My feelings are changing...sitch isn't

[Mach1]

I don't know Tad....

Why do YOU constantly do this to yourself ?


The answer to your question, was answered by AJ, myself, and others, on your last thread....and all throughout your other threads...

It makes me wonder if you are reading what is posted to you. I know that I have asked you questions that you haven't answered.



It is MLC.....


Tad, until you get off the hamster wheel you are on, and let yourself stop spinning in circles, you are going to run against this wall, time and time again...


Congrats on the job !!!

That is one step toward YOUR future, and hopefully, it will allow you stop letting the reality of your situation monopolize your thoughts...

[AntoniaB]

When people here say you have to "dig deep" into yourself for answers, it's because of situations like these where the anguish you feel is coming from what you initiate and "make happen" by pushing the relationship talk which invariably ends up going south. A couple of days ago you said something like "she specializes in hurting me and I specialize in letting her." I think you need to really think about what you're saying here. You not even just letting her, you're driving her to hurt you more, because rather than saying simply that she's still going through the divorce, which is bad enough, you're pushing her to say more specific hurtful things.

Why are you driving her to do this? Do you get some sort of payoff for being the victim?

I'm asking you this because many good people on this board got me to understand that I was doing the same thing for a time. Why was I holding onto the role of the victim? The one being torn apart constantly? Because I was too AFRAID to not be the victim. I was too scared to stand up and be without my XH. I was too scared to envision living without him ever again. As long as I could play the role of the victim, I didn't have to do "the work" to become entirely independent of him.

I am not assuming this is what you're doing, but if you bang your head against a wall repeatedly even though you know you shouldn't, and you are being hurt badly and you STILL do it, you have to search for why you're doing so, and sometimes, the reason is that you are afraid to really face life without her if that is what she wants.

It is a terribly scary thought to face life without your spouse, yes. But to me, this speaks of codependency. I'm not saying we shouldn't be grieving and mourning for the loss of our spouses. But to be SO AFRAID to have them out of our lives that we do whatever we have to to "keep the conversation going" even when it is tearing us apart, Tad, that's a fear of being without them that is unhealthy and dysfunctional and codependent.

You are not a bad person at all. You just have a need/addiction to her that is unhealthy for you, because you're willing to flay yourself, so to speak, just to keep her texting or on the phone. And you didn't get this way without her encouraging it. So both of you have a role here.

Maybe I'm really wrong about this, and this does not describe you in any way, but I've read a ton of books on this stuff, journaled, and spent hours on this board getting help from people, and often we stay on that hamster wheel because we are so afraid to get off.

You went out and found yourself a job at a terrible time in your life. That means you have TONS of strength. You have to turn that strength inward and use it to overcome the fear of her really leaving your life.

[tadpole1025]

Thanks again everybody.

Yes. Yep. Yeah. I know.....

Perhaps I do need to read the Pursuit and Distance thread again.

In talking with my husband, they are lost and confused in a storm of confusion and despair. They don't know what the hell they're doing, thinking, saying etc.

Really? She seems awfully damn sure of herself.

You asked for this convo and you got it. Just know that if it had been a different day or time the words from your W may have been different because MLCer's are emotion driven.

I know. I did it to myself.

Your W had only one day to process what you two had talked about the day before. Why, with all you've learned, did you feel that you had to go and push it the very next day?

I guess because I was thinking that our conversation the day before was good. Like an idiot, I opened it up again.

It makes me wonder if you are reading what is posted to you. I know that I have asked you questions that you haven't answered.

I do read them Mach. Sometimes 2 or 3 times. If there was a question that I didn't answer, it must be because I missed it. It was not deliberate.

You not even just letting her, you're driving her to hurt you more, because rather than saying simply that she's still going through the divorce, which is bad enough, you're pushing her to say more specific hurtful things.

Yeah. I guess I was just hoping that our talk we had sunk in a little bit. I asked for it and I got it.

There is just so much that I still don't understand. She says that she wants to work on our frienship even after the D. Isn't that sort of cake eating?

Should I just let this thing happen without putting up a fight for my marriage?

It is funny sometimes. I know she is not the same. I know she is confused. I know she is crazy. I know she has issues. I just want to help her before she does anymore damage. Believe me, she has done a lot.

Does she even realize what she is doing?

I wrote her a very nice email last night. I did not send it. I'm guessing I shouldn't right? I'll just get a response that I don't need to hear right?

This MLC crap (if that's what it is) just blows.

I thought about reminding her that it only took about 2 weeks for her to go from wanting to marry me again to joining an internet dating site.

I wish she could see how everything looks to us normal people.

So I'm just supposed to let this thing happen? If I act like I'm okay with it, doesn't that just give her more justification?

Tad

[Queen_of_Swords]

Tad, I realised the other day. That in trying to make STBX "see" things in a realitic way I was in fact:

a) increasing his feelings of guilt
b) increasing his feelings of being blamed
c) NOT succeeding in making him sense or even in the same way I do.
d) increasing the emotional distance between us.

You can't make a crazy person see they're crazy, and we can't do a freaking thing to make our spouses see sense.
To them we're nuts, we're the bad guys.
The best thing you can do is become emotionally healthy so in the event when they do have a lightbulb moment you are capable of seeing it and allowing them to move closer...if by that time you still want them, crazy and all.

[job]

Congratulations on the job! Now, you need to focus on getting ready to go to work.

I agree w/the other posters, the conversation should have ended after the questions/answers about the property. You are setting yourself up to be slam dunked every time.

MLC is about confusion and their minds are pinging off the walls. Nothing is real and rational for them. YOU CAN'T HELP HER!!!!

Prepare yourself for the worse and hope for the best. You don't have to be okay w/what she's doing, but you sure as heck can't stop her from feeling the way that she does. That's why it is important to leave them be and let them go. They have to heal on their time and not ours. Who is to say that 5 years down the road, she'll come running back to you? No one knows the answer to this questions. It is all up to her and the man above. This is why it is important for you to keep the focus on yourself.

[AJM]

To say you have some good advice and perspective here, is an understatement.

Congrats on the job Tad. Really, you did a great job.

And pat yourself on the back for having a conversation with your W for 1.5 hours. Many would kill for less than that. I think it took a lot of courage for you to do that.

But it strikes me that you have your answer even if you don't like it. She said she felt like she had to run far away. She did, right? She is not willing to go back to "that" place. I doubt you blame her for that; you don't want to go back to pain either. But what really comes out in that is that it is NOT about you. Don't you see that, Tad? She left because she didn't know what else to do. She is lost and confused regardless of how "sure" she seems of herself.

You asking her to talk about the relationship? She gave you an answer and told you how tired she was. She told you how she sweated blood over this. Does that sound like somebody who is sure or somebody who wants the pain to stop?

My thoughts? You are sorry she feels that way, and wish her well in her new life. As for you, I suspect you won't be able to have conversations and be friends with her at this point. Constant conversation can make it difficult when you are in pain. To show you care makes it harder for her. Sounds weird doesn't it?

Think about those things as you process this Tad. It is not about you. That's clear. That means that the things she blames you for are...well cr*p. And excuses. But only she can address the issues she has. You cannot. You can decide if you're going to stand or not. And what that means in terms of action.

Step back and look at the entire situation Tad. Start by knowing you aren't perfect, but it wasn't about you or your perfections or imperfections. Realize you can't change it and let go of that trying to change it. It only hurts you both more. She knows how you feel. She doesn't know how she feels. She says BS regardless most likely in an attempt to make herself feel better. It is what it is. But you need to be strong for you Tad. For your boys. Possibly for later if she decides to come back and if you still want that when or if that happens. Work on you now Tad.

AJ

[tadpole1025]

Thanks everyone. Despite today's event I had a pretty decent day today.

We were both given papers to fill out for our mediation coming up next Wednesday. This past Monday, she told me that she would send me a list of all of her debt so I could fill out my share of the paperwork. I waited all day Tuesday and never got it. Today I got a copy of her papers in the mail and it didn't even have her debt listed! It was a court order that she supply it. I honestly believe that she thinks that she is above the law. Sometimes I think that this has a lot to do with money. I get the feeling that she wants to be debt free and is going to throw as much onto me as she can.

I know that I have changed just by my response today. When I got the paper in the mail, it really p!ssed me off. I was so close to sending her a really nasty text. I almost did it. Finally I thought to myself "why bother?" It wouldn't do any good. I didn't send the text. The "old" me would have. THAT my friends is a positive change. Now I'm like "whatever. It is what it is."

I have not spoken to her for a few days and I'm hoping that I don't anytime soon.

AJ, you said:

She is lost and confused regardless of how "sure" she seems of herself.

Yeah, she does seem sure that she really wants a D, but on the other hand, I can also see how confused and lost she is. She does some really weird stuff. She says some pretty strange stuff as well. I can get so depressed about her being so sure of things, but then I'll read something that convinces me she is crazy. It almost makes me feel a little better about myself if I believe that she is sick and has this crazy thing we call MLC. I just hope that she comes out of it someday.

The anger that she shows towards me is just unbelievable. I've never seen anything like it. I'm sure a lot of you on this board know exactly what I am talking about. It really is vicious. I guess it makes sense though because I think that I read on Heartsblessing's thread that Replay and Anger can overlap. I've never seen so much anger from anyone. It makes my jaw drop sometimes when I experience it. I almost feel sorry for her. It must really be terrible walking around that angry all the time.

I wish my job would hurry up and start. It is going to be hard work, but I'm looking forward to it. I need to move forward with my life and get this crap off of my mind. Need to be occupied. I'm starting to get anxious to start work and move to a new place with my boys. I can not tell you how much closer we are now. That is probably the best thing that has come out of this so far. I almost feel like thanking her. Matter of fact, last night at about 3am, S18 comes into my bedroom to see if I was awake. We ended up talking about all sorts of things for over an hour. I'm glad that he knows he can come talk to me and shoot the bull with me. I don't think that would have ever happened before all of this crap started. The boys and I have really great relationships these days. I think it might be because even though this has almost killed me, I'm doing my best to keep things normal for them. I also feel bad for W because I know how much she is missing out on with our boys.

I had a lot of old memories flood my mind today. They make me happy, but they also make me very very sad.

Nothing else much to report except..........

TOMORROW IS LITTLE FRIDAY!

Have a good one.

Tad

[job]

Tad,
Most mlcers want a divorce, but can't or won't do the work. For example, your w didn't provide you with the listing of her debt. I wasn't surprised to read that she didn't do what she was instructed to do. However, I am very pleased that you didn't contact her about it. She's a big girl and she will need to face the consequences of her actions all by her herself. The only thing that you have to worry about is being prepared for your response. That's it.

I'm very happy to see that you are ready to go to work and it will help keep your mind focused on something else. Your children are growing up and time doesn't stand still for any of us. Enjoy every minute that you spend w/them.

The tides are changing for you and your ship is sailing in a new direction. Go w/the flow and see where it takes you.

[tadpole1025]

Thank you very much Snodderly.

Most mlcers want a divorce, but can't or won't do the work. For example, your w didn't provide you with the listing of her debt.

While this may be true and with the exception of the debt, she has done all of the work. It took her a while to finally file, but she did do it.

I'm also wondering if her anger at me and the slow reconnecting with our boys is because things aren't as great with the OM as they were. I've had that feeling for a while now.

I've noticed that she can be nice as pie one day and then mean as a snake the next time I see her. I've also noticed that when I see her at her house, she looks absolutely miserable. She puts on a happy face when she is at mine.

Just posting thoughts and observations...:)

Tad

[AntoniaB]

Tad you sound really good.

The fact that she puts on the happy face at your house to me is almost to be expected. My XH told me it was extremely hard for him to be at "our" house (mine now, he hasn't been there since I bought him out on the mortgage)because all around him was evidence of what he gave up and what he was risking for the OW/other life. There was something he said every time he saw me at the house during the divorce proceedings: "I can't live in two worlds." One time he actually said to me "I had no idea you would change so much in such a short time. But I can't live in two worlds." I'm not trying to mind-read but he said that after learning that I had done a bunch of 180s on the very things he complained that I'd never change--but I did.

I think in my house, he felt regret that he pushed away successfully elsewhere. So generally, I'd see the fakest display of happiness ever when he was there, which to me makes sense, because it's the place where all around is evidence of the comfort and the good things, the home, and family, that he left. To keep from falling apart, he would put on a big act.

I bet your wife may be doing the same thing. It's part of the whole "I'm right and I know it" mentality.