I guess I am now an official member of the DB club

[~ kd ~]

lol... the games HAVE begun, woody...

Gotta love the busting on the secret phone, thing...

Anyhow, not sure if you're joking about the stalking thing. I'm just guessing here... maybe she was at the mall... to shop...? Are you sure you know her car well enough to know it was hers? And I'm guessing your truck is not hard to miss and I can't imagine she would intentionally park only two stalls from you...

BTW, I'm guessing you really don't want a D, otherwise you wouldn't be here. So the question is, are you making sure you are taking EVER minute of time necessary for responses in the D process?

Because you understand that if you are going to work on YOU so that you become a man only a fool would leave... that could take some time...

oh, I mean could take some time for your W to notice...

[Woodman]

kaffe diem - you are absolutely right I do not want a divorce. And yes I am going to slow down and take every minute to get there. I am going to string it out fo ras long as possible while I become the man that I WANT TO BE!.
I know she would be blind to park that close to me and not notice my vehicle. Just odd that out of this immense parking lot she would end up so close. I really think she wanted to see me without me seeing her. She is that afraid of confrontation. And the fact is, there would be no confrontation, but that is what she has all worked up in her mind.
Should be an interesting weekend.

[~ kd ~]

Good for keeping things slow.

I think I got a little confused about the vehicles. When people say "car" in reference to truck... well, it just baffles me. Read back and... is she still driving the truck and you're still driving the car? Doesn't matter, just curious... Although if there was a switch, just wondering when and why?

A quick thing about 180s. Understand that 180s are not intended to be long term... unless they are something that is real and true to you, that will stick... AND kept because they help the sitch... if you notice they hurt the sitch (in dark, long term exposure may be necessary to see results), then stop doing them. If they neither help nor hurt, then you can choose whether to keep them for YOU.

And on dark, there's dim, dark, and NC... NC being no contact. You are dark, since there is some contact due to financials and the D process. Dark is used to get off the roller coaster and away from the drama. It helps us detach so that we're not emotionally reacting when in contact with our S.

If you can bear it and your wife is receptive, become more... dim... be careful that it isn't perceived as pursuing, because your W may be a little sensitive to that. But if you hold a conversation a little longer, it may lead to giving your W more time to see your changes. This all depends on whether you KNOW you can hold it together when in contact with her. Otherwise, DO NOT risk it.

If you can extend contact, MAKE SURE you are the one to end it. This removes the risk your W might think your pursuing.

The point is, you will have a better opportunity to try out 180s as well. Not too many at a time, because then you won't know which ones had what effect.

Eventually, you will be a man your foolish W would leave... or you'll just be a fool... but you'll be an irresistible fool for some new lady...

[Woodman]

KD- thanks for the valuable advice.
Sorry about the confusion on the vehicles. I'm still driving the new car and she is still driving the 12 y/o truck. She was complaining yesterday in her email, that the trucks gets horrible gas mileage and it is taking so much money to keep it filled with all the "running around" she is doing. I thought to myself "Welcome to the real world".
I am going to try and extend the contact a little if she comes over this weekend. My 180 is that I am NOT going to talk. I am going to LISTEN. I am a fixer and I always want everyone to hear my solutions. But not anymore. My therapist has been giving me tips on how to really listen and mirror back what I am hearing. I pray that I can hold it together. This 9 weeks of basically being dark was at her request, but it had the effect of helping me to detach, because I was a real basket case when she first left. I don't know exactly how I am going to feel and react to seeing her again and have her in the house. I wish I could paint a smile on my face and leave it there. Give me some good tips on how to validate without agreeing.
I'll update after I see her this weekend. If I see her this weekend. She is so skittish, I'm not sure that she we will make this meeting. She stood me up the last two times.

[~ kd ~]

Validating comes from empathy, which is why LISTENING is soooo important.

Empathy being the understanding of another's feelings. The beauty being, we all have the same feelings. We know what it's like to be sad, happy, angry, frustrated, worried, etc...

Someone can say to me, there was this one time I lost my favorite marble in a well... Geeze, I've never lost a marble down a well... so how can I empathize... but I HAVE lost something that I could not get back and I know the feelings associated with that, so I can legitimately say:

"I know how you feel"

When we're empathizing with someone with whom there is friction, it is tough... if my W would say to me,

"You never helped around the house..."

I would be thinking, what have you been smoking, woman... so that's when I have to step out of my box, drop my truth of the sitch, and think to myself... "That is how SHE feels. I may not agree, but for whatever reason, she believes it... and I guess I could have done a little more or let her know I appreciated all her effort..."

So in that case, I could simply validate and say:

"I understand how you could feel that way..."

It's MOST difficult to empathize and validate when there's some sticking point... so that's where we need to utilize 5 second rules and deep breathing... to keep us calm, allow us to think for a moment, and then we can respond...

And respond as best you can with compassion...

[Woodman]

KD-Thanks man. That's what I needed. Now just waiting to see if she will show up. But not sitting at home waiting. Got things to do. After all I DO have a life! LOL

St. Joseph, patron saint of families, pray for us all.

[Woodman]

Well W figured out a way to not show up. She just emailed me and said she found an 800 number on the credit card and called it and paid off the balance with her debit card. There is no way she thought of this on her own. Someone who is very savvy and especially adept at hiding expenditures is giving her advice. I believe I see the hand of the OM in this. Doesn't surprise me. She cannot bring herself to come to OUR house and discuss property settlement. grandchildren, or even the weather. It's like she cannot bear to see me or the house. Is she a vanisher?
She is wanting this D finished in the minimum amount of time(8-24), but as long as she won't sit down and talk about property settlement with me, the more I can drag this thing out. I am planning on filing jointly on imcome tax this year. LOL

[Woodman]

And what happened to the idea that we would start to text in order to better communicate? She is still treating me like a disease. I guess I should not be shocked or hurt(but I am a little). This IS after all, all about her.

[~ kd ~]

Since there is no other reason for contact, your W appears to be finding reasons to not have to be in your presence...

While I don't necessarily disagree with the likelyhood there is someone who is "coaching" her on some stuff... who that might be is only a guess...

So while someone could suggest you go full NC, she's already initiated NC, except for stuff relating to financials and dissolution...

Not sure, but since she figured out the cc thing... you COULD have been NC on that. And dissolution can be completely through the Ls.

In the other hand... you obviously have common friends... small community, maybe...

While it's NOT a tactic... you may want to REALLY step up your GAL. Dress as well as is reasonable when you go out... kick it up a notch, Emeril... a bit of cologne, maybe a little blue on the face (chicks dig that, sometimes)... be happy, light steps walking in public, lot's of "Hey! How ya doin'" kind of stuff when you see people on the street...

Get out to shows, invite friends, female friends... to go to public places like coffee shops and stuff...

The ONLY goal here is to GAL and enjoy yourself and take your mind of the cr@p in your life...

but MAYBE... a secondary effect might be that your W will hear about this... and become curious... and start contacting you to find out what's going on...

but it's NOT a tactic to win her back... your just becoming a REAL CATCH that only a FOOL would leave...

capiche?

[~ kd ~]

Not sure if you've seen this yet, Woody... but since I've got it copied to my clip board, I figured I'd post it for you now, as well:

Do's and Don'ts DB guide:

1.Do not pursue, reason, chase, beg, plead or implore! This turns the spouse completely off!
2. No frequent phone calls to spouse.......let him/her be the one to call you. Then don't try to hang on to your spouse through conversation.....instead, you say good-bye first.
3. Do not point out good points in marriage or try to get him/her to read marriage books, etc.
4. Do not follow your spouse around the house like a puppy dog trying to get his/her time and attention.
5. Do not encourage talk about the future.
6. Do not ask for help from family members.
7. Do not ask for reassurances (That is showing neediness and being clingy.)
8. Do not buy gifts. (Can't buy his/her love and affection.)
9. Do not schedule dates together. (That is pursuing.)
10.Do not spy on spouse. (Not good for you and will make
matters worse.)
11.Do not say "I Love You" (It is being "pushy" and trying to make your spouse say it too......he/she will despise you for it.)
12.Act "as if" you are moving on with your life!
13.Be cheerful, strong, outgoing and attractive at all times!
14.Don't sit around waiting on your spouse – get busy, think of things to do. Go to church, go out with friends, etc.
15.When at home with your spouse, (if you usually start the
conversation---then don't, wait for him/her) then, be scarce or
short on words, but don't sound rude. If your spouse asks what's wrong....just say "nothing". Keep it short and simple. Don't get into an argument! Stay polite and don’ t act like you are pouting. Use poise and class.
16.If you are in the habit of asking your spouse his/her
whereabouts, ASK NOTHING!! No matter what time he/she comes home!
17.You need to make your partner think that you have had an
awakening and, as far as you are concerned, you are going to move on with your life, with or without your spouse.
18.Do not be nasty, angry or even cold - just pull back and wait to see if spouse notices and, more important, realize what he/she will be missing. (But never ask him/her if he/she has noticed any changes!!)
19.No matter what you are feeling TODAY, only show your spouse happiness and contentment. Show your spouse someone he/she would want to be around, somebody that is attractive and fun.
20.All questions about marriage should be put on hold, until your spouse wants to talk about it (which may be a while).
21.Never lose your cool! Don't let your spouse trap you into a fight.
22.Don't be overly enthusiastic, don't over-kill, b/c it will come across as fake.
23.Do not argue about how your spouse feels about something (it only makes his/her feelings more negative.)
24.Be patient......very, very patient. Give your spouse space and time.
25.Listen carefully to what your spouse is really saying to you. Look them in the eyes when they talk to you.
26.Learn to back off, shut up and walk away when you want to speak out (or scream and yell).
27.Take care of yourself (exercise, sleep, laugh & focus on all the other parts of your life that are not in turmoil)
28.Be strong and confident and learn to speak softly. Read self help books, inspirational books or listen to tapes.
29.Know that if you can do 180's, your smallest CONSISTENT
actions will be noticed much more than any words you can say or write.
30.Do not be openly show that you are "desperate" or "needy" even when you are hurting more than ever and truly feel desperate and needy.
31.Do not focus on yourself when communicating with your spouse
32.Do not believe any of what you hear and less than 50% of what you see. Your spouse will speak in absolute negatives because he/she is hurting and scared.
33.Do not give up no matter how dark it is or how bad you feel.
34.Do not ask your spouse if he/she has noticed your changes. Those changes are for you and for the rest of your life...with or without your spouse.
35. Do not backslide from your hard earned changes.