leave her be, allow the comments she makes to roll off your back. Misery loves company and it's evident she's pulling you right into her pitty pot with her. Stop the cycle and start living your life as if she's not going to return.

[AJM]

I'm quite sure, Tad, that snodderly's advice to live your life as if she isn't going to return sounds...harsh to your ears right now.
But look back and see that you have been getting the same, consistent advice from many on this board/thread for a long time. There's a reason for that, Tad. It's what people have been pointing out to you that you have not yet seen. The sooner you detach, the better. If you do not you delay things longer. If you do, things may take a long time but they continue as needed.
Focus on you, Tad. It's time.

I forgot to ask: what is the job you will be doing?

AJ

[tadpole1025]

Good advice as always everyone. Thank you. It is funny. I have good days, average days and really bad days. The really bad days are when I see or hear from her. She's already contacted me today about something that she wants back because it belonged to her parents.

W: Will you bring me the Monopoly game? It was my parents.

M: Sure. I'll have it ready on Sunday.

W: Thank you. We don't have very many games over here. We are playing Crazy Eights right now.

M: Well, you can take more if you want.

No response.

There were a lot of questions asked of me above and I will try to answer them.

First, AJ I will be working in the Order Processing department for a MAJOR online retailer. I'm excited for it to begin.

On to the the more difficult stuff:

Misery loves company and it's evident she's pulling you right into her pitty pot with her.

You are absolutely right Snodderly. For some reason, I keep getting sucked right back in. It is just hard hearing the comments coming from a woman that used to love me so much. Letting them roll off my back is sometimes easier said than done.

What led your W to say this again to you? Did she just randomly blurt that out?

Yeah Seeking. She pretty much did.

Tad, isn't there somewhere else you could be when she drops your son off? Even if it's in another part of the house, just don't be around when she comes by. Be busy with your life.

Well to be honest, I want to be at the house because she always insists on coming in. Funny though that I'm not allowed in hers. Months ago she made the comment that she'll never step another foot in here. Now, she insists on coming in. I've tried being in another part of the house numerous times, but you know what? She always seeks me out.

Do you remember the man you were when you first met her? Were you needy and clingy back then? Did she have all the power in the relationship? Did you act like a whipped pup when you saw her waiting for her to pay attention to you?

Well, I'm having a hard time with this because to be honest, when we met I wasn't a man. I was just 16. So damn young. I do know that I was always trying to impress her or make her laugh.

Have you been able to pull PMA off when you see her? Can she see signs of you moving forward without her? (notice that I didn't say moving on)

I've been trying. As for her seeing signs, I can't answer that.

What about being dressed up and smelling great when you drop your S off to her? Looking like you've obviously got plans? Being upbeat and happy about your life, with a friendly wave as you can't wait to get going?

I've been doing this a lot more. Not sure if she has noticed or even wants to notice.

I know a divorce is just a piece of paper, but I sure hope it doesn't come to that. It is sad that some of them feel they need the divorce.

Our mediation is Wednesday. Ug.

I can look back and remember all of the things that she has said and done over the last several months and realize that yeah, she really is just done.

Then....

I can look back and remember all of the things that she has said and done over the last several months and realize that yeah, she really is just crazy.

MLC or no MLC?

Sometimes I just don'tknow.

Tad

[AntoniaB]

If she follows you to wherever you are in the house/seeks you out, then do not be there when she comes. Think of like this: you're in a really deep pit, and you are trying to climb out on a ladder. Every time she says "I'm done" or something like that, you fall a few rungs (or a lot of rungs) backwards. You're not getting anywhere because you're giving her total access to you. Didn't we all talk about facebook weeks ago? You said you'd think about defriending/blocking. Have you done that? It's like you're saying "here I am, hurt me some more" by being there, by answering all these texts, by seeing her on facebook, and whatever else.

I don't want to come off as mean but I guess this is a 2 x 4 from me: I don't see you doing one thing to protect yourself from her onslaught of criticism and craziness. I don't think you're believing those of us who have been through this and who know the way this MLC stuff plays out. You're putting more trust in HER to "save" you from your pain than in the collective experience and wisdom of the people here.

That is, of course, your choice. But the consequences of your choice are terribly detrimental to your emotional health.

She hurt you when she left you, but you're hurting yourself the most right now. I know that's hard to hear, but inability to detach is a form of self-hurt, and it takes a conscious effort from you and only you to detach and insulate yourself.