Oh, let me be more clear about "fix"ing it... Fix feeling bad. IOW, you don't have to love your W or be attracted to her. Fix in you the feeling of bad about yourself and change it into a feeling good about yourself. Feel good about who you are, your worth.
And regarding the anniversary...
I completely understand those who will say that acknowledging an anniversary can be a good thing and is worth considering or doing.
It is a situation of whether it will help or hurt the sitch.
In my sitch, it might help. It might hurt. It is the little things. But I will not risk that it would hurt the sitch.
My W acknowledged my b-day. It neither helped nor hurt the sitch. I did not acknowledge my W's b-day a month later. It neither helped nor hurt the sitch. We spent last X-mas together with family. It neither helped nor hurt the sitch...
We will likely still be M on our anniversary on Aug. 11. At this time, I will not be acknowledging our anniversary. Based on past results, it will neither help nor hurt the sitch. If things change and we are talking R by that time, then I would, as it will likely help. Until then, I will put no more emotional energy into trying to figure out if it is right or wrong, good or bad...
Firstly, Kaffe, thanks for your feedback, much appreciated, thought I had become invisible for a while then LOL
Originally Posted By: Kaffe Diem
Hey GM. You sound otherwise well.
Nothing much about the convo you had with your W. An overall sense that you did well. Could you have done better? Sure. Could you have done worse? Absolutely! So use that as a benchmark for future convo and do better on those.
Vague comment from me? Yes. Point is it was your experience and for you to decide what could have been better. Make sense?
Yep, all a learning experience for me. Using the phrase I can do lots to make things worse, and not a lot (or nothing) to make it better
Originally Posted By: Kaffe Diem
Regarding how you used to feel that you would get back with your W if you both acknowledged your contribution for where you are at and both worked towards making things better, there are a couple things to remember.
The LBS may never have the WAS admit and acknowledge their contribution to the sitch. Not good or bad, right or wrong. Just the way it could be.
While it would be nice, even considered to be a perfect condition, the LBS wanting or expecting admission from the WAS is a black / white condition. A possible deal breaker. And it is self serving.
We discuss how validating our S feelings (not their actions) is positive and appropriate. In being here and the reason and purpose for DBing is for us, that we are doing the work, does not mean that our S is doing the work or will ever do the work.
Your feelings of not being sure you want your W back could be because your W is not validating your feelings. You do not see her doing the work and you've placed a condition of her doing the work as a reason to consider getting back with her.
Or... it could be a condition of further detachment.
Only you know the answer to that.
Bit of both I suppose.
I have acknowledged my share of the blame so to speak, owned and dealt with it, and I know what effort would be required from me moving forward. If W is not willing to do this for her “share” however, I don’t want to get back with her as to me that would show lack of effort to make US work and acknowledge her contributions to the failure of our R.
Originally Posted By: Kaffe Diem
I neither want my W back, nor do I want a D. If my W came to me today, a month from now, or a year from now, after we are D, I would consider if she is someone I would want to be with. Not because of the past. Not because of what had or had not been done, said, etc.
I would get back with my W for the same reason I married her in the first place. It would be because I love her and want to make a future with her. What I would know for certain, the only thing I would know for certain, is that I had owned my past short comings, not just in my prior M, but in prior life choices and Rs and that I have learned, grown and become a better man because of it.
Excellent way to put it, will bear in mind, fab
Originally Posted By: Kaffe Diem
Love is a choice. Right now, your choice is not to be attracted to your W. Figure out why you feel "bad" about it and "fix" it...
Originally Posted By: Kaffe Diem
Oh, let me be more clear about "fix"ing it... Fix feeling bad. IOW, you don't have to love your W or be attracted to her. Fix in you the feeling of bad about yourself and change it into a feeling good about yourself. Feel good about who you are, your worth.
I feel good about me, but I don’t know, I suppose I think I "should" find my W attractive and want to be with her as she is my W, that make sense? But I just thought she looked a mess…. Actually thinking about it I suppose I felt sorry for her, that’s why I felt bad. Well shouldn’t do as this was not a choice I made, I need to carry on my journey.
Thanks Again
Me - 37 W - 38 D - 14 S - 12 Together - 16 Married - 12 Bomb - April 13, 2011 W moved out - May 13, 2011
The man I became is changing back to the man I was........... and more
Good stuff! You sound emotionally healthy, for the most part...
Only you know what is and is not a deal breaker for you. If you need your W to acknowledge and make amends or "do the work", then that is what you want.
Simple acid test: In any future R or M, would you give your new love a form to fill out, describing her past Rs and what she learned and how she grew and what she plans to do to ensure that your R and future with her will be perfect and last forever? Would you poke around, enrolling others to give opinions on your new partner. Looking for dirt so that you could have proof that your partner isn't trying or hasn't learned anything from their past?
Would you fill out same form if required by some future partner?
A touch of sarcasm there. A leading question, to be sure.
Still, the point is... If your W was someone else, someone you were not previously involved with, how much of her past would you bring up as a gauge for your R with her?
Or would you simply trust that you will be better with a new R or M and be the best that you can be and believe that your new partner will be the same?
Your choice remains your choice. Not good or bad, right or wrong. Simply your choice.
And if it is a deal breaker for you, that's cool by me... I often rethink what I consider to be deal breakers, and I drop some and add others, depending on where I'm at.
I wanted to take a couple of days to think about this Kaffe, one of the best Q put to me.
I said right from the beginning that we were BOTH unhappy, and W admitted to me she treated me like SH*T and had been a bitch to me, I know my faults and are addressing them, although minimal (W has only said that I talked down to her and that I am a great guy). I took a deep look at myself and the situation and determined MY needs and wants out of life. Back at the start of this I said I would only get back with W (if on the table) if she were to address HER issues and faults and work to putting things right that I was unhappy about also.
Whilst up to your question this would have been a "deal breaker" for me, and I would not have looked to have W back if that possibility arose, but now I suppose that if W was willing to come back that would indicate that she would be willing to work on the issues, no need for me to specify them up front. I cannot control or influence that, and don't intend to even try, I only control me and W is on her own journey.
Your right in that I wouldn't ask a potential new partner what life experiences they have and how they would have addressed them.
This week has been strange, in that earlier in the week I "thought" I didn't want her back as she has become someone unattractive to me and is in a very strange place, however I am now not sure again what I want. SO, I have decided and chosen NOT to think about that scenario right now, time and place!
Me - 37 W - 38 D - 14 S - 12 Together - 16 Married - 12 Bomb - April 13, 2011 W moved out - May 13, 2011
The man I became is changing back to the man I was........... and more
I have just been reading back through my original thread and have only just read your detailed response to my lengthy first thread (on 28/05/11 @ 2.24pm), don't know why I have only just seen it all (I only saw the first few paragraphs, must have been due to looking at it on my cell)
Looks like I still need to learn some things
Journaling
I know I have posted a few times on how we were both unhappy and W's perception of how she treated me, but please don't take it as I keep going on about this, I just post this in case people haven't read all the information (which there is lots here). I can forgive both my W for her contributions and my own and learn from them.
I noted down the other day some of my 180's directly related to W (not GAL or kid related), these are:
Talking down to wife (although I didn't realise it) - Being more aware of what I am saying Lack of attention - giving compliments and not being critical at all Always trying to fix things - Let W find things out for herself (less caretaking) Trying to give my opinion - Let W find her own first, offer opinion if required Trying to show or rationalise what is right or wrong - Not preaching anything, let life show the way Disagree on how W feels - Validate, and have said "I'm sorry you feel that way" on a few areas Being confrontational/defensive - Listening more, reacting less (still some backslides) Not looking at W all the time when talking - Being focused on W when talking and looking into her eyes.
Don't know why but I have a sense and urge to apologise to W for my contributions. I did say sorry for a few things discussed on Sunday and W has said a few times is that the new you, and has noted the things I am doing with the kids, so actions are starting to come though.
Apologising now, is it worth it? I am not looking for a reaction, I just feel its something I should do, as thinking about it I haven't really done it in detail, just bits here and there. Or should I just show actions to back these things up?
Me - 37 W - 38 D - 14 S - 12 Together - 16 Married - 12 Bomb - April 13, 2011 W moved out - May 13, 2011
The man I became is changing back to the man I was........... and more
I had to call W yesterday regarding issues with the kids as S12 was home alone. I left a vm message to give me a call, didn't say what it was about and she returned my call straight after the meeting she was in finished 15 minutes later. W has always responded to emails, text or missed calls straight way, (before going dark, OK grey) which I find kind of strange if she wanted nothing to do with me.
Towards the end of the convo I did mention to her that I thought she looked tried and that I could see she had lost a lot of weight when I saw her on Monday, W said D14 had told her I had said this already. I said I hope you are eating properly and not just surviving on coffee, cigarettes and wine as I was concerned. Maybe I shouldn't have said I was concerned, but as we hadn't spoke for 2 weeks (when I went dark last), she may have thought I didn't care, esp as I haven't been chasing or asking her or anyone how she is. I suppose that's the point DOH!!!! Beating myself up here! But I wanted to keep the path home smooth and paved if this is what I or W want down the road. I also said that we should communicate better with issues regarding the kids, irrespective of what is going on between us.
W picked up S12 last night, and again I was cool and looking good. W looked good also in a dress (W usually wears trouser suits; think she made an effort after Monday!)
One good thing over the past week or so is that I haven't felt that "knot" in my stomach before I knew I would be speaking to or seeing W. Really have noticed this!
The conversation last Sunday keeps me thinking
Convo (as previously posted) W - Would you have me back after everything that has happened? M - Only if we both realise how much work this would take and the effort needed by both of us W- I wasn't asking if you would take me back, I was just asking W - I don't think we could get back together
Maybe I should have responded with what I have always said, and said right at the start of this (i.e. I haven't changed in that I don't think our problems are insurmountable as I have said before)
I really want to ask W what she meant by "after everything that has happened"
Neither of us have been with OP (as far as I am aware), we have had no arguments and slanging matches, or run one another down to others, so I am curious. She knows how much she has hurt me (at the beginning I did all the wrong things like most, except the begging) maybe that's what W meant, and the other facts.
Plus why was W "just asking", test the waters? Try and mess me about? Defensive response as I didn't beg her to come back? IDK
As posted elsewhere, maybe she is starting to feel remorse, but doesn't know how to piece things back together, esp as I am not chasing or trying to fix things like I used to (180's here!)
This is my main problem on the detachment side IMHO, trying to look into things, the rest is OK, it's just this bit.
W we next see me on Sunday to drop the kids off, which is our 12th anniversary, but not going to mention it, may use the date to apologise.
W will be joining us on Tuesday next week when I take the kids bowling as this is what D14 wanted for her birthday get together. W seemed uncomfortable on Monday when I bumped into her, let alone spending a couple of hours together, but fun time only with the "old and improved" me, no R talk.
Me - 37 W - 38 D - 14 S - 12 Together - 16 Married - 12 Bomb - April 13, 2011 W moved out - May 13, 2011
The man I became is changing back to the man I was........... and more
A couple moments to comment on just a small part here.
Originally Posted By: GAL Man
Whilst up to your question this would have been a "deal breaker" for me, and I would not have looked to have W back if that possibility arose, but now I suppose that if W was willing to come back that would indicate that she would be willing to work on the issues, no need for me to specify them up front. I cannot control or influence that, and don't intend to even try, I only control me and W is on her own journey.
Nicely played....
It is said in many different ways:
+ Be the change you want to see
+ Where the mind goes, the heart follows
+ We get what we give
+ Life is a mirror of us
In the end, it begins with us. No matter where our journey takes us. Because we are on a journey as well, without doubt.
Introducing conditions around R or M increases the possibility of failure.
Conditions are OK, without a doubt. And the less conditions we can safely / comfortably allow, the greater the opportunity.
W didn't come bowling with us last night, didn't think W would, but bit annoyed as W only told D14 30min before we were due there, not for me but as I could have asked my brothers family to come, plus D14 wanted W there as this was her birthday event. Had a chat with D14 and she was OK, we had fun anyhow. D14 called W to ask why, and W said that it was too soon for us (Me and W) to get together as things were complicated!
I actually saw W about 4 or 5 time last week, with the last on Sat when she was asking me where I had been and who I had been with, but I was just coy and changed the subject. I did get the cell back from her which S12 now has and he is well chuffed.
I left her a vm message on Friday just clearing things off my chest, apologising for some things so I don't have to again.
Emailed W on Monday just saying about the bowling that I wanted to have fun with no arguing as kids were concerned, W replied with some stuff about not coming, about us and asked for my thoughts, which I replied it was her choice etc.
I also sent an email following this up to be absolutely clear. The main part was that I felt our problems were not insurmountable still (if still the same) and that we could have a better future together and as a family, but I accept her choice that W didn't want this, and I no longer wanted to discuss it.
Me - 37 W - 38 D - 14 S - 12 Together - 16 Married - 12 Bomb - April 13, 2011 W moved out - May 13, 2011
The man I became is changing back to the man I was........... and more
I have been thinking about things today and have realised that W had sucked my right back in.
At the beginning of last month I went dark for 2 weeks, and had no contact what so ever. Then when we saw each other to swap the kids over this is when she asked if I would have her back, then turns around and says she was only asking. Then in the past couple of weeks W has asked about me again, who I have been with etc, then some other comments asking for my thoughts, whilst the questions appear quite innocent they were, I felt, fishing.
I feel stupid now looking at it, that the dark period was working, she tested the water, sucked me back in, got a reaction from me, then off she went again, now back to square 1. One thing though is that I have acted differently, and W has passed comment a few time saying is that the new you again, plus I have been calm and not reacted angrily or been bitter.
I am now going to drop the rope and go dark again. I want to do this now (not even seeing W when the kids swap over) for at least a month.
GAL activities still OK
The 3 days I didn't have S12 at the end of last week were busy, Thur seeing friends, Fri poker night till early hours, then out Sat day garden work (this is when W came round) and Sat night in town. This weeks GAL activities with the kids (usual stuff, Tue bowling, Wed Starbucks etc) plus Transformers 3D on Friday, and my brothers 40th (and 5 years clear of cancer) party sat night.
Not going to post so often over the next few weeks, just a couple of times a week, unless something needs sharing!
Me - 37 W - 38 D - 14 S - 12 Together - 16 Married - 12 Bomb - April 13, 2011 W moved out - May 13, 2011
The man I became is changing back to the man I was........... and more
