She brought it up a couple times. I didn't bite. Not b/c of the no R rule though. I kinda didn't feel like it.
She planned some decorations for a co-workers B day. She went in early to put them up. The she mentioned she had to leave to go to the MC, and said "Not the best way to start the day." later during dinner she said, "it was nice to see MC again."
Our MC emailed me a referral today and she asked twice about that.
In the email our MC said "Sorry these are trying times. I have a lot of hope for you and W and your marriage. Your best days are ahead."
Patience is bitter, but its fruit is sweet. --Jean Jacques Rousseau.
[quote] AS long as you feel that he? (I'll stick with he) is a good doctor not just looking to bilk
I'm pretty sure he isn't looking to bilk. Heck by his own admission he set us into the world in March after about 6 sessions. At the time, he said he rather cut it short than drag it out.
Patience is bitter, but its fruit is sweet. --Jean Jacques Rousseau.
My interest level change. She told me about her visit with the MC. It was a sh!tty night.
First she tells me the MC agrees with her conclusion about separating. My W said that it was nice to have someone confirm what she was thinking because she wasn't sure she was on the right path. Thanks Doc.
Second, she basically reaffirmed what he said. He thinks it's a good idea to separate so we can regroup personally. We can get help with our IC, then we could work with him as needed. My wife seem to think this was okay. He sees the separation as more temporary than anything.
My W sees it as more open ended. She must have said about 20 times that the MC thinks we will have a good outcome. My W did not share that optimism. She is stuck on her "who knows what will happen" mantra. She said that she doesn't know if there was a tipping point in my behavior that she can't get past.
On one hand she says that - that person who went through that awful stuff last year wasn't really "me." But yet, she is still willing to hold me accountable.
I do think she really gets the full ramifications of the EA. She has a lot of guilt about it and wonders if it means something that she did it. I mean, as she put it, it was my No.1 fear last year and it cause me great distress and despite that she still did it. I hate that she feels so awful about it. I tried to tell her that from my end I'm working on how I feel.
Basically, I think her goal through this was to give me no FREAKIN' hope. When I wanted it so desperately. Okay, I shouldn't say NO HOPE because she didn't say "it's over" She did say she wonders about the "costs" if she can get over these things. She kinda glossed of the costs if she can't.
We then talked about because I'm her husband and how she feels about me, I have a lot of leeway in my actions before she'd give up on any relationship with me. Even more so than just a regular friend.
My take - she wants to think she can get over the stuff b/c she does love me and does care and doesn't want to break up our family, BUT she really doesn't think she can and is wrestling with that. She did say that we need a lot of time.
She also kept returning to the idea of a "tipping point." on my actions. She wonders if there was. I think there has to because if there wasn't, then she wouldn't question if there was. The question is can she get past that.
I know she can. I have faith that she can and has the ability to do so. But wether she will is a different question.
Another thing that came up was her "fantasy" about life after a possible divorce. She told our MC that if we split than she would do everything in her power to maintain a great friendship (she is tenacious). I didn't have the heart to tell her that if that happens we won't be friends...no matter how hard she tries.
I've kept this last bit to myself because I don't want to seem punitive. I've done a lot of thinking about this and I decide that I can't be friends with her if we get divorced. (I fully acknowledge that could change) It's not because I don't love her or don't value our connection, it's just that it would be too damn painful...at least in the first couple of years. The connection we had would be severed.
Not to mention that if I move or or she moves on I don't think our SO would be thrilled about us having such a great friendship. I don't know what to do about this. Do I bring it up? My gut says no..just tuck that in the back of your mind. My decision on this is pretty firm.
On the other hand I think she should know that her "fantasy" will burst. She should be fully aware that she would be risking everything.
I don't want to send her mixed message. The closest I got to it tonight was at one point I said "If we remain friends" I don't know if she picked up on it.
I'm kinda flummoxed on this.
So at this point the S is happening. For how long, I don't know. When? that too is open. My W hasn't even thought out any parameters like how much contact, how are we doing to work with the kids, are going to MC, how is that decided, etc, etc and etc. It frustrates me - and she always does this with big decions. Leaves out the details.
I don't want her to think....well I will see Harrier 6 nights a week and I"m really going to go dark except for the kids.
So after she went to bed...I broke down a little...then I got mad at her...then I got mad at myself...then I calmed down and ate some chips (this was in the span of 1/2 hour) Dang these meds put a lid on thing.
I wish I could see the positive. I'm sure it's in there. I just don't want my wife to give up and concede a tipping point.
Patience is bitter, but its fruit is sweet. --Jean Jacques Rousseau.
Times like this I wish we could skip work and grab a beer, no matter what time it was.
I'm not you and you're not me, that being said, I do not think I'd be married right now if me and my wife had not seperated. I'm pretty positive of that.
With me, it was my choice. So I know that helped me. And we did the friendship thing for awhile, though I was dealing with an OM and active PA. When a deadline came and went in regard to the OM....I took that friendship away.
Being seperated allowed me to be me, be Jack if you will. Be my own man. It helped me relaize that while I wanted someone in my life, I did not need someone in my life. I wasn't 'me' because I was married or in a relationship, I was 'me' first and foremost, who either happened to be married, or with someone...or not with someone.
I realized that I missed that guy, turns out so did my wife.
Experience is a brutal teacher, but you learn. My God, do you learn. - C.S. Lewis
Life is usually all about how you handle Plan B. - Jack3Beans
Listen without defending; Speak without offending - FaithinAK
I do not think I'd be married right now if me and my wife had not seperated. I'm pretty positive of that.
My sitch is (obviously) still on-going, but I could not agree more with this. If I was still at home, things would not be improving. I know that to be true. Look at it as a step-forward, Harrier. A very difficult step to be sure, but a step forward.
M: 39 W: 37 Married: 9 D5; S3 "It's Over" 09/26/10 11 Day Sep 10/10 Piecing Starts 11/4/10 Piecing Fails 4/11 I move out 5/11 Hire Lawyer 6/11 - Stall 6/22/11 Piecing #2 - 6/22/11 Home 10/11
but in both cases you were the ones that decided to move out. That's not the case here.
Though I'm betting your wife would agree, right jack?
I know when you moved out X, you had reach a point that it was the first step toward divorce. W wasn't working on things.
Jack, was it the same for you?
For me, that is not the case. It's like a total leap into the volcano. (now if you get that reference..then I know we could be great friends IRL) I realize it wouldn't mean the same if it there were guarantees.
The thing I struggle with now is that I find myself getting mad at my W. I don't want that anger to build to contempt for her.
I don't know how it was for you two before you moved out, but the thing is ... for me it's really good. We have a lot of good interactions, we have family time, we have some one-on-one time, but not a lot. No fights, no major conflict. etc. I know this is one-sided and my W does feel some tension, but it's not enough to not want me around. She told me today that she likes hanging out with me.
Of course there is lots missing - affection, sex, etc. I won't say that I don't' miss those.
Plus my W is dragging her feet on the IC (sound familiar XYZ) I mean I got a referral yesterday, called today and set up an appt. for Monday.
Of course, the IC maybe be bad thing in the long run. like one of these jerks who encourages divorce.
Patience is bitter, but its fruit is sweet. --Jean Jacques Rousseau.
but in both cases you were the ones that decided to move out. That's not the case here.
Thats sounds much nicer than me kicking her out.
She moved out, I do not believe in the LBSer being the one to vacate the family house because the (in my case MLC) spouse doesn't know if they want to be married.
I belive my wife would agree that the seperation clarified things for both of us and what we wanted. And she was NOT working on being married when that happened.
As for the divorce? Much like the house, it was a part of her reality. If she wanted it she would persue it, I wasn't going to lawyers and having paperwork drafted to make it easy for her.
Joe vs the Volcano? My favorite part was the moon and the lamp in the office. Going with the most likely volcano reference.
I think Harrier,
That you're more afraid of change on the BAD side. Potentially bad, not guarenteed.
Meanwhile:
Quote:
Of course there is lots missing - affection, sex, etc. I won't say that I don't' miss those.
Somethings have to change.
Quote:
I don't know how it was for you two before you moved out,
It was great! Then I found it was a house of lying liar cards (I'm going to trademark that), then it was horrible, and then it was weird, then it was ok then good then great then it was gate crashing down done horrible.
An IC...tends to promote power of self. So a marriage ins't usually at the forefront, and I tend to feel that most IC's lean toward parroting back what patient says to empower them. Empowering helps self esteem. But that is just me, and most doesn't mean all.
Quote:
I know this is one-sided and my W does feel some tension, but it's not enough to not want me around.
From your point of view? (question borderline statement)
She still wants a seperation, right?
I know you don't want this to happen, but, BUT, she does. Do you see a way to stop it without turning her heart cold to you? Has anything you have tried or done changed her mind about it, slowed it down or taken it off the table?
The only comfort I can offer you about this, is that fighting it and you'll be worn down tired and angry, and it will still happen. Does your wife miss you when it does or does she breath a sigh of relief?
Make it your OWN choice to do this.
Do not say it worked for XYZ and Jack so it save/help may marriage. But take a look at how it (seperation) help us as men, fathers, friends and finally as husbands.
If it is going to happen Harrier.
Two choice with lots of gray in between.
Make that biotch yours, not the other way around.
Experience is a brutal teacher, but you learn. My God, do you learn. - C.S. Lewis
Life is usually all about how you handle Plan B. - Jack3Beans
Listen without defending; Speak without offending - FaithinAK
