Hey World, I'll update you the best i can without any mind reading. I rarely interact with my W. We have the occasional text or e-mail but nothing more.
Wife is angry/nuetral unless you disagree with her. Then she gets pissed and defensive right away. I try to stay as far away from that as I can. My oldest son questioned her about her handling of middle son and got the defensive bithcy attitude right away. He had to get up and walk away. He talked to me about this later and I just listened and validated that he was upset. I wish there was more I could do but there just isn't. A positive interaction is one that the concerns for kids are addressed and thats it. My oldest two stay with me and have limited interaction with her. She occasionally tries to interact with them. It would be a guess if it is out of guilt or responsibility or any other number of reasons. I try and do my best as a father for them. They don't like the choices there mother has made. They have both told me that she has cheated. Again don"t know if it is true or not. I live my life now. Not one that I chose but a GAL life. It has gotten much better than the early days. Sometime I think I wouldn"t want her back if the opportunity arose but that is proejecting something that may never happen. I do work on being humble(tough), a good father, on meditating, GAl'ing, living spontaneously, having fun laughing, crying, feeling. Basically living. If I'm relegated to being a single Dad I want to be able to embrace. Am I there yet? no im a work in progress. No divorce papers yet. They could come any time I suppose. Again it would be mind reading to make a guess. Nothing is selling right now so the rentals have been tough. Its a little added pressure but again thats life.
I'm glad your wife is connecting with your kids. My kids are not a priority with my wife. She has made that comment to people so I know that is true as it stands now. Hopefully she wakes up at some point.
Hey World, This is just to get some thoughts from you on things I have lost in this journey.
Trust - I think I may have been nieve. I totally trusted my wife. She would go for girls weekends etc. Never had an issue because I trusted her. If we would be out with friends. She would dance with a friend once in a while. didn't think much of it.
This is something that bothers me. I did trust and that hurts that it went down this way. Sitting here tonight I actual thought that was how marriage worked. Two people trusting eachother. I still don't have the answer where I misread the tealeaves on that one. I think i read it right for 20 yrs but the MLC monster came. Thats what I think.
Also, Even know I am Gal"ing. It doesn"t feel normal. Maybe people who have done it longer will say it comes with time. I am not as sad and those times are becoming shorter and shorter.
I miss physical touch and connection with my wife. Yea I do go out and its a good time with friends, but not the same. I know I'm not ready for anything serious at this point.
I usually ask what i'm to learn from where im at in life. I have learned a few important details on my shortcomings. I would be a better husband if given the chance.
Just some random thoughts world.
Let me know some of the things you have lost and gained in this journey.
Why? you can"t trick your way through an MLC. The MLC knows! thats why a lot of stuck people.
It has to be for me or I'll never be the father, man, husband that someone would find attractive. Do or do not there is no try.
You can fake it but only for so long. Above I said it doesn"t feel normal yet. I am a work in progress as many are on these boards. I will make it, just like getting through MLC I just don"t know what that looks like yet. Time!
virtues of DB, like 180's, going dark, etc. These techniques are all manipulative behaviuors designed to extract a changed / positive response in the other person. It is because we care for the other person and seek to change our circumstances through our actions.
... well then, you're doing it wrong!!
Perhaps they are sometimes deliberately presented as a way to manipulate a change in someone elses behaviour - but what they are really about is learning to behave in a more healthy way than we did previously.
Going dark, may present as a way to make your lover miss you ... but what it's really about is giving yourself the space to calm down and be still with yourself. It gives you space to take the focus off your partner and on to yourself. It's a way to Detach from the drama. It's a way to take yourself out of the drama and be able to consider your options with a clear head. It's a way to manage your emotions.
Let's think about 180s? For me, my 180s almost exclusively consisted of releasing control. Control was a big issue for me, I thought I could control/manipulate any situation. I thought it was my right to. It was a survival instinct for me. "If I do this ... he's likely to do that ... ". It was an unhealthy way to live. LIke living your life as though in a chess game, constantly trying to "out-wit" your competitor.
My 180s were all about actively living the belief that my partner had a right to make his own decisions about his life and I had no right to try to manipulate him into doing anything "my" way. At the end of the day I figured I wanted a healthy partner, one who wanted to be with me because he wanted to be with me ... because I am a catch!!!!
What are your 180s? Do you think they are actually about relearning something that you've been "guilty" of - that you probably had to relearn anyway in order to evolve as a man and a human spirit?
Ahh sorry Spirit, I tend to just read the posts and then reply, I was responding to MLC, and since you had the last post, it made it look like I was replying to you. I was not suggesting you were doing tricks. My apologizes.
Experience is a brutal teacher, but you learn. My God, do you learn. - C.S. Lewis
Life is usually all about how you handle Plan B. - Jack3Beans
Listen without defending; Speak without offending - FaithinAK
Well guys, you have your ways and I have mine. I'm not into "tricking" anyone. I am first and foremost interested in changing what had become a fast deteriorating / toxic R with my W after Bombs #1 & 2. Divorce attornies, threatening legal letters, strained relations. My anger had worked against me and so my first and most important 180 was to release myself from that anger, forgive her for her choices, forgive myself for being so myopic about our R and the problems it had, and choose to interact with her in a positive fashion at ALL times. I have reaped my rewards in this regard. I am happier, and I'm sure she's happier about me.
Any other things I've tried as 180's, gimmic or not, was done to see if I could impact a positive change in my W. As DR states, if it's not working stop doing it. If it is, keep it up. Pretty simple concept. I have a healthy view of myself and life, in spite of the speed bumps that have occurred. I have changed. But remember, we did not cause this MLC, nor can we "cure" it. However, you can work to manage your own feelings and self worth in the process. That is all I seek. If I one day get my M restored, great. If not, I will still be the better person for it.
My W may not be done yet with the OM, but I assure you my chances of restoring my M are much better if things are kept positive. That said, I'm very fortunate she wants to interact in this manner. Others are not so lucky, so my heart goes out to all the DB'ers that try so hard to be nice to their WAS's, but only get lumps of coal in return. That is not my sitch, so as I said, I play my cards relative to my circumstance. I would play them much more differently if she was hostile. I guarantee you she's already looking at me in a new way.
Will I change forever or revert back to old behaviours? Not likely. This has been too traumatic an event. Not too prone to keep sticking my finger in that light socket. Have I become a better person, better father, better son? Definitely. I thank my W for this. Even if she becomes my X. Again, the power is viewing your sitch as the glass half full, not half empty.
As for your cake J3B, eat as much you like. It always ways a very odd saying! Wordy? Glad that pleases you.
I am so sorry that your W is so far in the tunnel that she does not even want to interact with her kids. For now, mine would like to see the kids more, but they reject her. Since she's non-confrontational, she does not push it. I try not to get in the middle, but encourage them to see her if the conversation warrants it. We are all in counseling together. However, this is her burden to bear.
Trust? That's gonna be tough if one jumps right back into the R. But if we are EVER lucky enough to take it slow with our W's, then I believe that trust will be restored. You will know how to replenish her love tank, as opposed to how we both failed at this before. We WILL be NEW men, so I trust we won't forget our lessons.
Lost or gained on this journey?
Things I lost: 1) I lost my illusions that I was a great husband. Fair to average maybe, but great, not even close. 2) Lost my sense of invincibility. Gone, completely. Replaced it with an giant plate of humble pie. Yum! Good for what ails you though. 3) Lost my best friend. Won't forget that anytime soon. 4) lost 25 lbs in 30 days. Stress is a very effective diet. Since replaced with exercise and low blood pressure.
Things I gained: 1) much closer R with my daughters. They need their rock, and I will ALWAYS be there for them. 2) Taught them how an adult should react to adversity. Things like dignity and respect. They may nt agree with their mom's actions, but they must treat her in this mannger. 3) I've gained back a good chunk of my own self respect. Gradually getting my own life. Slow process, but Rome was not built in a day. Patience is the standard. Hard though, very hard at times. 4) gained a good working relationship with W by reframing my interactions with her as ALWAYS positive. I'm not saying I smile and dance like Bo Jangles in her presence. I just don't react to any information she gives me that might insight anger. No matter the topic, I simple agree and ask questions. No judgements, EVER. Always positive. Always.
Good luck to you Spirit. I massively appreciate the chance to correspond with you. It is most therapuetic.
Much appreciate your parsing of my post. We all do this for free, and I know you want me to "get it" as it is apparent you feel I don't quite yet. I am trying and all these collective insights are most important to me.
However, I do like to get understand where people are coming from when the dispense advise to me. I see you first joined the forum in Jan-10. So what's the status of your sitch? You've got 188 pages of posts dude, so I'm hoping to get a quick run down on you. Ran out of time to track down your current status. You definitely sound like you been down this road for a while, so I'd be much obliged to hear about how your sitch has evolved.
180s? Mostly just me attitude toward life. I listen more. Actually worry a lot less about money and the future. These were major issues for me. Getting kicked in the nuts gets your attention. Kind of put things in perspective in a major way. For now, just maintaining a postive outlook, being their 110% for my kids, and not concerning myself with what and with whom my W is up to are enough for me. I actually am enjoying me time alone more and more. I do get out, but I increasely crave this "me time".
One day at a time. I am so lucky on so many levels. Great kids, good friends, great career, company and employees, great income (even after paying spousal support). Really, what do I have to complain about? Not one thing, that's for sure. I W left me? I have shed my tears, but must put that aside. I miss her, yes. But I believe I would have been crushed by most of the adversity I read about on this board, and I have the utmost respect for all who are brave enought to post here.
