Yeah I get confused too. One day she'll be totally excited, the next not so. I know she is dealing with a lot of conflicting feelings. My W had always claimed bi too but it wasn't an issue until our m started hitting the rocks. when did the m start "hitting the rocks" and what changed? What was the m like Before the disclosure or behavior changes and what were those specific changes? Why do you believe it happened?
I've tried to wrestle with the issue of why women now after all these years.
1. This is her version of an EA/PA. Like many WAW's there's a certain thrill in the chase. If I give her time it may fizzle out, or maybe never even come to fruition. How long has this been going on?
2. This is an integral part of who she is, and we work out a way in which this makes both our sex lives together and apart better. I have no idea how what^^^ that even means, or how it makes any sense or if you're kidding yourself...but okay.... ... All I know is that it's out of my hands for now. She needs to discover what she wants and then I need to decide if and how I want to be a part of it.
GB,
Here are some things you don't seem to want to look at, but I have to comment about. I'll start with saying you're wrong to assume I'd simply say "let her go"....but you should let her grow.
Every time you take responsibility for one of her mood changes or outbursts, you enable her to blame you, again...
You had an event in which she had drinks and you did not. She knew this.
It's almost a choreographed fight that she directed and structured for you to feel like crap about...lose lose for you.
You said:
Ok so W has a few too many drinks, while I being the DD had none. She is clearly in a better mood than I am, and starts pestering me all night of why am I not in a good mood.
She then kisses me passionately I try to make out back, and she pushes me away. Ok based on everything that has happened, NOW I'm not in a good mood. Either way I know it's pointless to argue with someone with a few too many, so I still try to let it slide. Still pestering me about why am I not "drunk happy" like she is. I finally snap and tell her in the gentlest way possible. I just feel frustrated because I have been wanting you for a week.
Her response: Why?! I gave you permission to go get a local girl. Why would you want me I'm worthless.
It then broke into a conversation where she kept demanding that I tell her the truth. She kept asking why would you want me when you can have a local girl?! I would give her a ton of reasons, none of which would be good enough. I could tell all she wanted to hear was that I wanted a local girl. Which is far from the truth. I LOVE my wife which is why I post here. Sigh...
she just came back and threw some of my stuff around, I'll have to finish this later...(END)
Wow GB...yes I know she later picked up the stuff she threw and apologized for that. Yay...but that is some seriously destructive choreographed stuff she does.
She is sabotaging the marriage deliberately, in many ways. But this one is a biggie...
B/C WHILE she denies you sex quite often (since you first posted, withholding sex has always been her main weapon of choice) she then insists you secretly want other women....WOW. No matter what, you get to feel like dirt...And
she sure is behaving in a way to pressure you to do just that. That way, YOU are still responsible for the failure of the marriage.
You'll either leave her, "cheat on her", or do something she can point to, to justify what she does next. And since she won't get help, all you do is "hope" that won't happen.
I'm with Starsky in that "hope" is not a plan.
And waiting around to see where she goes, while she overtly mistreats you, is unhealthy and to me, sad.
IMO, you need to change YOUR behavior and stop tolerating her nonsense. If she has a psychiatric condition, (and your posts to 9 suggests you have been exposed to some woman with it) then tell us, so we know how to help.
Otherwise, I just see weird cruel behaviors on her part, e.g., manipulation, tantrums, and a ton of other unhealthy behaviors. And you seem to just watch it, or implore her to stop. And she isn't stopping GB...
One recent "good talk" that gives you hope that all the issues are resolved so now you can be happy... has already happened on your threads here about 10 times...remember, it's a roller coaster. She created it, she runs it. But you can get off if you want. (Is there some part of you that likes the drama of this? Just asking.)
For me, the worst thing I've heard of all your posts (& this is important)
was when she called you at work to say she was "in the mood for ML" (finally...) and wanted you to leave early, to come home...
only to "change her mind" when you arrived....that's just so UNacceptable Gb.
AND imo, it's cruel...
I would never, ever do that to ANY man, least of all the man I married.
Absolutely UNacceptable, outrageous behavior. And, tbh, I don't get it.
YAH, your advice to GB is kind and loving. It's perfect advice to give a man with a functioning woman who simply has low sex drive, feels confused by that, but knows that at some level she does love her h and feels committed to him.
I just don't see how it ALL applies here. Some does, and Some of it does make GB a better man, but there are a lot of things in the other advice GB is getting that he ignores,
[i]b/c he can count on you to put a positive spin on what is clearly NOT working.[/i]
GB, by letting your apparent terror of losing a woman you barely are married to, paralyze you into simply watching as she or tosses your things around, isn't making you more attractive to her.
Your approach is NOT working my friend. It's simply a continuation of the roller coaster she has you on.
Oh, regarding --"the eggs you didn't like event"--Cooking is a love of mine and it's a love language of mine. I want feedback from h when I cook. If he's tactless, I say so.
But The event you mentioned wherein she pressed for your feedback of the eggs she cooked you, with a new spice she added (dried fish is definitely an acquired taste) which you don't like,
AND which she over added b/c she didn't taste it, so you finally confessed it tasted like soap...would have gotten me to at least taste the dang eggs!!
But instead, she stormed around and slammed things down, stomping and fuming.
Um, While this went on, you did what? Watch her? Apologize for answering her pushy need for more specific feedback? Her behavior is that of a spoiled adolescent who is out of control...and she's allowed to be.
You took the blame for her behavior again, b/c you weren't perfect in your response. I don't understand how you are at fault for HER response. If you were rude to her (a gross overstatement) why is it alright for her to escalate the event into another tantrum? So could she throw paint around and break windows too? Are there ANY limits on her behavior towards you? Seriously, I'm curious as to what those might be. Having sex with OPs isn't off limits, neither is berating you, tossing your things around, the inability to support YOUR life & dreams or worries b/c she doesn't want to talk about money or difficult things so she threatens you with porn, etc. so again I ask, what exactly can she NOT do?
That tantrum behavior outweighs any possible deficit in your feedback....and it's another dynamic you don't seem to recognize as being so dysfunctional.
While it's Not your fault, you do keep enabling & tolerating it.
If my h were to do that, I'd leave the room or house.
Just tell her to calm down, act like a rational adult or you'll leave the house. Then do that.
You have a job and interests other than how she's treating you that hour, right?
We all want to help you. I don't know what will "make" your w feel or act differently.
But what you are doing so far, has only perpetuated the cycle of her behaviors. Remember how the move was going to fix things?
God that's so familiar to me when I recall the military divorces we saw that were more or less delayed, or had to be done in other countries b/c a move was coming up. They avoided real work on their m's b/c "hey, we're about to move and don't want to rock the boat" but the boat was sinking. Moving it doesn't fix it.
The move has NOT improved things. She was bored in the small town you were in before, and she blamed you for that.
Now she blames you for secretly wanting the local girls, and insisting you do OR that you should...and still using sex as her fav weapon with you.
She's in total exclusive control of your sex life.
Since marriage is made up of 2 people, how can that make either of you happy in the long run? It can't.
Stop just "taking" this. If she has another tantrum, and she will,
Leave the house after one warning about her need to talk like a rational adult.
Next time you need to discuss money and she whips out her threat to do porn or "find some guy to pay for things"
(b/c for some reason she's not capable of supporting herself--also a way for her self esteem to stay low)
tell her it's off topic and unfair/manipulative. Leave if she repeats it. Bottom line--we know her self esteem stinks. You cannot fix it. And She won't get help...so, again, what's the plan?
You HOPE she'll figure it out and while she may not, ever, you will....wait.
But see,
Your "wait & see" approach has only resulted in the same roller coaster continuing, but with a new ugly component about local girls... I accept that your version of m isn't mine, and that's alright. But you are not happy. That matters, doesn't it?
Your present way of relating isn't a successful one. Never mind healthy.
The sooner you realize that, the sooner you can change it into a healthy successful one.
Maybe you can get a local chaplain or c to talk to for YOU. I know your w won't go.
(Sure She's acting like her estranged mother -the primary role model for loving expressions- and she knows her mom was VERY deficient in expressing love, but she won't get help...still you think that she'll heal herself?)
Ironicially, your wife sounds so unhappy with herself, (and thinks sex with other people might fix that??)
So for the life of me, why won't she talk to someone?
Why can't YOU take the lead in the marriage's progress and have ONE expectation of her, i.e., that she talk to someone? How is that unreasonable? (Heck, that way She doesn't have to talk to YOU about it!)
But if you do get a c for YOU, & she sees some changes in your own happiness and a reduction on your dependence on her for that, (b/c sometimes I see a lot of co-dependence in you, food for thought)
having your own c, you'd have an in person c to talk to so you don't have to go through all this so far away from home, feeling alone. And GB, know that You are not alone.
I continue to wish you health, peace & happiness.
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
Read your post digested. Then tried to do the hugging till relaxed exercise. It went as expected, she was very awkward the whole time but then seemed to calm down, for my benefit I think. I took a couple of minutes to discuss to her how she felt, and what this could possibly mean.
It was going well until I said we would try again tomorrow. She then told me that she didn't believe in it and even if she had unresolved issues it would be better if we just left it alone. I told her it was these issues that were making things so hard, and she said it was no problem she liked things the way they were.
I was partially shocked by her statement but not surprised since it is harder to overcome your troubles than to just live with the misery. I told her I was very disappointed with the fact she didn't even want to try. She then did a 180 lost her temper and started saying she was leaving tomorrow. She got on the rollercoaster again, said she was leaving, and locked herself in the master bedroom.
Trying to follow your advise and that of country strong and starky. Trying to stay calm while she stews in the bedroom. (I think she is destroying my copy of PM). When she gets out I will be strong and tell her that enough is enough. That I love her, but will no longer tolerate her destroying things. If she does not care to work on us then she can move on.
I'm not going to lie, I'm scared. Yet I AM tired of living like this.
I know I'm in a different time zone so everyone is probably in bed.
Here's what I plan to say
W you know I love you more than anything in the world, but lately our fights have gotten more violent, and more destructive. I will not tolerate this. I really want for us to be happy but this is not the way to do it. Many things will have to change if this is going to work.
Honestly I think this is about as far as I'm going to get before she explodes. Any comments, ideas, suggestions, 2x4's ?
My advice is don't sugar coat it. Tell her what you want and if she doesn't feel that she can give that to you, then you ARE going to do "this". No attitude, no assholeness, just an attitude of this is how I'm going to proceed from here on. Then lead your life. If she wants to be with you, she will. Believe this.
Just gonna throw this out there right now, 'cause someone's gonna say it...
You think you need to remind her, yet again... that you love her?
I'm just keeping with what seems to be a theme right now.
What's worked, what hasn't? This is NOT advice nor do I recommend this, but what do you think her reaction would be if you actually DID go out and find a local girl. But really, what if you didn't but she THOUGHT you did?
IOW, what can you do now, that would be a huge 180 that could stick and not be harmful? Something she might notice? Something that would benefit you and something that she is REALLY looking for, that will be hugely attractive to her?
Well I haven't had the chance to say what I was planning to say she is holed up in the room. I am still inside the house, for reasons I can't say without divulging where I am. (you know the whole privacy issue) otherwise I would have left already.
Yeah right now I'm really into the PM books by sncharch. This really feels like my crucible. Need to learn to be independent, to stop seeking validation from her. Just took sometime to meditate, and deal with my own demons.
You really need to understand that as a man you need to not be scared of losing THIS. You need to know, that you will be okay with YOUR decision.
This $h!t is abusive man, and until you realize you are okay without this, there isn't much advice in the world to give you. I wish you luck, but don't let the fear of her saying "it's over" ever dictate your happiness.
Until you stand for what you want, she will never respect you.
You really need to understand that as a man you need to not be scared of losing THIS. You need to know, that you will be okay with YOUR decision. This $h!t is abusive man, and until you realize you are okay without this, there isn't much advice in the world to give you. I wish you luck, but don't let the fear of her saying "it's over" ever dictate your happiness.
Until you stand for what you want, she will never respect you.
thank GOD someone else said this^^^ too....
There's a book called "CoDependent No More" and others say it's helped them. You have some serious dependency on a woman that does not treat you well (sorry, but cooking you some eggs and "allowing" sex now & then, is not the same as having a real marriage partner. Have you had healthy R's with women before?)
Somehow you talk as if you are in a real marriage that's just hitting a "rough patch", and you have posted to others about having mentally unstable wives (but you never declared that here) and you post to others about being in "piecing" but
to me, you are not in "piecing" b/c you are in a nearly constant state of marital crisis.
Anyone whose spouse threatens to end the m if you don't allow her to berate you, or who throws your things around but threatens to end the marriage if you leave the room/house, is not in "piecing" (and has ZERO conflict resolution skills)
NOT threatening to end the marriage as a weapon used during conflict, is sort of a condition of piecing in my mind.... oh, and she "doesn't believe" therapy helps so she won't get help...
...sorry.
So, as KD asked, what 180 can YOU do that might wake her up?
Otherwise, your posts are mostly, (not all but mostly) more of the same old.
You have to change something in your behavior, soon.
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
