WAW Very Firm on D

[Hoping 4AChance]

Okay this is my first post to the forums. Here is my situation and personally I don't think it looks good for me. My wife and I have been together for 11 years, living with each other for 10, and married for 7. We have a 3.5 year old son and 11 month old daughter. I'm 38 and she is 34. Anyway I believe my wife suffers from very low self esteem, which I never understood as she is an amazing and beautiful woman. We have had a rocky relationship of shorts, mostly because of her self esteem issue. She ALWAYS needs attention of some sorts. For whatever reason she seems to seek it out in OM in the form of EA. However this only occurs via email except for the last one. That was phone calls and text messaging. In any event the last one was end of December. Then January she hits me with the I want a D. Anyway I got her to go to counseling. We went a few sessions and she was fine and excited about a new marriage. Unfortunately I dropped the ball and spent 6 months not trusting and scrutinizing her every movement. In any event June 8 we have a blow out. I sat up thinking about it and was finally able to let go. It felt like an elephant was lifted off me. I told her the following morning and apologized. I even admitted in great detail how poorly I treated her. It actually hurts me to think I treated her that way. So on June 10 I get hit with I want a D again. No fighting since the blow out as I was very happy. She was so firm I moved out the next day, I was served the following week, and there is no way she is changing her mind. One thing about her, she thinks thing through before doing them. So I call coach on here Chuck a little over a week ago and he suggests reading Divorce Remedy. I start with LRT and thought I was seeing some positive responses from her, but she is super hard to read as she is probably the nicest and most naive person on the planet. She desperately wants to be friends and close friends, but no more relationship. Needs a new life she says. Work friend meets her husband on E-Harmony and talks her into signing up. Friend even pays for 3 month membership. Now she is having what I would believe an EA with a guy from NYC. Strange thing is we live in Michigan. She would never move out of state as she needs to on top of her parents and I would never let her move the kids out of state anyway. Unless this guy is planning on moving to MI, why would you pursue anything with him unless you want nothing more than attention. Well This has caused me to shift gears a little with her and I have since went dark. Am I doing the right thing? I feel if I call or let her call then I am giving her cake and eating it to. Not to mention if the D is going to happen I need to detach and spending time on a family day once a week as well as talking and texting daily or every other will make it quite difficult to detach as I want something more than a friendship. I told her no friendship Wed. night, no communication yesterday, and she texted me about having having the kids this weekend which I replied to. The only thing I never replied to was her last text when she asked me how I was doing. Any advice or should I begin to move on?

[jbnati]

Sorry you're here, man, but you're in a good place.

Definitely read DR multiple times.

Right now you have to look for the small positives, and it's probably going to take some time effort before you will start noticing them.

One part of DB'ing is concentrating on what you CAN control, and that's YOU. Don't be so concerned with what your W is or isn't doing. She's going to do what she's going to do.

[Hoping 4AChance]

Thanks jbnati.

I have read DR so many times I think I know it word for word.

It is hard to see the small positives as the small things she does is just natural in her personality. I mean she has been super nice throughout all of this, but I'll keep looking. I think by going dark like I have she may miss me or show signs she does. Nonetheless I guess all I can do is play it out and see what happens.

I have been for the most part focusing on GAL as I am assuming it is going to play out with me being single once again. Surprisingly this has been fairly easy. I mean I still think about her all the time but it hasn't been too depressing as I'm usually in the company of friends and such. So I can somewhat keep my mind occupied.

[jbnati]

I have read DR so many times I think I know it word for word.

Good step, glad to hear it.

I think it takes awhile to really see the small positives. I think you do have to play it out and see what happens.

I have been for the most part focusing on GAL as I am assuming it is going to play out with me being single once again. Surprisingly this has been fairly easy. I mean I still think about her all the time but it hasn't been too depressing as I'm usually in the company of friends and such. So I can somewhat keep my mind occupied.

Sounds like you've been doing a good job at getting the GAL down. I know when I started doing it, it was very liberating. Also, you are competing with what your W is envisioning as an ideal problem-free lifestyle.

I think she is going to have to miss you. It sounds like you are doing a good job on picking and choosing which texts to respond to. I think you should always respond when kids are involved.

[Hoping 4AChance]

Ok and update on whats going on. I decided not to become dark anymore and maintain a friendship with the wife. She really wants to be friends and have some family time together once a week or every other. I do know her reasoning is for the kids sake only. However I feel its a great opportunity for me to show her the changes in me and to show her they are here to stay. Anyway we were texting a bit today and somehow the topic of eharmony came about. It turns out the guy she has been talking to from there was from NYC but moved here. I cautiously encouraged her to go out with him on a date. It killed me to do it but I had to at least give her the perception I support the idea and I have begun to move on and GAL. So it looks like tonight I have the kids overnight instead for the day so she can go out on her date with him. It will be a group setting, 4 of them going to baseball game. It kills me that she is going but I do feel I must support and encourage. She has encouraged me to date as well. Said I am a great guy, just not for her. The frustration!!!!! However I kept my cool and told her to have a great time. I'm not exactly sure if she knows what she wants, but I am completely without a doubt sure what she doesn't....me She is so difficult to read as her personality type is all about friendship and such. She has to be the nicest person on the planet. Even through all this she has been extremely nice from day 1. Any thoughts or suggestions?

[~ kd ~]

Thoughts...? Yeah...

What were you thinking?

You stopped being dark so you could be her friend so you could encourage her to go on a date with a possible EA and enabled her by helping out with the kids...

I get that you are expecting your sitch to end in D, so I'm guessing this is your way to step it in the right direction?

[Hoping 4AChance]

Well the EA is already there as they text all time. Very limited phone talk. At some point she was going to end up on a date with guy one way or the other. I figured why not help it along a little. Most likely it will fail anyway. When the new wears off she will enter another EA with somebody. A good possibility would be me. Not to mention she gets to learn the grass isn't really that much greener. This also is a complete 180 for me as I know she is expecting me to flip out. I am trying to be supportive in everything and encouraging. Even the divorce itself. This has got to be the friendliest divorce I have ever seen. I am 99.9% sure my D is going to happen, but you never know.

[Grocerykartman]

I decided not to become dark anymore and maintain a friendship with the wife. She really wants to be friends and have some family time together once a week or every other.

In my opinion, THIS is okay, it's very hard to go completely dark with someone you have kids with and hope to save your relationship with. It doesn't have to be all or nothing during this process, but, it do beleive it should be closer to nothing, and more dark than light.

I do know her reasoning is for the kids sake only.

How do you know that? Just asking.

However I feel its a great opportunity for me to show her the changes in me and to show her they are here to stay.

Please be careful here. It can take a long time to convince yourself that the changes are permanent. I think you need to be confident in yourself first. Have you truly reached that point?

I cautiously encouraged her to go out with him on a date. It killed me to do it but I had to at least give her the perception I support the idea and I have begun to move on and GAL.

Well, you already did it so I'm not going to 2x4 you. Let me just ask you, how does encouraging HER to go on a date correlate to YOU moving on an GAL? It feels to me like you're lying to yourself that you don't care or have moved on?

So it looks like tonight I have the kids overnight instead for the day so she can go out on her date with him. It will be a group setting, 4 of them going to baseball game. It kills me that she is going but I do feel I must support and encourage.

If you hated this the whole time she was there and don't want to experience this feeling again, don't do this again.

She has to be the nicest person on the planet. Even through all this she has been extremely nice from day 1.

Well, not really, she is walking out on her marriage. Keep that in mind.

Look, I think I see what you're doing, you're trying to make it seem as if you don't care. But you're lying yo yourself, which, in effect, is lying to her too. You canb't show her positive chnages when you are actually bringing in negative ones-which are your own mind games right now where you are fooling yourself.

Let us know how you are feeling after the big date here, and how things are going. The board will help you through this. But, I would not go about things this way from hereon.

I wish you well.

[Grocerykartman]

At some point she was going to end up on a date with guy one way or the other. I figured why not help it along a little.

How did you feel the whole night she was at the game though? What about YOU?

Most likely it will fail anyway.

I read and hear they often do, and my WAW's involvement with OM seems to have dropped off drastically. But do you want to assume this?

When the new wears off she will enter another EA with somebody. A good possibility would be me.

It feels to me like I'm beating up on you, so I'm hesitant to even say this. But you're really making a lot of assumptions here. You're assuming she'll get into another EA. You're also thinking a good possibility would be you, but right now, she's leaving YOU. Does that make sense? I don't think you want to take for granted that there is a strong possibility she'll come back to the man she is sending through the wringer right now.

What I really mean is, you seem to be strategizing. I don't want to see you have this fairly detailed blueprint of the future on your mind, and then end up disappointed.

I DO think you have the right idea about not freaking out. But I think you may be setting yourself up for disappointment if you essentially encourage her to see the OM and just assume it will fail. Be very careful thinking that way. I'm not at all saying you can stop the A, you can't. But I don't think you want to ENCOURAGE it either. If it continues on its own, handle it with class, but encouraging it is just as bad as acting up over it. Why? because it's phony enocuragement. You don't mean it, so why lie to yourself? Unless you felt happy when she was at the game-but that's hard to believe. Don't sell YOU and your emotions short.

I am 99.9% sure my D is going to happen, but you never know.

But, you conclude with this, which is contradictory to the last topic. So, let me ask you this-which do you honestly think is going to happen? Will she see the grass is not greener, or will she go through with the D? Or option C, which is, you just don't know what the future holds?

Hoping, in short, I simply notice a lot of statements in your post where you have sort of written the story before the story actually gets there. I urge you to spend more time reflecting upon yourself and how to make you feel best about yourself, rather than trying to foretell how she'll be acting and thinking later on. All you can control is you.

Best of luck to you.

[Hoping 4AChance]

Well W picked up kids this morning. I asked her if she had fun last night and she said she didn't go out. I have to assume she was truthful because knowing her like I do she would said she had fun with her friends or whatever. She said she didn't go out because she wasn't feeling so well. I don't know if I exactly believe that but it is possible. I am exploring the possibility she got cold feet, or she started to feel some guilt or whatever, but truthfully I don't know what her reasoning was nor will I beat myself up trying to figure it out.

As for how I was feeling the whole night she was at the game. This is under the assumption she was there because I didn't find out about the no going out until this morning. Anyway I only thought about it a couple times briefly. It didn't make me depressed or anything like that. I don't know why it didn't.

I do want to assume that her involvement will the OM will fail. It's really hard to explain, but it's a very strong likely hood it will. She has very low self esteem and is all about EA. I never understood her low self esteem as she is gorgeous and very caring. Truthfully in my eyes an amazing woman.

I know I make a lot of assumptions about me being her next EA, but there is a pattern with her. Our marriage was riddled with several EA with her ex-boyfriend. Only email and nothing else. I always asked her why time and time again it was always him, and she told me it was because besides me he was the only other person she ever loved. Now as my sitch goes, she is firm on the D, but yet doesn't seem to want me completely out of her life. Wants to call to just chat once in a while. Said she misses talking with me. She wants to spend a day together as a family once a week or every other. She keeps asking me if we could do something soon. I just reply let me know when. Now I know the family day was my suggestion a couple days after the bomb dropped, but she appears to be pursuing it. I do think her reasoning is for the kids, but I can't eliminate the possibility of it being for her as well.

I know you think I'm setting myself up for disappointment by thinking A will fail, but truthfully I won't be disappointed if it doesn't as I still am preparing myself emotionally in the event it does work out. It's hard to explain why I feel this way, but I do want her to be happy.

As for your question I would answer A & C. I really do not know what the future will hold, but I do believe she won't find the grass any greener. Let me explain. She has a pattern of trying to live a fairy tail life in her mind. When she would tell friends about things we did or whatever she would ALWAYS pump it up some. I would listen and think to myself that's not even close to what went down. She expecting not hoping for a fairy tail life. She was thinking she would be out all the time with friends and such. That isn't happening. Her friends are married and have families and have trouble getting away. I haven't even hung out with my best friend since this ordeal started as he has a family as well and just doesn't have the time. When I have the kids her time is spent doing household chores, grocery shopping, yard work, etc. All things I used to do. When she has the kids she is at her parents all the time. So far the only difference has been I'm not there to help her out around the house. She even is talking about getting a second job just to make ends meet. Goodbye fairy tail! It has always been my belief the grass isn't any greener on the other side. If asked I tell them some things are indeed greener and some aren't, but for the most part it's brown on both sides. It's all what you make of it.