Stop the Coaster, I want OFF!

[LearningPatience]

9,
hope your weekend/trip to parents was as good as can be under the circumstances. Let us know how you are doing when you get a chance.

[Denver_2010]

Just checking in 9. I've been on hiatus for a bit. I hope that you are doing okay right now.

BITS
Denver

[ninelives]

Just got back from trip to parents . Update later, at soccer, with youngest son, Im playing with ex students and he is in net.

May have torn ligament in knee first touch of ball. very disappointing.

9

[ninelives]

Okay Update time:

So i was in Southern Ontario since last Thurs. Had great time sometimes and not so good other times but such is LIFE.

I had to get out of town for a number of reasons.

A) I was still very heated about OM beating up my angel. ( I know dramatic but I mean it) I have visions of that grotesque dung heap touching my wife and it makes me see red.

I didnt trust myself had I seen him in town or even knowing where he was not to do something about it. And I know that would have probably landed me in jail

B) My parents are both sick. My dad is at home with some homecare but it isnt 24-7. He needed help and my brother is being run off his feet.

C) My mom is in the hospital and may never come out to her normal home. May have to go to old folks home for lack of a better term right now.

So on Thurs, I take the bike, go to my home town where my best buddies are. I am tired so I decide to have a few drinks with my buds, go to the bar. sleep and go the next day. There is a friend of mine I havent seen in YEARs who lives in Aba dabi. He invited me to visit him or at least to play goal for his ice hockey team in Thailand next year. IT was a nice time

So on Friday, I continue down south ( BIg Province you yanks), and visit my dad. He is very annoying and demanding and always has been. He has ruined my mom's life but that is another story.

I hang with him on the Friday, cater to him hand and foot , visit my brother and SIL.

Sat I go to visit my mom in hospital in London ONt. Fairly bigger small city. A little unnerved getting there on the bike, then ride about 3 hours to my old hometown again and see friends.

Have a little too much to drink and am seeing lots of highschool friends that just happened to be there. I am getting lots of compliments about my physical shape and How I have managed to stay so young. Get propositioned by one ex school mate and im thinking, its good to be single but way to much going on for that complication. Tempted though, really. Blonde bombshell back in highschool and I would have cut my right one off to be with her back then.

Have a great night. Wake up , go back to see my dad, 2.5 hours away. So im getting a lot of riding done on the bike.

Have some heart to hearts with my parents.

Get a text from a friend of mine. She shares an aunt with OM's wife's aunt.

So on July 1st , OM's wife is at a gathering with my friend. Tells the mutual aunt that OM has been asking to come back home.
OM's wife keeps turning him down.

W and I have some decent talks and some texts but stay away from R talk. I just want to be her friend right now and help her through.

Sunday night we have very good talk about our old show and wishes I was home to watch with her. Me too I say.

I tell her about what my friend says about OM. I ask,

M: Does that hurt you?

W: A little

M: Why does that hurt you after what he did to you.

W: I dont want his life ruined, I ruined his life

M: NO, he ruined his life. He didnt have the right to hit you.

W: I know, I wish this never happened.

M: Which part?

W: The whole thing, i wish i could erase the lastl 2 years.

M: Cant, got to go forward from here.

M: Do regret calling the police? Do you think you overreacted.

W: A little.

M: That concerns me. He beat you up. He needed to go to JAIL.

W: I just feel guilty.

I got home yesterday, we talked a little but not much. I was tired and needed to get to soccer. We talked a little at night or texted but it was distant.

Today,,youngest son had sailing at low island. She was down there.

I will contiue this later. Big conversation. Lots of potential consequences.

9

[LearningPatience]

9,
your W is going to have a lot of conflicting feelings and guilt for a while. Yes, OM was a dirtbag, but no matter what, your W saw something in him (who knows what). It will take her time to process all of that. It will probably hurt for you, but just be there for W as a friend.

Sorry about the parents. It's hard to see them that way. Enjoy the time you have with them.

Gotta watch out for too much drinking. Look what it did for Denver (sorry dude:) and me (broke my finger in TO).

And yes, Ontario is big. Drove the whole 401 to Quebec, hope to never do that again (the 401, not Quebec .

Hang in there 9!

[2stepboogie]

9 I wait with baited breathe!!

So far so good

[♪CS♪]

I will contiue this later. Big conversation. Lots of potential consequences.

Way to leave us hangin'!

Good to hear from you man...

[greenblue90]

9
Sorry for finally getting around to catching your thread. I just want you to know that your W's behavior is normal for someone that is bi polar. I went through a similar situation and after much research on the subject and some good advice I think I have a better handle on the sitch.

First off some basics on being bi polar:

Now that she has admitted to this it really goes far in explaining her behavior even the presence of OM.

See as the name implies, she goes through highs and she goes through lows. As spouses we love the high, they are industrious, loving, sweet and a lot of fun to be around with.

When she is low I imagine she is moody and angry, and nothing can get her to calm down except time.

She can't help being in either state. The angry texts are definitely evidence of the low state. I'll talk about these in a second.

The worst part is that most of the time she probably can't realize or admit that she is in either state. All she knows is that she is really angry or really sad she doesn't know why or can't explain which makes things worse. She may do things which may seem extreme, reckless or hurtful. All she can focus on is her pain/loneliness/anger and will do anything to make the pain go away, no matter what the cost to her or those around her.

Now how do you and OM fit in this?

I'm sure that during the beginning you were everything for her, you guys probably had a lot of good times. As time rolled by real life problems kicked in along with "low" episodes. All of a sudden she can't explain why she feels so sad, she probably couldn't handle basic situations. So she looked for an explanation for all her unhappiness, she blamed you.

You also mentioned that she felt powerless all these years. I know all about this too. What she really means is that she feels helpless in controlling her emotions, she feels she is not in control of herself, and by extension her life. Often these feelings are compounded by her role as the home maker and primary child caretaker. She may feel like she wasted her life or did nothing with it. As she goes through these lows because you are the one there she associates you with them. So when she says that you have made her miserable it's not true. You just happen to be an innocent bystander that got caught up in the whirlwind of her emotions. In other words you are mr low.

As for OM he is mr high. Being with him at one point was new and exciting. Most importantly it wasn't you. Anybody would have done (which explains why she chose a scumbag). The key point here is that when this all started you were mr low and he was mr high. You used to be mr high but most likely years of misplaced resentment knocked you off that pedestal.

Now her relationship with OM has gone on for awhile which explains why all of a sudden she is having doubts. When she was with you he was her knight in shining armor coming to rescue her from a life of misery and resentment. As she left with OM reality is setting in she is realizing that real life issues will set in on this new R too. By now she has probably had some low episodes with OM. Her words and actions show that she may be realizing this.

She may be realizing how much better she had it with you and her family. So why isn't she back then? That's because she has spent a long time convincing herself that you are mr low and OM is mr high. It's why she still has doubts things will work out, it's probably why she can't bring herself to the realization that OM is not worth it. She is having a hard time accepting she may have been wrong all along. It's not because she is stubborn, but because her emotions on both highs and lows have been soo strong that she can't believe that these emotions are wrong no matter how high the mountain of evidence otherwise.

So what does this all mean? She needs to learn that leaving mr low looking for mr high is just a recipe for a series of failed relationships and more pain for her, and those that care about her. She needs to learn that her actions have consequences both for her and for those that care for her. She needs to learn that you will not tolerate you hurting you or the family. Many will disagree but I think your OW was a good wake up call for her. Seeing OW made her feel the pain she gave you. All of a sudden she has a new perspective. Her angry texts are just more evidence of her inability to control her runaway emotions.

When this happens let her rant, yell scream, as long as she does not direct the anger to the children or start hurting herself or others, let her scream. In fact this is the time you need to go dark the most. As she will most likely try to bait you into the fight. Getting you to fight back validates to her that she is not the unreasonable one, you are just a jerk. Dont give her more ammo just be polite and state that you will not take abuse. Once she cools down let her approach you.

Most importantly remember it's is not your job to be
Mr high. It's impossible condition will never allow any man to be that for long. Instead you need to be mr stable. You need to be her emotional rock and be strong for both you and her. She needs to feel safe, yet feel in control of her own life. You need to first be a good friend.

Well I may be completely wrong so I'll stop here. Let me know what you think of all this.

[ninelives]

Thanks for the input LP. Im not drinking too much, just when I was away visiting friends.

WOW GB, thats a heck of a post. It tends to make sense. This disorder is something that I wondered about for years. It still doesnt explain to me, how she could invest so much time in OM.
I dont think she actually fell in love with him but I think she thought that for a while. but thanks for that in depth look at possible explainations.

I dont know where to start with whats going on and Im sure that My w and I are doing the wrong things now. She is still messed up but I do believe she REGRETS all of this or MOST of it.

I took youngest son to the beach and her van was already there.

Again, its ironic that last summer during his sailing course that we attempted Recon.

I ask her to get into my car so we can chat.

M: I dont want to get into a R convo. I just want to know if you have totally ruled out us getting back someday .

W: DONT ask me questions about US right now. I cant answer them . I dont want to be interrogated , I CANT take that right NOW.

M: Calm down, i dont want to talk about US in detail. I just want to know if you have totally given up. IF you have, then I just want you to be honest.

W: NO, I havent given up on us but I dont want to answer alot of questions OK. I just want to get healthy and to be by MYSELF for a while. I feel great shame for What I have done to OUR family and HOw much I have hurt you. I KNOW IM the laughing stock of the town. I just dont want to face this right now.

M: Fair enough. I dont want to pressure you in any way. I just want you to know that I am here for you. I also want you to know that I forgive you for this. I know that you were in pain and just wanted it to stop.

OM is a scumbag and a predator. IM glad that you were able to listen to others about that. I have heard lots of info about him and his patterns and he has done this before. He is very good at it so dont beat yourself up over it.

W: I knew he wasnt good for me. I KNEW it but couldnt stop myself. He kept putting me on a pedastal and telling me exactly what I needed to hear. IM so sorry for all I have done to you.
I dont deserve your forgiveness. I Hate myself so much for all the pain I have caused our family. Especially our boys.

Why does a person do that to themselves? Why have I ruined myself and our family.

M: Ruined is a strong word. You havent ruined yourself. You have at least 30-40 years left that can be happy. You have to stop looking behind and start looking forward. Where do you go from here.

Stop looking at your unhappy childhood and the last few years where you were miserable. Own it and put it away. There is so much life yet to live.

W: But you wont take me back. You will always have this over me.

M: IF I take you back, I will do so with forgiveness and I will NEVER bring this up again. IF i dont take you back, its because I cant forgive this. In which case, it would be pointless to start again.

We talked for a long time. She hinted many times that she wanted to come back and was positive that she wanted her life back and the family.

We went back to my place where she borrowed some sugar and we hung out. My OW texted that she wanted to help me clean out my basement and so she wanted to bring a trailer over and leave it in my driveway till Sat. Thats when the dump opens.

I told my W about that and she said she didnt want to be there for that.

I hugged W goodbye and started to massage her back like I always used to .

W: I missed that so much. I love your massages.

M: I missed that too. Are you still sore from last week.

W: iN a couple of places I am, but not too bad. BtW, are you going to finish the stairs and the basement this summer. I have some ideas.

M: What does that mean?

W: Well, Im just saying that If/ When I come back, I would like some things different here.
I should also start considering put my house up for sale.

M: Whoa, lets not go there yet.

W: ARe you not going to take me back? Have you had a change of heart?

M: W, there is nothing I would want more. BUt we have to take this slow, you know this

W: I know< i have to find the strength to be on my own. Can we plan a couple of trips with the kids? And you and me date for a while but keep it light.

M: That sounds like a plan. I would love to go to Marine land with the Kids this summer.

The entire time I am massaging her and she loves it. She has a IC appointment later in the afternoon.

M: I would also like to watch our show on Sundays together and if you want. I will massage you after your shifts as I know how sore you are after work.

W: That would be wonderful. I hate to go but I have to shower and get ready for appointment.

She leaves and then within minutes, I get text from my OW.

OW: Hey I have the trailer, I will bet there in a few minutes. Is it ok if I have a swim.

M: That should not be a problem. I have been icing my knee all day and I dont think I wlll be going in.

BTW ( before W leaves, she asks me to promise that I would not hug OW while she is here, I say ok i wont and then she says and if you have had sex with her, please NO MORE) I know this sounds so bizarre. I really like OW and I dont want to hurt her. She is still hurting from her failed relationship. Her ex was over yesterday to discuss separation of assets and he tells her that he has been trying to reconcile with her. Thats news to her but i ask her point blank , " ARE you still in love with Ex? She cant deny it but says he is not good for her that she needs to move on. I tell her about my W and where we are at and she says , " Thats cool, figure out where you are going with that, " Like I said ,she is a real cool girl.

So I hang with Ow for the rest of the day. She is cleaning up my yard. We laugh quite a bit. I could defintely see a relationship with this girl but she is not my wife or the mother of my children. And she is 14 years younger than me.

I am getting dinner ready and she tells me she has to leave to take care of some business.

Oldest son tells me that he doesnt really care for her as she is so hyper and trying to light a fire under him to help me with basement. Oldest son calls his mom and invites her for dinner.

She comes over, we get kitchen cleaned up and I finish making dinner.

I ask how her appointment went with IC

W: VEry draining. She believes I should be on my own for a while

M: Agreed, but then what?

W: I want to come home and get my life back. I missed you and the kids more than you know

M: I dont know about timelines. Lets not make any. Are you sure that you want this again?

W: Very sure. Im going to have to get over the guilt and the feeling that the whole town thinks I am worthless.

M: Forget what anybody thinks. This is between you and I and our kids. Nobody else matters.

W: I cant believe you would just wipe the slate clean.

M: ONe thing I never stopped doing is loving you. I can do that because I want another crack at this family. We deserve it.

W: I used to get so jealous of other families when they were out walking. I know we can be a great family again.

M: Make sure you are coming back for the right reasons.

W: Dont say that again. I know you have the right not to trust me but I swear I would never do this again. I know it.

We talked at length about expectations and it did go to R talk quite a bit. I then say//

M: Since you seem convinced that you are coming back, i want to throw this out.

W: Yes

M: Would you be willing to sign a pre nup. If you are so confident that you would never leave again, then it should be a non issue

W: YOu want me to sign a pre nup? What does that mean.

M: My lawyer said I would be crazy to take you back without you signing one. That would mean that if things went south again, you would be entitled to leave with what you came in with. Nothing more/

W: Yeah, I would sign one.

M: That would also make me feel more comfortable that you are in for the long haul

W: 9, I swear I will NEVER hurt you again.

Then we started talking about OW and how many woman Ive been with since we were apart etc... She said that If I wanted her back earlier all I had to do was be with an OW in public. She said she never thought I would really move on and when she saw me with someone else, it really hit home that she may lose the most important person in her life.

I am aware that we shouldnt be talking about R talk, however thae convo seems to go there.

She works tomorrow morning and was a little aprhensive about being alone tonight. I offered my massage services again and she said OK.

I went over to her house and we went up to her bedroom and I massaged her for well over an hour until she fell asleep. She was so thankful that I would do that for her and i was so thankful that I had a chance to do that again.

A couple of times I let my mind wander that this bed was where her and OM had sex countless times and it did get to me a little but way less than I thought it would.

I left her snoring away and went home. All in all , I think today went pretty well. I know its really early but I feel good about this. I am worried that I may be making a huge mistake but I believe my marriage is worth one more try.

9

[25yearsmlc]

9,

Wow...why are you asking her anything about the M now? Why?

You pressed her after she said she didn't want to talk about the m.

why? She's got a serious psychological diagnosis she has to come to terms with

you have said here that YOU don't want to do anything FOR NOW but be

there for her as a friend b/c obviously you cannot be more than that at this time

as she's not able to decide what she wants or how or when AND you are not there either...


She's not even on meds yet, right?

Yet---she was insightful enough to say she wanted to talk about it LATER

but you pressed on, pursuing against her wishes, pushing her for an answer about something she said she didn't want to discuss...

I don't get the reason for ANY of the conversation,

given all that you've heard here and said...

Wow...I just don't get it.


What kind of answer to you think you can hold her to?


What was the real true goal of yours?

I'm confused.