One last thing, I really have no choice in the D. It was filed before I was even told. I didn't get a chance to wait it out or be there to support my wife through it. She tossed me away like trash and treated me like something less than that. I doubt I will be able to maintain my resolve as long as I have those things fresh in my memory. I'm going to end up divorced without even being given a chance.
I can only say that it is not unusual for it to happen this way. It is only a piece of paper, and it takes two people to get divorced. I know lots of people that are divorced and reconcilling with their spouses. The key to it at this point is to LET GO and believe in the MLC process.
Hey T. Whether this is your field or not, whether you talk to a thousand women who have gone through it, it's tough stuff. Hard to get your mind around.
I've been around a long time. I stay around to help in any way I can because I would not have made it through without many of the people who are posting to you now.
You will get amazing support from the people on here. And we understand what you are going through because we have walked it.
But it is best to not limit yourself to the help of others by only listening to those going through it now or those who have reconciled.
Now as much as I know you want to be able to put this into a simple diagnosis, it cannot be. And the reason is, you cannot possibly know what your wife is feeling.
While it is important to try to understand MLC, it's really not possible to fully understand it unless you've had one.
So, I feel it's best to begin to learn what you need to do in order to survive it.
And you can do that without putting a label on it and evaluating it.
I know that you are angry and confused and hurt. The rug was pulled out from under you. Those are all normal feelings.
You are going to be going through your own steps on this journey. Steps very similar to the grieving process. Disbelief, anger, etc.
It is important to work through each one. And then it is equally important to let it go. Especially anger. You will find it saps your energy and eventually weighs you down.
It is also important not to be reactive. Sit with something for a day before saying it or acting on it.
T, you have some decisions to make. If you decide to stand, it aint for the faint of heart. It's a tough road to walk.
If you decide that this is the path you are going to take, then, it is best to accept that this is a journey she was meant to go on. And if you love her unconditionally, you need to let her take it.
In some ways, each of the guys was correct in their interpretation of what I wrote.
Like Jack, I too worry about the "smart" people...
And Mach was correct, that comment was a bit disturbing to me...
Cadet, well we have had our go 'rounds regarding the whole MLC/menopause thing...
I am sorry that you felt attacked although I can see how you would feel that way. I am straight forward and I do not believe in sugarcoating anything.
You need to develop a bit thicker skin if you are going to survive this MLC though.
There is nothing I or anyone here could say to you that will compare with the spew that could (if it hasn't already) come from your W.
DB techniques are very important in the survival of this to avoid the bitterness that you speak of.
It is my wish for everyone that comes here, that if they do D and move on, they can do it in a healthy emotional way and if they reconcile (or move on to a new R), they have developed the skills to have a GREAT new relationship.
Even if you reconcile, it will not be the old marriage, but a new one.
So what I said to you, was not to minimize your profession or your pain, it was to simply get you, for a minute, out of the mindset of a therapist. Because I saw you very quickly getting stuck.
DB 101--have a Beginner's Mind.
Those of us who come here with an education into the workings of the mind, seem to think we can find the answers in one of our books or theories. I wish it were that easy.
Personally, I believe that there is no empirical evidence of Life Crisis, because each one is as different as it is similar. Hence many different definitions of it. It is long term. It is not biological. (Although it can be exasperated by hormones.)
I do not believe, based on the personal experiences that I have read and what I have lived, it is rooted in hormones. It is much deeper than that.
I watched you pointing to perimenopause as if that might be a rational explanation for her losing her mind. With MLC, the rational explanation really isn't there. With MLC, the logical becomes illogical and the illogical begins to make perfect sense.
We can understand components of MLC--depression, avoidance, coping skills (or lack of), hormones, but to understand the Monster part, is much harder. Although to be honest, I believe it is the anger part of it all.
MLCers have poorly developed coping skills. They project, they run, they avoid looking within for the answers, but that is where they will find them. That is the ONLY place they will find them.
The LBS, while we didn't cause the MLC, we do have to own our parts in our relationships. None of us was the perfect spouse. There are things we could have done differently and it is our responsiblity to work on that while they take their journey.
The best chance you have at being the Lighthouse that she will look to, is by becoming a better man.
As Mach said, your definition of success will change as you go through this. Right now, you want a reconciled M more than anything. That is what you view as successful.
I read that you also are going to be D, because she is pushing it through so quickly. You will probably never understand that. She will probably never truly understand what is motivating her. Some have to have their divorce. Some of them never file. That has very little to do with their real feelings about you or the marriage.
And it should not be the determining factor on YOUR choice to stand or not.
The focus, needs to be on you. And on your children. Your W, has to walk her own path for now. You can't save her or protect her from herself without getting burned. I know it doesn't sound right, and I know how heartbreaking it can be to watch...
Learn about MLC from a Beginner's Mind, not a therapists mind.
Ask questions, vent, be patient with yourself, and please understand, that no one here posts from malice or vindictivness. Just experience.
And I should say, I do tend to be a little bit blunt. I am pretty ok with that.
Originally Posted By: Thundarr
I don't claim to be different in any way, but in a way we all are. We are in the percentile that has to deal with this in their lives when others are blessed with families that are not put through this Hell. I pray we will all be rewarded one day.
One last thing...
I wouldn't wish this on my worst enemy but I can also tell you I wouldn't trade this experience for the world.
God gives us what we can handle. He puts things infront of us so that we learn what we need to. When we learn those lessons, we are rewarded.
It may not look like what we envisioned, but we are rewarded.
Peace
"Acceptance doesn't mean resignation. It means understanding that something is what it is and there's got to be a way through it."--Michael J. Fox
Cat, I have to say you are all they gave you credit for and more. I've posted on several different boards and I have to say that is the most comprehensive and to the point post I think I've seen yet. I tend to be blunt as well, and re-reading your previous post along with your explanation made me really see what you meant and I feel bad I took offense. It's a lonely Friday night and I'm not used to those yet. I have heard the spew and equate it to something pulled from the bowels of Hell. I've been on this rollercoaster for at least two months and have seen the high ups and the low downs, but I know they could get worse. Despite all this, something happened this very evening that has me very upset. In fact, I'm man enough to admit that I'm crying as I write this. I would appreciate any comments on tonight's events that I can get as this has been a low point for me in this journey that I have only just begun. Here is my story from tonight:
She was here when I got home tonight watching the kids. She followed me into the kitchen and started talking about work stuff and asked me about my promotion. I had not planned on telling her, but didn't want to lie to her so I told her that I got it. She brightened up and smiled alot and told me she was very proud of me. If she wasn't happy for me she's a better actress than I've ever seen in my life. She asked me several questions about the job and seemed genuinely interested.
Then, she informed me that she had went by the lawyer's office and they didn't have anything made up yet but would next week. She informed me that what she was drafting was the Separation Agreement. She said it was probably a prelude to the D but wasn't sure (I don't think it is, and I had asked for one of these weeks ago and she had never done one). My understanding is that she could have went right for the D since it had been over two months that we've been separated but I'm not going to read into this. I took STP's advice and posed the question of how she will be better off divorced than married. She calmly discussed feeling less pressured and said that things have built up over the years. She said that when she painted the kitchen last Fall it was therapeutic but she needed more. She said she didn't feel that she could be creative with me because of financial issues and that I voted no on alot of things she wanted to do (in hindsight, I did, and I ended up picking out most of the furniture in here. She said she hated that our house looked like a bachelor pad, and said that was about 1/15th of the problem and that things had built up. I told her I was sorry she felt she couldn't be creative as well as being sorry she felt judged by me. She also pointed out how she felt I waited until a female friend of ours made a suggestion about changing our kids school rather than listening to her as she had been saying it for a year. She said she felt happier on her own and felt she could finally be herself. I told her I hoped she changed her mind and that we would all love to have her back home someday, but that I supported her desire to find herself. All through the conversation she seemed genuine and never really went on the attack as she was using "I" statements and citing specific examples. She said we would always do stuff with the kids, and didn't make any statement ruling out the possibility of coming back.
I know I broke the code by getting into a relationship talk with her, but her moment of lucidity was too tempting for me. She looked me in the eye and acted as if we were still connected. I was genuinely hurt by her statement "If I could have only bought an endtable" (we had disagreed about getting endtables for years). I told her that I didn't feel we had any more problems than other couples did and she pointed out that we always seemed to be struggling financially and yet I bought expensive games and electronics and the top cable and internet packages. She even acknowledged that she liked to eat out too much and pointed out that we are both surviving on our own with much less means. When I pointed out that together we could be doing better than ever, she said that she felt that she was meant to be on her own and wanted to live a simpler life than I did. Again I told her I hoped she changed her mind someday and that we could work together to find a compromise. Again she did not make any statement or gesture ruling this out.
I don't know what all this means. I do know that I feel like absolute dogshit right now because whether she's MLC or whatever she was right on several things. She told me not to worry about that now which didn't help me at all. I still feel like there is no reason for a D, but having her be reasonable and calm while she shared things that had made her unhappy cut me to the bone since I realized this might not be all about her. Damn.
I would rather she have cussed me out and hit me again. I have found my new low point.
DID I FAIL MY FAMILY?!?!?!?!?!?!
One day at a time.
Thundarr
M 39 W 41 Married 18 years Together 21 D18 D10 S6 D filed May 16, 2011 Bomb Dropped May 18, 2011 D in process
he did say she felt under alot of pressure from the relationship and the family and that had a great deal to do with her making the decision to D. She explained this is what she meant by the metaphor about being at the bottom of the ocean. A couple of the women on the other forum made mention about feeling too much pressure and having to get away from it as being part of peri. If that is so then that feeling might be temporary for her and things may actually get better between us after the D. At least she still wants me in her life and doesn't give off any vibes of being interested in an OM at this point. I had wanted the Separation Agreement, and given the timing of her actually moving to the new house this weekend I am wondering if she's wanting to leave the door open.
How powerful does something have to be to make a woman leaver her husband, her home and her children? No man is worth that. How much must she have suffered before making this decision? Is she crazy or is she a WAW? Maybe she really has been trying to make herself happy again and this was the next step to do it. That is MLC, right? Maybe she will realize this won't work either in the long run and she will either take it further or come back to her family. Other than letting myself engage in the relationship talk, I think I did everything humanly possible to communicate caring and respect to her tonight. If only I had some way of knowing she were reachable. She really did not seem to be in any fog tonight. Earlier today I was really challenged about standing, even though my assistant told me she felt that was the right thing to do and said she would do the same thing (that was HUGE because I really value her opinion!!). Now, I am reminded yet again how much I love her.
M 39 W 41 Married 18 years Together 21 D18 D10 S6 D filed May 16, 2011 Bomb Dropped May 18, 2011 D in process
In the same way that none should be able to say they did not contribute to the demise of a marriage, neither should one ever feel like they were the direct or leading cause.
I believe that MLC in particular is a long term issue - kind of an emotional perfect storm. Much of the root lies in the life of the MLC'er, but the layers upon layers that eventually complete the picture are laid by many, and we as LBS's certainly contribute.
Acknowledgment that we played some role in our spouses crisis leads us to some self-reflection, and self-reflection hopefully leads us to positive changes in ourselves. This is the "work" that we as LBS's can most effectively do.
I'm convinced you can read as many studies as you like, speak to as many people you like, catch up on as many threads in places like this as you like...and none of will give you the ability to predict how the MLC your spouse is experiencing will turn out.
Numbers have the ability to comfort us, but too many of the numbers are best guesses in my opinion.
The truth is that none of the numbers or studies or stories matter nearly as much as what is inside of you. Back when I was more active on this board, there was a period of time when the issue of "standing" for your marriage or not became quite contentious. There were some who felt that you should stand forever, some who felt you should stand for just so long, and some who felt like a divorce decree was a pretty clear signal that it was time to stop standing.
They were all wrong.
You stand until you choose to no longer stand.
And it's your decision.
Not one of those you flip a coin on of course, but one of those that only YOU can make.
Again, it's about what's inside of you.
You know how you feel today, and you know the love that is still in your heart for your spouse. You know that the committment to her is still fresh inside of you.
So you proceed from there.
You keep the peace, you insulate yourself and your children, you protect your home and your sanity. You keep the path home one that your wife knows and can easily travel. At the same time you make sure that you don't allow her journey to knock you from yours. You can't travel together on this thing, and that's hard to accept.
Blessings,
Bill
"Don't tell me the sky is the limit when there are footprints on the moon."
It is pure Hell and anything I can do to protect my kids and myself, and hopefully protect my W from herself, I will gladly do. I take my vows very seriously and will not abandon any of them in their hour of need.
The first sentence is the first advice given here.
Do it.
the second is a choice.
BUT
Do it for YOU. Don't do it to be a martyr you will lose your way.
Do it because it is who you are.
Do it because it is an expression of yourself.
And maybe.
Maybe.
Of enduring love. How long?
A personal choice...
My goal is to some day be the person my dog thinks I am
She also pointed out how she felt I waited until a female friend of ours made a suggestion about changing our kids school rather than listening to her as she had been saying it for a year. She said she felt happier on her own and felt she could finally be herself.
Any of that true? Sting a bit?
Originally Posted By: Thundarr
would rather she have cussed me out and hit me again. I have found my new low point.
DID I FAIL MY FAMILY?!?!?!?!?!?!
Listen man.
You're here.
The ONLY way you can fail your family is to fail yourself.
Platitude?
This is a process. The first step I have said already:
FIGURE OUT WHO YOU F'ING ARE!
What man you want to be.
This may be someone you haven't known before...
And that guy may be a beauty!
You're a smart guy I can tell.
These folks here
Been where you're goin'
There is no predetermind outcome.
Our goal?
You.
The only thing YOU control.
PS. I hate following Bworl! just read what he says up there^^^
My goal is to some day be the person my dog thinks I am
I don't know what all this means. I do know that I feel like absolute dogshit right now because whether she's MLC or whatever she was right on several things. She told me not to worry about that now which didn't help me at all. I still feel like there is no reason for a D, but having her be reasonable and calm while she shared things that had made her unhappy cut me to the bone since I realized this might not be all about her. Damn.
I would rather she have cussed me out and hit me again. I have found my new low point.
It definitly is a 'Tale of Two Schitties' , huh ?
On one hand , we want that hurt to stop, and the faith that we once held ( and still do ) so completely for our spouse , sets us up to think that we can just flip a switch or say a phrase that will 'snap' them out of this nightmare.
So you got sukked in to her drama , and she put you right where she needed you to be to push that button, and cause you to be "that guy"...
Don't worry too much about that for now. Just learn from your mistake in it and take a step forward today in your journey. It is only a mistake if you don't use that opportunity to learn from it and not repeat it down the road.
You will find yourself in situations where things may start out completely normal , and the MLCer will start to feel that normalcy again too. That is when trouble for the LBS starts.
Your pretty little MLCer will spin things, and push buttons to create the distance that they need from you. to distance themselves from the emotional reality of it all.
They need to put you in the position of being the person that they FEEL they need to walk away from.
And how could they walk away from someone who is so understanding and loving toward them ?
They can't , so they start pushing buttons until they find the one that turns you into Captain A$$hole , and the person that they want to leave.
Thing is, that is a facade , a tainted image of who they NEED you to be instead of the reality of who you are.
Those are the times when you should practice validating her concerns...I.E. " I understand how you feel that way"
Those things that she said that "hurt" you or "stung" ???
Well , those are HER list of things that she feels , caused her to walk away.
Although those are HER things.....they "stung" because YOU belive them too , and you know that you were "that guy" that she accuses you of.
THOSE are the things that you don't like about yourself, and should take a long look at in your mirror ( yes mirror, learn that one buddy ).
Just beware that the things you do your work on, and eventually change within yourself. You don't do those things because SHE wants you to. You do those things because YOU don't like those qualities in yourself.
They are FOR you and you alone...
And although you may feel that you could 'Talk a cat off of a fish truck'
Don't tell her all about your new changes , and things going through your mind . Don't tell her about this DB site and put your game plan out there for her to see....That is for you.
Don't tell her that she is nucking futs , unless you want your eyes scratched out...
And also.....no cutie letters explaining how you are sorry for everything....
Originally Posted By: Thundarr
DID I FAIL MY FAMILY?!?!?!?!?!?!
My personal thoughts on this is....that you did the best you could with the tools that you had at the time....
Nothing that you did held malice, or willingness to emotionally or physically harm your MLCer throughout your marriage.
Accept your role in the demise, and own your parts..
Down the road a way, this will be something that you WILL have to deal with, but for now....???
I think you just may have enough on your plate...
Thundarr......I really do understand your pain right now...
I have cried those tears and felt those burning questions that you are asking....
All I can do is tell you that I see your future, and it gets better.
