WAW, and a bisexual open marriage part 3

[Young at Heart]

+1 ^

And now to share something I just read that screamed out GB's situation. This might be an interesting article for GB to read with his wife to see if it is indeed what she thinks. Then again, this might allow you to play with the fire that you seem to want. In any event you and your wife are adults (at least once she grows out of her MLC).

Personally, I am one of the folks described in the article who is really into monogamy and value its clearly stated advantages for a heterosexual couple.

So GB, here goes an interesting reading assignment for you that should take you on a swing of emotions. NY Times article on what a loose view of monogamy is: Married, With Infidelities

Good luck

[25yearsmlc]

GB,

you said you dated other women before and had r's with them. Did any of them

threaten to cheat on you when you fought? Or when they wanted more attention or were bored?

Your wife extorts you with threats to do porn either to hurt you (or as you euphemistically put it, to "get a rise out of" you)

and she does it also whenever you mention managing money like adults.

She uses OPs as a trump card in fights b/c imo, she doesn't fight in a healthy way.

In fact she blows up or berates you for small "errors", e.g., leaving laundry in the wrong place, or some other minor infraction that healthy people at most, remark upon in a nagging way

but She escalates those minor matters into what you call "full blown" fights.

Sounds like she's a bit of a female bully b/c she has little control of her temper & little interest in changing that.

She has virtually No conflict resolution tools b/c she sulks/pouts/extorts/manipulates or blows up if she doesn't get her way.

Worst, to me, is

her withholding sex from you as a routine method of controlling or punishing you.

Other times she says she's having vague feminine problems for which she doesn't seek medical treatment. Can't ml then, or

when she's got a headache, isn't in the mood, feels stressed, needs a shower & hates feeling dirty, Or just took a shower and feels all clean, or it's not Tuesday...

Sex is her trump card and weapon and

for YOU it is your love language, possibly the only one you've got with her..

hey GB, while I am still rooting for you, what I mean is that

I am rooting for you to be treated with a normal level of love & respect.

I cannot say that it's likely to be with her,

but I wish you well. But IMO,

if you don't make some changes in YOU and how YOU handle her behavior,

to change the dynamic you two have

you will be in this "tragi-drama" the rest of your life.

((( )))

[greenblue90]

25
As usual I totally agree with your assessment. After having read no more mr nice guy, I think I can definitely say that dynamic has improved dramatically. She has actually been wonderful the last 2 weeks, she apologizes if she is wrong, she drastically loses her temper less, she wears her band, we now sleep on the same bed, the list goes on about ways that our M is way better. I might even venture to say that we may be piecing.

All that being said we definitely have our issues. As ugly as the last incident was, it is no longer the norm like it used to be, it is merely a MLC relapse. One which I think I handled well.

All that being said something interesting is happening. I haven't heard open M talk in months from her, in many ways she has become more jealous, and instead of being excited about all the adult clubs we could be exploring together, she is very weary and apprehensive of them. She is constantly looking for reassurance on her looks, and is very worried about her weight. (yes, she is still a 00 size). Then yesterday, she asked me if I thought the local women were more attractive then her. All of a sudden it made sense. The higher jealousy, the constant need for reassurance, even the low interest in sex. (she's been known to be one of those women that withholds sex when they have low self esteem).

She is seriously threatened by the local women. They're subservient, have small frames, have exotic looks, and most of them are looking for green cards. (well the ones that aren't just plain ladies of the night). We have already had this conversation a few times:

Her:
"why is that local girl dressed like that, and what is she doing on post?!"

Me:
"what do you think..."

Her:
"she can't do that on post!"

Me:
"maybe she's waiting for her boyfriend"

(ugly American walks up and greets her)

Her
"how can she be with that, he's hideous!"

Me:
"yeah but he has "American green" card stamped on his head that makes him gorgeous here"

So I have been having to do a lot of reassuring. What does this all mean?

I think it may be the opening I need. For one PM is very good at addressing issues of insecurities in sex lives. Especially when it comes to body image issues. This would be a great opportunity to build stronger bonds as we work through these issues, and we work on making her feel loved and attractive.

Secondly this may be what I needed to end this open marriage thing. Since 1. Even ugly guys can get good looking girls here ( and I am way above average) so she could be easily replaced, 2. Sex is way more available here whether through random hook ups, or just outright going to one of the many adult establishments service members can legally frequent here.

In many ways the playing field is level here, and I can get as much action if not more than her. I think all of a sudden monogamy may be more attractive to her. I don't know, maybe I'm being naive, but I can tell I'm not taken for granted anymore. Only time will tell, as I had said in previous post if she is so adamant about this open marriage thing it will be done on equal terms. This includes opening the door to losing me, just as I stand to lose her.

As I said we both have a lot to work on. Things are definitely getting better. Going to try to reintroduce PM again, need to read NMMNG again.

[greenblue90]

I need to state that I dont intend to pursue anything, I just want her to realize how much I'm worth, she means a lot to me as it is. Not looking to do something dumb. Just want her to realize she shouldn't take me for granted.

[25yearsmlc]

seems like a pretty drastic (and temporary?) way to level the playing field, so to speak


but maybe....

whatever works??

[greenblue90]

Last night I made fun of a girl in the street, and she instantly replied with why are you looking at her?!

I tried saying it was nothing and that I was making fun of the girl. She still wouldn't drop it and said that if I was going to be looking at women maybe she could do the same and more. I told her fine let's go to a club now so we can do do it. She stopped and said are you trying to pick a fight?! I said no but I can tell you are. I'm not but you're acting like a jerk. I told I wasn't trying to pick a fight. So we both dropped it and moved on.

Phew this whole low self esteem and jealousy thing can get out of control fast!
I need to sit her down and reassure her that I only want her, and make sure she feels the same.

So here is the goal:

"to make her feel loved wanted and independent to the point that she feels she'd be a fool to risk it all by putting in OP's."

Right now she is having trouble Mentally adjusting to our new home. I can tell she is very threatened by the locals, she keeps feeling that they are smaller and more attractive than her. I've seen this amount of jealousy before and over the years I have learned it's over her insecurities of losing me to someone with qualities she does not have.

Unfortunately she is also one of those women that goes into ssm mode when she has body image issues so now I have that going against me too.

So yes she consider herself to be so ugly right now that ml would show to me how truly undesirable she is. So she avoids all ml, on the other hand she knows that what she is doing will just make things worse so she know worries that I'll get my fill elsewhere, thus the new extreme jealousy. Funny how a few months ago I was the one worried about her straying.

I have to say this type of behavior is typical Schnarch. She is projecting her insecurities into the bedroom, with repercussions outside of it.

So we have both ends of the spectrum:

Previously she took me so for granted that she felt she could demand OP's without worrying about losing me.

Now she worries about losing me so much that she gets very jealous.

It's that happy medium we need to find. She needs to feel attractive and desired, and not just by me. At the same time she needs to know that despite feeling good about herself OP's would put the relationship in serious risk. This needs to be a risk she is not willing to take.

As said before it's nice to not be taken for granted anymore, and besides the lack of ML our intimacy levels are through the roof. We are way more affectionate with each other now than we have been in years. Don't really see her much as a WAW anymore, I think we MAY be piecing. Yet I wouldn't be surprised if our piecing is harder and longer than other couples. I can definitely tell she is trying to make this work. I truly thank god for that.

[Young at Heart]

So here is the goal:

"to make her feel loved wanted and independent to the point that she feels she'd be a fool to risk it all by putting in OP's."

....Right now she is having trouble Mentally adjusting to our new home.

...I've seen this amount of jealousy before and over the years I have learned it's over her insecurities of losing me to someone with qualities she does not have.

Unfortunately she is also one of those women that goes into ssm mode when she has body image issues so now I have that going against me too.


....I have to say this type of behavior is typical Schnarch. She is projecting her insecurities into the bedroom, with repercussions outside of it.

....She needs to feel attractive and desired, and not just by me. At the same time she needs to know that despite feeling good about herself OP's would put the relationship in serious risk. This needs to be a risk she is not willing to take.

As said before it's nice to not be taken for granted anymore, and besides the lack of ML our intimacy levels are through the roof. We are way more affectionate with each other now than we have been in years. Don't really see her much as a WAW anymore, I think we MAY be piecing. Yet I wouldn't be surprised if our piecing is harder and longer than other couples. I can definitely tell she is trying to make this work. I truly thank god for that.

So any plans on

...to make her feel loved wanted and independent...?

If she were to mature out of her MLC, would that improve her independence?

If she had a job, and respect from coworkers, would that improver her independence and self respect?

From what you are saying, especially about the increase in intimacy, it sounds like she is feeling more loved. Do think she is feeling more loved? What might make her feel even more loved?

Do you think that time will be the best way for her to understand that she can rely upon your love or will she always wonder if she could loose you? Maybe her MLC was not so much about testing herself with challenges to see what she really wanted. Maybe her MLC was in testing you to see if she could get you to leave her? People sometimes do things subconsciously.

What do you think might be a good path for the two of your to proceed?

I am glad that Schnarch is resonating so strongly with you. Marriage certainly is a crucible.

My suggestion again, would be to show and tell her that you really love her every day, that you want your marriage to be something that everyone is envious of and to help make that happen, you would like the two of you to talk to a marriage counselor not to fix you, not to fix her, but to help the two of you become even closer. That is what some sex therapists do and what most couples weekends do.

I really think that you have done a lot of ground work that a skilled marriage counselor could work with.

If for some reason you want to continue this DIYS project, then may I suggest that you next read up on setting boundaries and building self-confidence in your wife; that you work on getting her a job; perhaps getting her some training in something that will improve her self image (i.e. GAL for her). Is there something that she wants to do (besides porn or modeling) that she might be able to achieve in say two to three months of part-time training/study that would change her self-image?

Also if I were you (I seem to remember that you said you had some photography skills) I would start taking pictures of her (absolutely nothing pornographic or even racy) but art-like with beautiful and famous backdrops and maybe get some of them framed and placed in your house, in your wallet, on your desk at work, on your facebook page and framed as presents to her parents and relatives. Make her look lovely in the pictures (is she isn't don't let her see them), so she will see herself in a new light. Maybe take her to a fancy department store and pay to have a cosmotician professionally apply make-up prior to going out to take photos of her. The goal is to give her something tangible for her to see that says you find her beautiful and lovely, something that when others see will cause them to say that the picture of beautiful and she is lovely.

Good luck, it sounds like some of the pieces are falling into place in your understanding of your wife and what is happening.

[25yearsmlc]

when you speak of wanting to

"make her feel x" so that she won't "do" or "feel" a certain way

you are simply discussing how YOU can change HER.

You want her to behave differently,

and at some level you know that's not going to work,

and it's not the focus you need.

The focus you need is on why YOU interact the way YOU two do

and to accept that you cannot change her.

Then,

deal with the reality of what that probably means for the rest of your life.

[greenblue90]

Quick update:

Good week, with one unfortunate relapse that lasted about 20 mins before a light reconciliation. That being said her temper has been a little more volatile than in the past month. Which leads me to believe that there are issues that may be being created or resurfacing.

That being said she is still suffering from low self esteem. We have been trying to get a doctors appointment for this prolonged period but in processing here moves like molasses. Hopefully we'll have an appointment by Monday. We don't even have a home yet, and are living in lodging. These are not excuses just my reality.

25
I do think that some things especially the important ones can be changed. I came to the realization a month or two ago that in order to build the R I want I need to learn how to for once demand what I want for myself. Even at the risk of my marriage. I had to value myself, and realize that I too deserve to make demands, like being treated fairly and with respect. Yeah youre right I can't change her, but like I chose to change for her. She needs to choose to make changes for me. All that being said for the most part she has. Many dynamics in our R have changed for the better.

The marathon is not over yet, but were definitely getting closer to the finish line.

[Starsky309]

You sound like you have a much more healthy, balanced attitude about this all now, G/B.

I know you still have a tough road ahead of you, but I also think you've come a long way.

Starsky