Seems to me that newbie guys like me are generally dead men walking.
You are only a dead man walking if that is what YOU choose!
You are in control of YOU.
You have no control over your spouse but you do have control over what YOUR life can be. That is the essence of DB. MLC is a process. We must all accept the process. We can make it worse but we can not make it better.
The true facts are that the LBS is normally the one that decides that it is over. Most give up or go into another relationship. But that is YOUR decision, no one elses.
As far as your children are concerned, you can just be the BEST possible DAD in the world. Your children will notice and they too can heal. Let them make their own relationships with their MOM. That is not your problem. They will decide and she will have to put on her BIG girls panties and live with the consequences of HER decision.
MW MLC takes TIME, as an LBS all you can do is make the best use of your Gift of Time.
By dead man walking, I mean failing to realize or accept the magnitude of the situation. Of course I'm in control of my own actions, and cannot control my W. I think I've got that figured out by now. Ironically, part of DB / 180s, etc. is impacting change in your S through your own behaviour. In essence, this is an attempt to nuance or control / steer an undesirable situation in a desirable direction.
Truer words were never spoken about us making MLC worse. However, I disagree in that I feel we can make our S's MLC better by being more accepting of the situation. A lot better in fact. Mine has for sure.
One of the common traits of all us LBS's is that we are most all loyal to the core. I AM a good parent to my children and that is why they chose to stay with me. I'm stable, loving, give them wise counsel and support, and show them how to act as responsible human beings. My kids are smart and they are already forming their new relationship with their mom. It is up to them and I do not stand in the way. They are in family counseling with her to try and sort this out, but mostly it is time that all 3 need to form their new relationship. The kids know that they are loved by both of us, and that's all that matters.
As far as MLC taking time. No kidding. I think I get that already. If my W just wanted to stay in separation limbo for a few years, I'd actually by OK with that. But she wants the D, so I must accept this as part of the MLC process. I have bought some precious time recently, so we shall see and hope for the best. But this I can assure you, when the D finally occurs. I will move on. I will always treasure our years together, but it would be unhealthy to live in the past considering that she has already gone on to a whole new life. Strangly, I admire those who continue to stand long beyond their D, but admit I don't quite understand. Part of healing is accepting, and I will accept my sitch and continue to make the best of my new life. Both in the here and now, and later if and when my D finally does occur.
Much appreciate your time to consider my situation.
Sympathize with you, immensely. It's hard to accept especially with the kids (I have four under 10). Noticed our WAW spouses bothed filed on 4/1..cruel April fools joke. As a LBS, finding just a bit of happiness in the moment can help us. Take your own advice because you're a good man and deserve happiness. Peace.
Yes, by most accounts I did treat her well. Spoiler her rotten in fact. But what she really craved was Quality Time, and while we spent a lot of time together, I was generally self-centered about my own problems. I really did not listen to her closely and try to understand her problems and fears for her future. She was quiet about it, but that's why we must listen carefully. If I had, she might have entered her MLC and steered it in a much more positive direction. Instead, she found a sympathetic ear with OM and so I must accept the error of my ways and my contribution to her MLC.
Yes things do change. We can effect that change with our own behaviour. Both in good and bad ways. It is a very powerful concept once you become aware of it. No matter what / where my W ends of going, if she is willing (and I believe she is), WE will make the best of our new relationship. She will eventually move on from her current OM, as even she admits it is temporary and all she craves is life as a single, indepedent woman. I believe she understands he is unhealthy for the kids as their R is what ruined our marraige and the kids will never forget that. When and if she finds someone new, her life and that with her daughters will be much healthier. Would love to think she will view me in a new light one day, so who knows, maybe one day we may come back together. Stranger things have happened. If not, then not. I will have no regrets.
While getting out in the world is fun and necessary, dating is not on my horizon for the foreseeable future. My mind is not in it, and I don't think it would be good for my kids either. Don't need both parents going sideways. However, just being out and about, wine tasting, getting glances from the opposite sex, is very healthy indeed and I enjoyed it thoroughly. I will do more of this as it is important to start my journey to my new life. Slow, but easy is the plan.
Cadet, I admire those who continue to stand long beyond their D, but admit I don't quite understand.
To understand this you must understand that
MLC is a process.
I believe in MLC, I believe in the process. I understand the process. I understand that MLC take TIME.
Originally Posted By: MLC World
it would be unhealthy to live in the past
I absolutely believe you are correct about this!
That is why we must look in the mirror and make changes for US!
Not to win our spouses back but so that we are not stuck in the past. This is a very hard concept and something that has taken me a long time to understand.
Take it one step at a time and you too will begin to understand.
I think the goal here is to find a way to use my W's MLC to make changes in me in as many positive ways as possible. I've always said that a little humble pie is actually a good thing. Too much and you might choke! However, it does cause one to look in the mirror and I spend a lot of time doing this. I have my bad days when fear and sadness creep in, but I am growing every day and moving toward my own happiness. It will take time, but I'm actually kind of excited about the possibilities!
Not sure your wife is in MLC though. If she's not trying to act and dress much younger, working out like a mad woman (much thinner), staying out late and partying with "new" friends, lying about a number of things, and of course, gives you the ILYBIDLY speech, then it's likely not MLC. Thank your lucky stars!
However, from reading your sitch, it does sound like your W has been haboring her resentments for a long time. My bet is she's got some pretty caustic advice from someone who just stoked her resentments over time. Take her advice and start being as amicable as possible. You will see a big change in her attitude. You may still end up D, but your choice is to have a "bad" or "worse" time in the process. I choose bad.
It sounds like to me she does love you still. Is there anyway to press for an extended separation period of say, 3 to 6 months, to let things cool down some? Is there any way to get away from your attornies and into mediation? This also helped cool our sitch down immensely.
Good luck to you. All those kids under 10? That is harsh man, just harsh. It really takes two parents to manage that many little ones effectively. Hang in there with your stress. Just agree with your W, no matter how "right" you feel you are. You will not win. But you can make your "new" relationship with your W much better.
I get that MLC is a process, and it is most always a lengthy one at that. It is quite possible that my W's MLC will extend past the date of our future D, if she gets her wish for independence.
If then she moves onto another (hopefully healthy)relationship and the handwriting is on the wall for their future, well then me moving on is the wise and mature thing to do. Hoping for a turn around in this sitch is delusional to say the least. If she later decides she's made a mistake and we start warming up to one another, then I'd certainly be open (assuming I am available). I will never say never.
If after the D she remains single, but friendly to me, I too will continue to stand, continue to work on myself, and see which direction she eventually takes. It may include me, it may not. I would love nothing more than for her to one day realize the value of what she has given up, so standing under those circumstances would be just fine by me. She would be worth the wait.
Yes, by most accounts I did treat her well. Spoiler her rotten in fact. But what she really craved was Quality Time, and while we spent a lot of time together, I was generally self-centered about my own problems. I really did not listen to her closely and try to understand her problems and fears for her future. She was quiet about it, but that's why we must listen carefully. Ever read your own posts? They reveal a lot of contridictory things here.
If I had, she might have entered her MLC and steered it in a much more positive direction. Instead, she found a sympathetic ear with OM and so I must accept the error of my ways and my contribution to her MLC.
How are YOU different now?
Yes things do change. We can effect that change with our own behaviour. Both in good and bad ways. It is a very powerful concept once you become aware of it. No matter what / where my W ends of going, if she is willing (and I believe she is), WE will make the best of our new relationship. She will eventually move on from her current OM, as even she admits it is temporary and all she craves is life as a single, indepedent woman. You don't bring OM up do you?
I believe she understands he is unhealthy for the kids as their R is what ruined our marraige and the kids will never forget that. What does that ^^^ mean? How old are the kids? WHat do they "know" & how?
When and if she finds someone new, her life and that with her daughters will be much healthier. Would love to think she will view me in a new light one day, so who knows, maybe one day we may come back together. Stranger things have happened. If not, then not. I will have no regrets.
I will do more of this as it is important to start my journey to my new life. Slow, but easy is the plan.
Sounds good...what stage is the div in?
And I have 2 family members who div, only to remarry their former spouses years later...yes it was YEARS later, but it was also better the 2nd time around.
Hope you have a great week!
World
Just curious, why do you label this as MLC? Why not simply a WAW?
I am not saying either way but I do think a lot of people who want the label of MLC b/c they think it increases the chances of recon, but I don't know where the empirical data is that supports this.
I think when women leave their m's the reason they are generally less likely to return
is b/c they have little to NO love left in their "tank" and if there were, they'd stay m.
Meaning they wait til there's nothing left before leaving and so
then, when the h "gets it" and wakes up and really changes, it's too little too late.
So it's great your changes are for YOU...
if true, all I can tell you is this
1) if you become the man she always hoped you'd become, then the love she once had may well resurface in time,
when her choices are not challenged so often that she's forced to defend/cement them (back off and don't bring up OM) AND
the love will resurface, IF AND WHEN she believes your changes are real AND lasting...and;
2) no woman is unmoved by the loving interaction between the father of her children and them. Be the best father you can be, b/c it's right...and attractive as heck.
Have you seen the 37 DB "rules"? They sure do help. I may post them below.
Good luck, hang in there.
I recommend copy and paste on Word and print it out. Carry it in your pocket if you have too.
1.Do not pursue, reason, chase, beg, plead or implore! This turns the spouse completely off!
2. No frequent phone calls to spouse.......let him/her be the one to call you. Then don't try to hang on to your spouse through conversation.....instead, you say good-bye first.
3. Do not point out good points in marriage or try to get him/her to read marriage books, look at your M pictures, etc. Especially, do not get him/her to read the DB/DR book. That is for you only!
4. Do not follow your spouse around the house like a puppy dog trying to get his/her time and attention.
5. Do not encourage talk about the future. They don't want to think about a future with you at the moment, so stay clear of that subject.
6. Do not ask for help from family members or friends. Don't discuss private matters with them that would upset your spouse.
7. Do not ask for reassurances (That is showing neediness and being clingy.) Show self-respect and self confidence.
8. Do not buy gifts to make "brownie points". (Can't buy his/her love and affection.)
9. Do not schedule dates together at this point. (That is pursuing.) Save for later when the R is much better.
10.Do not spy on spouse by checking emails, phone bills, etc. (Not good for you and will make matters worse.)
11.Do not say "I Love You" (It is being "pushy" and trying to make your spouse say it back to you......he/she will despise you for it.)
12.Act "as if" you are moving on with your life with or without them and that you are going to be okay. Keep a good attitude.
13.Be cheerful, strong, outgoing and attractive at all times! In other words, be the best you can be and look the best you can look at all times. Even when wearing jeans and T-shirt, wear good cologne, b/c it does cause the spouse to take notice.
14.Don't sit around waiting on your spouse to see what kind of mood he/she is in or what he/she is going to do or say – get busy, think of things to do. Go to church, go out with friends, etc. in order to get a life for yourself without waiting on your wife/husband.....but it is okay to invite them, just don't act as if it will change your plans if they do or don't go.
15.When at home with your spouse, (if you usually start the conversation---then don't, wait for him/her) then, be rather scarce or with your words, but don't sound rude or too short like you are mad. If your spouse asks what's wrong....just say "nothing" and have a pleasant expression on your face. Keep it short and simple. Don't get into an argument! Stay polite and don’ t act like you are pouting. Use poise and class. This does not mean to act like you aren’t speaking, but don’t be overly talkative.
16.If you are in the habit of asking your spouse his/her whereabouts, ASK THEM NOTHING!! No matter what time he/she comes home! You are giving them space and asking no questions! You enjoy your time with your kids, friends, etc. Remember, you are getting a life, also.
17.You need to make your partner think that you have had an awakening and, as far as you are concerned, you are going to move on with your life, with or without your spouse.
18.Do not be nasty, angry or even cold - just pull back and wait to see if spouse notices and, more important, realize what he/she will be missing. (But never ask him/her if he/she has noticed any changes!!) This is important! If you do, then you have blown it.
19.No matter what you are feeling TODAY, only show your spouse happiness and contentment. This can confuse some of them b/c it is not what they expected. Show your spouse someone he/she would want to be around all the time, somebody that can be attractive and fun to be with. That somebody is you! Don't overkill in your attempts to outshine another person your spouse may be having an A with (if there is OP in the picture) to the point of looking like your attempts are "fake" b/c your spouse will see through all of that.
20.All questions about marriage should be put on hold, until your spouse wants to talk about it (which may be a while)so this takes patient on your behalf.
21.Never lose your cool! Don't let your spouse trap you into a fight. Don't take her/his bait.....leave the room or the house for a while, if you have to, in order to avoid a fight.
22.Don't be overly enthusiastic, don't over-kill; in anything you do b/c it will come across as fake.
23.Do not argue about how your spouse feels about something (it only makes his/her feelings more negative.) Only they know how they feel!
24.Be patient......very, very patient. Give your spouse space and time. When you pull back, it will draw them towards you. It feels opposite of what you want to do, but it works!
25.Listen carefully to what your spouse is really saying to you. Look them in the eyes when they talk to you. Do not interrupt them when they are speaking and stop what you may be working on to look at them when they talk. This shows them that you really care about what they are saying.
26.Learn to back off, shut up and walk away when you want to speak out (or scream and yell).
27.Take care of yourself (exercise, sleep, laugh & focus on all the other parts of your life that are not in turmoil). This is for your health's sake.
28. Be strong and confident and learn to speak softly. Read self help books, inspirational books or listen to tapes. They are for you only.
29. Know that if you can do 180's, your smallest CONSISTENT actions will be noticed much more than any words you can say or write.
30. Do not be openly show that you are "desperate" or "needy" even when you are hurting more than ever and truly feel desperate and needy. This is a large turn-off for your spouse.
31.Do not focus on yourself when communicating with your spouse, instead, focus on them.
32.Do not believe any of what you hear and less than 50% of what you see. Your spouse will speak in absolute negatives because he/she is hurting and scared.
33.Do not give up no matter how dark it is or how bad you feel.
34.Do not ask your spouse if he/she has noticed your changes. Those changes are for you and for the rest of your life...with or without your spouse. If it is just to get your spouse back...they won't last and the same problems will return.
35.Do not send several TM's or emails throughout the day unless absolutely necessary.
36. It is best to stay away from the bar scenes where other problems easily arise.
37. Do not backslide from your hard earned changes.
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
25 ;.. No way!! I respect the time and effort you put into analyzing my post. Thank-you.
Got to read it more closely though. No contradiction, just comes across bad in email form. That's why I said "by most accounts", if one were only looking at the surface of the sitch at the time. I have spent the time to look at myself and strive for improvement. Most changes have to do with my attitude. I continue to work at this each and every day.
As for the OM, really don't focus on him. He's a pretty sad loser, stoner guy, but still rather a funny person. 45-years old and still lives with his aunt & uncle. This is why he is but a symptom and not a cause of our sitch. I don't concern myself with him whatsoever.
Sadly, as for the kids, it was them who found out about the affair before me and it had a pretty profound negative impact on them. They overheard W on the phone and read her texts with OM. It all blew up on one day in my W's face and the kids have stuck near me ever since. It's not been a topic of discussion. They are 13 & 17-year old, smart girls. Taught right from wrong by their parents, and they are old enough to think for themselves. They need their mom and I am supportive. However, it is her peace to make with them. That's not my responsibility.
Big D is on hold for now. In fact, it has been dismissed while we clean up some investments that a D filing would mess up. Could take 8 to 12 months to finish. Then, her plan is to refile the D papers. Her choice, and hers alone.
MLC or not? Really? You be the judge. Starts working out incessently last fall, loses 30 lbs. New wardrobe. Very young fashions for her age. Even makes her D's laugh at her outfits. Starts going out to with "new" friends during week until late in the night. Drinking a lot. Finds a new "gay" friend, but turns out he's the OM. Starts smoking pot. Says I'm controlling and maniuputing and wants her independence, never to marry again, and wants to live the single life. Leaves me and the daughters. Fails to answer most of the phone calls and texts for 2 months. Heard enough? Textbook MLC. Yet things continue to evolve and get better between us. The difference? My attitude. I don't fight it. I accept it and all that has happened.
She had a good marraige. We had a good marraige. Perfect? No way. This person was never belittled or abused. We had a great time over the years, but as you know, things can get stale over time, so this is where my faults start to come in. I really don't blame her in some ways for running. However, she sees how good I am with our daughters and know she respects me for it. I am their rock. The biggest change has been in my interactions with her since this all went down. I no longer judge her, but support her decisions. I understand what she's in the midst of and stay positive ALL the time. It works wonders and we are getting along fine.
Much appreciate all your insights 25. This is no fun, but I accept my part in its making and resolve to be the best I can for me and the girls. If W takes notice, all the better. Even if we don't stay M in the long run. I choose our R to be healthy from here forward, no matter the recent past and no matter the eventual outcome.
