uuugghhhh

[figgeroni]

[sofaraway]

I completely disagree that telling someone that they should beat themselves up over a mistake, as sofaraway did, is a good way to communicate what you and Fig are trying to convey.

I completely disagree that saying 'we are only human' is a mere excuse. It is true, we are human. And as I said, there is not one single person on this board that has not made a mistake or felt an emotion due to being 'only human'.

BUT, I agree with you and Fig that we cannot use it to justify repeated mistakes forever.

I guess my main point is that there is a good way to communicate this, as I think you and Fig did... and a way, tough love you may call it, that some people may find hurtful... Some people do not respond well to that... and, worst case scenerio, some people could be driven away from this board. I certainly don't think that is helpful.

All I'm saying...

Denver

Denver,
I have always posted the way I do, it is not about tough love for me it is about saying what I believe. Just as people need their hands held sometimes, or their back patted, they also need their butts kicked.

My problem was that everyone was making it acceptable for Grr to take actions that were in the long run much more detrimental to her than any "harsh" words I may use. Grr is not a newcomer. Grr is in a unique relationship that she needs help dealing with. My opinion is that she is too damn smart to make the mistakes that she made and those who support her instead of pulling her up by her bootsraps were instead making cliche excuses for her. "your only human" is an excuse Denver. In your profession, you know that to be true. How about this, I am a defendant in a case and I bring up all my buddies to tell everyone I may have screwed up a bit but it's ok because I am only human? Good enough for you?


The first time I looked at my ex-wifes phone I was being human. The second time I was making a mistake that I had made in the past and that goes well beyond the excuse of being a mere mortal. Part of learning to make ourselves stronger is having people here who are not simply going to coddle us. I guarantee you that Grr was probably upset when she first read my response, may even still be upset with me, who knows. However in the long run Grr will look at what I posted at some point and see that I was spot on and she will beat herself up for some of the mistakes that she made. WE ALL DO IT!!!

One last thing Denver:

there is a good way to communicate this, as I think you and Fig did... and a way, tough love you may call it, that some people may find hurtful... Some people do not respond well to that... and, worst case scenerio, some people could be driven away from this board. I certainly don't think that is helpful.

1. There are many good ways to communicate this.
2. Some people find it helpful.
3. I have had over 10,000 posts and as far as I know I have never driven anyone away from here and anyone who knows me will tell you I am a stand up guy.
4. It is not your job to police this, the poster needs to stand up and say if they were offended!
5. Lastly, what you think is helpful may not be right for everyone either, so should you stop posting the way you do????

Grrrr,
I want to say one thing to you. I do not post to many people anymore. I posted to you because I have read some of your stuff and seeing this immediately hit me that you may be allowing yourself to fall back to a habit you do not want to get back to. I was not chastising you, only those who should have been helping you learn instead of coddling you. You deserve to not have to hurt anymore and part of how that happens is by taking everything your learning here and using it to prevent backsliding into bad habits. That was my point and I believe from reading your stuff and knowing some background that you are better than that and a much stronger woman than you give yourself credit for.




Ian

[figgeroni]

Ian...you chased me (although away isn't exactly where I would say you chased me...insert eyebrow waggle )

Denver...

My point is not to defend Ian as he is capable

My point is to let Grr defend herself if she wants to
she is a strong woman and needs no white knight riding in (which is how I took your post to be...which I am sure is most likely NOT how you meant it to be...it is just my own dealio)

but

perhaps

this is a prime example of projection

we are all adults and need to remember that it is not our jobs to take care of anyone else here (tough for me to remember...I have a tendency to be a might, some might say, pit-bullish)

We all do make mistakes
and
unlike Ian, I would give myself about 3 times before banging my head against the cinderblocks but still

the need to bang might be there

and

the need to bang, the urge to bang is GOOD

it keeps us from needlessly loosing the blood of our souls

it is a long, hard road and we have to take care of ourselves firstly....we are good to know one else if we are too weak to get up alone

Grr needs to remember that what keeps her whole and safe is NOT snooping...we all know what we will find


My parents have been married for 36 years
my parents have NEVER cheated, or even really raised voices at each other...they hold hands and kiss and my mom sits on my dad's lap and are generally gross all around

my mom never checks my dad's pockets when she does the wash...
he has lost countless wallets and watches that way

but she says

she will not snoop

she is happy knowing what she knows and doesn't want to know differently

[Denver_2010]

Ian and Fig - I completely understand where you guys are coming from. I may have been a bit harsh in my reply to your post Ian (and read my reply to you on my thread in newcomers bc I really liked what you had to say to me there). And I know that it is not my job to police anything here. Probably you two are right that we should just let the poster say what they don't like. But I happen to know grr pretty well. And I'm pretty damn comfortable with saying that this particular approach is not going to work for her. That is why I reacted the way that I did. I'm not saying that she doesn't want to hear it when she screws up... And I'm DEFINITELY not saying that she isn't a strong woman who isn't capable of standing up for herself ... She is a very strong person. Hell, she has to be to have fought so hard and for so long for her M under these circumstances.

But...

1) This was my first encounter with you Ian. IMO, there are some posters here who pride themselves on being aholes with their posts. I probably jumped the gun in thinking that you might be one of them Ian. Sorry.

2) I do happen to know someone who was driven off of the board bc of they way that she felt she was being beat up. So I know that it has happened. How often does it happen? Who knows. Hopefully not much. I just think that it is something that should be kept in mind.

There are so many of you vets out there who offer such great advice and are genuinely here to help. I'd hate to think that someone didn't stick around to receive it bc they mistook the true intentions of a particular post.

Hell, Cat could have easily driven me off the boards if I had a thin skin. She beats me up on a weekly basis. at you Cat.

Okay... well I'm off to my more comfortable place in Newcomers...

Denver

[grr]

so much to respond to here.............and really grateful for all of the advice (all of it)

and will so respond, as i understand that nothing has been said out of malice or whatever........BUT

i do want to thank denver for riding in on his off -white horse.

sometimes you do need a hug

i did

and that's not to say that i should not have received 2 by 4's from anyone else, as that is why we post...is it not?

to get honest, objective opinions and just maybe another way of thinking

and i don't always need to beat myself up

sometimes i just have to realize what i did and move on

i don't think it is an excuse to say i am only human

i think it is the truth

that being said, i can do better and i will

so thank you all, and honestly, if it was denvers intent to coddle just a bit, i don't see the harm in that

at times we all need that

and ian, thank you, yes, i am usually very, very strong........but there is so much weight on my shoulders right now, i seem to be slipping a bit

huggs to everyone and i hope you are all ok

[grr]

ian,

you are right about a few things,,

i have began to fall back on this behaviour, i have not made a habit out of looking at texts, but yes, i have done it a few times

and of course the few times it has been done, i have not liked what i have seen

and it is something i don't want to repeat...it does not at all help me to move forward

not at all

my h is playing in the city tonight and i have to take my son in to see him
this is especially an awkward situation for me right now
and if i had not seen that he had been with someone else, it would have been a much better night all around

you know what, i had been getting stronger......day by day.....this set me back

at some point i will get to a place where i don't care that he is with someone else

right now i am not there

sorry if this is vague and not making much sense, i don't feel great at the thought of seeing him tonight....i feel nervous and a bit scared

i know that a week from now (hopefully sooner) i may feel very different and more sure of myself

but right now, i need to put on a happy face, as my son is thrilled to be going to see his daddy and make sure he has a wonderful time tonight

again, thanks to anyone who takes time to write....i know many of you are going thru your own hell and i am so very sorry

[figgeroni]

Grr...it is not for you to feel nervous or scared...and I know this is easy for me to say

but

you are not the one being a douchebag

you are not the one skeezing around

remember to hold your head high

[grr]

Grr, why are you upset with yourself for confronting your H? I am not saying you were wrong or right. It isn't up to me to judge that (and I am not making a response to anyone else who may have either). My question is why? Why did you feel the need to confront him? And why are you upset with yourself for doing it?

mmf

mmf, thanks for writing......i want to answer your question and i had to think about it for a bit.....

i am upset that i confronted him because i do realize that he has to walk this path right now

in 17 years of being on the road with his band, he has never once cheated... i have heard from people that he has walked away from any temptation (much to the amazement of his bandmates) every time....

so i guess i should not have confronted him because we are separated...and to me that means he can do whatever he wants to do

i have actually thrown this scenario about in my head numerous times and had come to the conclusion that it would be good if he saw someone else...he needs to compare his life to something else

he needs to see what else is out there

that being said (or written) i cannot compete with a younger woman who is not at home with a child...a woman without responsibilities who may be able to meet him whenever

but i also know what i am

and most of the time i like me

but i did confront him due to the fact that he was paying money to fly her to be with him, when he has not given me any money for our child

that hurt

and in our entire relationship, he has never asked if he should pay for a ticket for me (that would be something i would not have accepted anyway)

is this a long vague answer to your question?
sorry

thanks for taking the time to write and i hope that you are ok today

[grr]

Grr...it is not for you to feel nervous or scared...and I know this is easy for me to say

but

you are not the one being a douchebag

you are not the one skeezing around

remember to hold your head high

thanks figgy (hope you don't mind the informality)

i was nervous and scared....i didn't have a clue how i would react when i saw him

but you know what?

i did hold up my head and did not have a care in the world (on the outside of course)

and when i did see him, most of those emotions dissipated.

it actually was an ok night

we were friendly and kept focused on our son

thanks for the words

[figgeroni]

informality is good

and

I am glad you were able to have an OK night

remember that
feeling

of it not being great but it not being as horrible as you imagined

things are often a million times worse in our imaginations (at least mine...I have a pretty wicked one


(and you are damn right to have confronted him about using joint money...you are still married...to fly someone out)