my heart is breaking

[25yearsmlc]

boy was he a fan!

And I'm not saying that a part of me didn't find it fascinating. I hunted/fished and snowmachined a lot. I learned to fly a plane. I killed (and consumed) a caribou.

But the darkness for months (SIGH)...and h was strange the month we got there too. We arrived when I was almost full term with our 3rd child (idiotic of me to consent to a move then, and leave a great support system at that time BTW)

We had a newborn and he just went AWOL on us. Fishing/hunting every weekend. I was stuck with a newborn (bless her heart for being an easy baby) and the "DEATHLY COLD" (per the newspaper) and the coming dark...geez...

So part of me probably was "irrational" in that I had a bad taste of it right off the bat when we moved there and he got wacky. Bought expensive items without discussion, more than once, even after it was clear how hurt I felt about that. Totally new behavior on his part. So I associated his selfishness with the place b/c that's where it surfaced and until he got it out of his system, years later,

he didnt' seem able to shake it. Didn't want to either.

"That which we resist, persists."

That's why I think HB has to let her h seek out his version of freedom.
She needs to back off and pretend she's had an awakening, until it's true she'll have to fake it. Her present approach has done nothing

although at least they're on good terms.

Particularly if there's no OW, there's a good chance he could turn this around in a year.


But the more she clings, the more he'll struggle to free himself. Whatever it is that feels like a trap to him-he needs to feel he's setting himself free

(and I know my doctor h felt trapped by choices HE made,but seemed to think had "happened" to him, sometimes subconsciously blaming me e.g., leaving one career to enter a new, relentlessly demanding career, having 3 kids, being in the military for a chunk of it, buying a big house, etc)

They need to feel Free to choose what they want and they'll only CHOOSE

if they are free.

All the speeches and talk about marriage vows and commitment just sounds preachy, self righteous and oh, btw, is NOT effective. Plus it's clingy and controlling. Guilting a man into returning NEVER lasts that I know of.

That's why all the speeches and manipulations miss the point.

Heart, if you only knew how much time i WASTED on figuring out the exact right words to say and the right thing to wear or what to do...

you'd learn fast NOT to repeat my mistakes.


Please don't fret about your h's past or his childhood...this is DB land and we focus on solutions, meaning

what will help my M today?

Not how did HE feel about his mother, or what happened to him when he reached puberty?

Those questions have their place

but it's not here. You're wasting time on your version of his journey and where

you think his solo trip should go


and it's NOT YOURS to figure out.

Please let go.

Read Laura Munson's article --(I bet I already suggested this)

"Those Aren't Fighting Words"....

she let go.

He returned.

You have to start taking our advice or at least acknowlege you are not taking it

so you don't think it's DB that not working. It's you lacking the focus and discipline to follow through...

This DB stuff CAN work. But you have to do it. Re-read the 37 rules I posted to you about DBing.

Re-read the posts you find helpful....but please stop the pursuit! You are repeating yourself and your actions...it's not working so why keep doing it?

Cheeseless tunnels...find another route...trust what we are telling you.

Have you hired a DB coach?

Back off and GAL and change YOU so he can someday believe that marriage to you

can be different. He does NOT want the old M....

have you changed at all? What have you owned in this?

Yes you say you didn't treat him as well as you should but that's an easy answer.

As I've said before...you have to dig deep and be brave. (I dislike repeating myself, just so you know... )

Enough of blaming him and involving others.

That's easy to do, but never helps.

Own your part, change, show him BY ACTIONS

that it could be better.

He could have his best friend and lover,

also be the woman who is the mother of this children.

BACK OFF...read the posts you already have b/c you already have the answers.

[25yearsmlc]

kermit

I called you "heart" in my post b/c I got tired and just saw the title of the thread.

But it's to YOU.

[kermitdfrog]

Saturday I got up, felt good and went about my day. Laid out in the sun, talked to friends on the phone, and just generally felt fairly upbeat. One of the reasons was that I started thinking maybe God intervened and set up situations to slow the D down (not only is my H busy with his mom in the hospital, but he has some fear of potentially losing his longest-term contract, which I keep thinking would make it hard to afford this divorce!)

But then, the phone rang. It was H saying he was on his way over with the financial papers for the divorce. He couldn't stay long because he needed to get to his nephew's reception. Dang! I seriously felt so let down. Besides that, he said "You know, you don't really need to sit with my mom if you don't want to. I mean, with the rest of us at the party and everything. I'm trying to be sensitive" and of course my emotions took over. I said "You know I would love to be at the party" and he said "Then why aren't you going?" and I said "I don't feel wanted. If the circumstances were different, I'd be there. But it would be awkward" and he said "Of course you're wanted. (nephew) would love for you to be there." And I just said "No, S and I are going to see your mom. Have fun and tell everyone hi" I got off the phone and cried. Later I texted him and said I was sorry for getting a little emotional on the phone. I said "I am better now" Anyway, I was in the shower when he came by, so I didn't see him. I was really hurt that he didn't at least come in the bathroom and say hi.

So S and I went to be with his mom at the hospital. I am actually really glad we did. She seemed happy we were there, and she was missing the party, as well, so I was glad we could brighten her day. We gave her some ice cream, and I fed it to her, and I texted H at the party to tell him that she was doing well. They all were worried about her I'm sure. After the hospital, S and I went to dinner and then to get frozen yogurt. It was really kind of an enjoyable night.

So later, H called me from the party. He seemed to want some reassurance. Some of the family accused him of being insensitive because he keeps saying he thinks his mom is dying. He also gave some of the grandkids some things from her house that they had been promised. His sister got upset because she thought he was acting prematurely, since no one knows if she will be able to go back and live in the house yet. I actually agree. I have felt like my H has been in a hurry to "get rid" of his mom, like he is doing with me. Anyone who stands in his way of his career and "ministry" he just wants gone. I'm not saying he wants her to die, but she is cramping his style so he wants her gone. In a nursing home, or whatever. He really has gotten cold and unemotional. It's sad. But anyway, he seemed a bit stressed about it so I tried to comfort him. He also asked my opinion on how I felt she looked. I told him I thought she was doing fairly well.

So tonight D came over and had dinner with S and I. It was a bit easier than the last time we had a family dinner. It's just so hard without H. But I got through it and we had a nice time. D leaves for Arizona in two weeks (for a 10 week physical therapy clinical). I will miss her so much.

Our financial papers are due Tuesday. Gosh I wish he would put the D on hold or better yet, cancel it. The kids still haven't heard from him on what his answer will be. They are leaving him alone in hopes that he will come to them with a positive answer. But I just don't think that will happen. But still, I pray. I am trying to look at the possibility that anything I do right now could be a test. To help him decide.

So that was yet another weekend. I just hate weekends.

[25yearsmlc]

Did you read my post to you?

[kermitdfrog]

Yes, 25, I did read it. What were the 37 rules you mentioned? Also, as far as repeating myself, I am far different in these posts than I am with him. I often use this to vent so that I don't do it with him. I almost never contact him (only do with a banking or household business question, and even then I text, I don't call) I really have tried to GAL. When I speak to him, I try to sound very strong and happy. My problem is as soon as he says something that tugs at my emotions, I turn to mush and before I know it I say something I regret. It really hasn't been frequent, though, and there has been nothing really major for a long time. I NEVER bring up our R. I almost wish he would, because my DB coach said that would be a chance for me to prove that I've changed. She says Pain=opportunity. Before he filed, whenever he would talk about his feelings I would get upset, and he would say "You know, in order for me to feel connected to you and safe, I have to be able to tell you my feelings without you getting upset or judging me" So I know that's one of my biggest issues and one of my biggest regrets. If I had made him feel safe back then, he may not have left. I just can't seem to be able to stop the overwhelming sadness when he says anything that makes our "separateness" real.

[25yearsmlc]

not going to the nephew event though you were invited AND keepingyour son from going

doesn't seem healthy and going to his mother's seems like you wanted to do it to get a reaction from him or his family

I don't know. But it's not detaching for sure.

Your post was all about how to get HIM to do or say or feel something and it

just comes off as desparation from you.

I'm just wondering what it'll take for you to be more

disciplined about this


b/c either you don't buy into what we (and your DB coach) are saying


or you lack discipline.

OR you don't really want this...


You decide. Don't think it was easy for me or anyone else here.

We were all scared and all felt rejected and confused.

But we eventually made a choice to act with a consistent approach for at least awhile


to give it a real try.

How are you going to feel if things don't improve and you

have never really DBd?

[kermitdfrog]

Thanks for your response 25,

I did not keep my son from the event. He and my daughter refused to go. They don't want to be around their dad. (the intervention dinner was the first time in months)

I went to see his mom to help him and because it was the right thing to do. I am trying to be the supportive wife that I should have been before. He really is under a lot of stress and I want to help. It was absolutely not to get a reaction.

Again, I really sound a lot more crazy and desperate here because I am using this to vent and get my ugly feelings out. I do not sound like this with him.

My DB coach actually thinks I am doing a pretty good job.

Detaching is definitely my biggest challenge. But I continue to try. I'm a work in progress.

[25yearsmlc]

Saturday I got up, felt good and went about my day...

But then, the phone rang. It was H saying he was on his way over with the financial papers for the divorce. He couldn't stay long because he needed to get to his nephew's reception. Dang! I seriously felt so let down.


So here HE is changing the way YOUR whole day went...way too much power to give someone else...and that's just one example



Besides that, he said "You know, you don't really need to sit with my mom if you don't want to. I mean, with the rest of us at the party and everything. I'm trying to be sensitive" and of course my emotions took over. I said "You know I would love to be at the party" and he said "Then why aren't you going?" and I said "I don't feel wanted. If the circumstances were different, I'd be there. But it would be awkward"

This reads as "please beg me to come b/c I am a needy teenager needing reassurance"...AND who likes to guilt her h.



and he said "Of course you're wanted. (nephew) would love for you to be there." And I just said "No, S and I are going to see your mom. Have fun and tell everyone hi" I got off the phone and cried.

This is the martyr act you do with him. You wanted to guilt him AND feel like a victim too. NOT attractive and NOT working...

Later I texted him and said I was sorry for getting a little emotional on the phone. I said "I am better now" Anyway, I was in the shower when he came by, so I didn't see him. I was really hurt that he didn't at least come in the bathroom and say hi.

Again with the victimhood and self inflicted injuries b/c you have expectations. That is something NOT helping you or your sitch...Have NO expectations.

So S and I went to be with his mom at the hospital. I am actually really glad we did.
So later, H called me from the party. He seemed to want some reassurance. Some of the family accused him of being insensitive because he keeps saying he thinks his mom is dying.

Did HE tell you this?


He also gave some of the grandkids some things from her house that they had been promised. His sister got upset because she thought he was acting prematurely, since no one knows if she will be able to go back and live in the house yet. I actually agree.

This is appalling.



I have felt like my H has been in a hurry to "get rid" of his mom, like he is doing with me.

I don't see this as being about you. IDK.

Anyone who stands in his way of his career and "ministry" he just wants gone.

What "ministry"?

I'm not saying he wants her to die, but she is cramping his style so he wants her gone. In a nursing home, or whatever.

Regardless of his giving away property that is not his to give away, how do you KNOW any of this^^^??


He really has gotten cold and unemotional.

Hope you don't share these objective helpful observations with him b/c they might sound a tad judgemental.


Our financial papers are due Tuesday. Gosh I wish he would put the D on hold or better yet, cancel it. The kids still haven't heard from him on what his answer will be.

You know the answer for now is to go forward with his plan. Assume it is. Let him go and find his way...(read the many many posts I and others have sent to you). Are we all wrong? We all seem to be giving you almost identical advice...

They are leaving him alone in hopes that he will come to them with a positive answer. But I just don't think that will happen. But still, I pray. I am trying to look at the possibility that anything I do right now could be a test. To help him decide.

Yet you still behave in ways that are NOT helpful to your cause. WHY??

How on earth can he feel marriage to you now, would be any different or better than before

when you repeat the mistakes and still try to control the results??

Geez, If I truly thought my m was being tested

and that my behavior was being monitored

and that my choices might really make a difference,

I sure would Stop doing what I know does NOT work...




So that was yet another weekend. I just hate weekends.

You need some GAL things for weekends, obviously.

I don't mean to be harsh with you but I feel it's tough love time

b/c you are so stuck and a lot of this is


self inflicted

and NOT working....

You are stronger than you realize, so give yourself a chance.

Try NEW behaviors.

Yes they are uncomfortable at first

true, they don't feel "right" at first


but how does rejection feel? Um not so comfortable either.

At some point you will just have to become so sick and tired

of feeling sick and tired


that you will DO ANYTHING to get out of your pain,


and that is when you'll be ready to change.



I think til then, not much anyone can say that matters I fear.

[kermitdfrog]

25,

You are absolutely right about my H having too much power to control my moods. That is much of the problem. I am just so depressed about the situation, and so much of my life included him, it's been difficult to find joy knowing he may be out of my life forever. Wrong, I know. Just being honest.

My emotional comments to him on the phone were impulsive and something I need to get a grip on. Those are what I referred to in an earlier post as "foot in mouth" moments. Believe me, they happen much less frequently then they did before. What my DB coach said to do is rehearse those potential moments ahead of time. His comments seem to come out of the blue and I'm not prepared. Before I even catch myself, I've reacted in a way I later regret. Usually it's just a comment, nothing more. But still.

Yes, he did tell me that his sister was upset with him for telling her daughters that their grandma was dying. (even though the doctors are not saying that) Also, the items he gave away were items that their grandma had on a list for them to inherit. But his sister felt it was premature and insensitive. I agree, but I DID NOT TELL HIM THAT. On the phone, I was reassuring and supportive.

Yes, I feel he is wanting to get rid of his mom because she is in his way. That is how he has handled his life in the past year. Our MC has told me that, as well. He runs away from or gets rid of everyone or anything that stresses him out. In recent weeks he has been a caregiver to his mom, and it has gotten in the way of his career and "ministry". Even in the midst of medical emergencies with his mom in the last couple weeks, all he seemed to talk about is the meetings he had to reschedule and the work he was missing. And his "ministry" refers to a comment he made when he told me he was filing for divorce. He said his job was something he felt God wanted him to do, and is a gift. He actually said it was his ministry and he didn't see me as a "minister's wife". (His job as a management consultant allows him to restore companies, improve relationships and culture, and the inner city and it's schools, etc, are his latest passion) I find it ironic that he brags about his talents to "improve people and cultures" while the people closest to him are falling apart because of him. He brags about his talent for improving relationships and developing peoples' potential. Our MC says it is because he can't handle communicating difficulties with people he has intimate relationships with. Clients (and even the OW) are at an arm's length.

25, I don't mind the tough love. That's why I am here. Believe me when I say that I have come a long way, and like I've said before, I don't say to him the things I say here. I use this to vent so I can keep myself together with him. My number one problem is when I get my hopes up and then he will say something that gets me upset, and I don't handle it as well as I should. I need to be more prepared for those times. I was doing much better before he filed. Now I feel pressure. Plus, my 50th birthday and our anniversary are coming up in the next month, and I will be spending those days very differently than I would like.

I love my husband very much and treasure(d) our long marriage. I am also a very emotional and sensitive person. Controlling those things is the hardest challenge I have ever had, but I agree that I have to be more vigilant if I want any chance for bringing my husband back. Thanks, as always, for the wise advice.

[kermitdfrog]

So my D had a flat tire today, and decided to call her dad (although she has avoided him). When they said goodbye, she said "you know dad, it sure would be nice to have an answer." (referring to her and S's intervention with him) He said "I'm thinking about it" She also said he was wearing his wedding ring (she checked just in case) and he mentioned me, fondly, a few times. While he was with her, she mentioned that she was coming to our house tonight to have dinner with me and our S. So., later, after he left work, he called me to see if it would be ok to come and have dinner with us. I played it cool and didn't sound excited. I just sounded pleasant, and said "You're always welcome here. That would be really nice" So he came and we had a wonderful time. It is the first time in 6 months that we have all sat together at the dinner table. It warmed my heart, and the kids seemed so happy. Also, both when he arrived and when he left, he hugged me tightly and kissed me on the mouth. It almost seemed like old times! Almost...
Also, his mom is doing a bit better and now has moved to the retirement home. His sister and brother are in from out of town.
Does it sound at all like a good sign? Why would he want to come over for a family dinner if he wants out of the marriage? He has to believe it would lead me on. But who knows. This journey has so many twists and turns all I can do is hold on and experience the ride.