never ask, they'll always lie. if you suspect, then its probably true. mine waiting until after the ILYBNILWY speech before making the EA a PA, and justified it by 'the M was over as of that speech', and in her mind the rest was just paperwork.
after that came lies, and more lies. lies big, small and ridiculous.
and even with concrete proof, they'll still lie and justify. if it comes down to it they'll resort to the Bill Clinton defense.
The question you need to answer is: if there is concrete proof of EA or PA, is that a deal breaker for You. can You forgive her if she changes her mind and wants to comes back?
"In a ham and eggs breakfast, the hen is involved, but the pig is committed".
never ask, they'll always lie. if you suspect, then its probably true. mine waiting until after the ILYBNILWY speech before making the EA a PA, and justified it by 'the M was over as of that speech', and in her mind the rest was just paperwork . . .
That part seems to be EXTREMELY typical! I see that over and over and over again, both on here and on other marriage forums.
This is all very helpful. To verify suspected OM, I called the number while blocking my caller ID and he answered. The next day, the passcode was changed to our acct, I believe he told w and she changed the passcode-writing on wall, but not concrete, yet. I hate these backslides. I just want to know for me, really. It would explain a lot
You have more than enough information to hear what your gut is telling you.
Do you really need concrete proof? Really?
I think you THINK you need concrete proof.
In part because the hopeful side of you does not want to believe that she would turn to another man. Good Lord, TRUST me, I know how it works inside our heads.
One of the first things my mother said to me when she finally heard the news that her beloved daughter in law of over 20 years had left was, "Who is she involved with?" My Mom swears that a spouse does not leave a long term marriage without having a safe place to land.
I agree.
Sometimes that safe place is just a residence that someone has provided for them.
Sometimes the safe place is the emotional haven of another person and another relationship.
Either way the result is the same.
You just have to get to the point where you are willing to concede that your wife is GONE.
Gone to another person or not, matters not. She is gone.
Hence my post on your other thread.
Hope is good. Hope keeps our heads above water. But false hope is just delayed disaster. Be honest with yourself and you already know the answers.
After that, snooping, checking, asking, pleading, arguing...well, it's all just way beneath you, isn't it?
Who's going to walk the high road as this relationship falls? It should be you because, quite frankly, you're the only one who is really capable of being honest and showing integrity.
Tough, tough stuff.
There is more than one way to show that you "got nuts."
One way is to go all hardcore, lay down the law, talk about how you've been violated, express your utter disappointment in her.
The other is to rise above her mess, insulate yourself from it, and become a man of honor and integrity.
NOT to shove it in her face.
But because anything else is just honestly NOT who you are.
Blessings,
Bill
"Don't tell me the sky is the limit when there are footprints on the moon."
Thanks B- If I'm being COMPLETELY honest, yeah, I'm looking to blame our fallout on someone or something after owning up to my own shortcomings.
When in MC, (May)some sessions were indeed very heated from me feeling attacked..oh, how I would do things differently, now. I eventually owned up to EVERYTHING in my closet and apologized. To this day, have not heard w apologize for anything other than in an email after I was served. In those sessions, she said there was no one else. Maybe it did start post filing, who knows? just hurts still the same.
Amazing how text book w is for the WAW syndrome. Today was our first mediation appt. Mainly about the kids scheduling/visits through summer until school. W tried to sneak in money talk which was not the place. She's always sooo nice in person, sat next me in hall, etc. (which of course is because she wants to sprint through the divorce) Wish it were for the right reasons, I don't resist or help too much with the process. However, my attorney will have none of w's sh@#.
They are going on vaction for two weeks so that will be good for me and space. Really can't make a judgement on how going dark is going (minus the the new info of potential OM). Just confused of what to do with my conflicting thoughts.
Sometimes I think she wants me to pursue because that was one of her comlpaints that I was distant the last year(s) and wanted more affection. Then it was too late when I was pouring it on, she built up that wall around her heart. This blows, man!
I read somewhere (probably DR)that oftentimes, when the LBS is truly sincere in making the necessary changes to assist in the marriage to thrive once again, the WAW will not give them the chance. And, as a result, the WAW will look over their shoulder and wonder and the LBS eventually moves forward with confidence.
More importantly, the new found LBS wisdom gets put on there future relationship. So in the end, the new person reaps the benfits and should thank the xw. Just hope and pray w comes out of her fog before the gavel drops.
Yep, should have listened to some of the advice. Confronted w yesterday about potential A. She actually started laughing hard at the prospect, saying, "he is as old as my dad!" Continued by answering every "indicator" I had for cause with irrefutable reasons for aformentioned.
Oh well, 2X4's please. Learned yet, another lesson and the joke is on me once again. Such a dummy with my imagination. On a postive note, she didn't seem too offended, but very amused at the possiblity. And w claimed this isn't about me and another man, it's about me and the kids. I can not add another stressor like an EA into this she said. It's just not in me to do that behavior, I'M BEING HONEST so remove that from your mind. THERE IS NO ONE ELSE!
OK, time to lick my wounds and move on. One thing I do notice with w is that she seems to respond very well when communicating, confirming and validating her. Therefore, There's uncertainty with me when being dark. So I struggle with this a lot.
I recall near the end of MC in May, I began to stand up for myself and implement some dark techniques and w asked what happened, my whole persona had changed. W said before I was communicating so well, etc., and I thnink my response was- tired of chasing her and time to stand up for my self or something like that.
My problem is when I'm dark it's like I'm cold and not nice and believe W ties that with me doing more of the same behavior of when I was distant and quick emotioned. So I can see that connection, but when I laid it all out there (love)she ran or remained closed, or maybe she wanted to see how long my behaviors would last.
So that's about w. For me, I know (but need more consistency) that these changes need to be for me. Since communicating genuinely in the past seemed to draw her in somewhat, I think my mindset should be one in which I'm communicating with w for me and to look at it as practice for my new positve behaviors and not what I can get in return, I don't know. This is such a circus!!
So the w and kids are on vacation to disney cruise/NC/and FL for two weeks...which I was suppose to be on. This is good for me to re-center and decide again how I want to move forward.
One thing I already thought of is, since I've been dark/dim. I've been somewhat less available for the kids but not much and this really hurts me. So, a 180 for this is to really ramp up my involvement with them in addition to the sheduled visits, i.e. sport camps, swim lessons, etc, and just offer help where and when she doesn't expect it.
At first, I was spiteful thinking she wants to be a single mother of four, tough, figure it out woman. However, if I really am available, and I certainly want to see my kids more, these are ways to do that while still staying dim with w. What do you guys think?
Everyone knows how much I love my kids and was very involved..filing for divorce puts barriers up. Time to break through them.
W did just give me a courtesy text that they arrived safe and sound to their vacation spot.
W: kids were good on the drive and with just a bit of bickering from the girls, pretty typical. Also said I could call whenever to talk to the kids.
Me: I replied thanking her for letting me know and it means a lot to me knowing everyone arrived safe and to have a great trip. Said the kids can call me, too.
W: thanks, will do!
Even though I still feel slighted because I am suppose to be there, genuinely hope they have fun. Guess letting go of some resentment does feel good. Then again, maybe I'm "suppose" to be right where I am for reasons unknown currently.
