My W is upstairs, lying in bed on a Sunday afternoon because she’s depressed and because I think she is repulsed by my presence; her words. I don’t know what to do.
Her words : "You think I am repulsed by your presence" or "I am repulsed by your presence" ?
So - what is moving into an apartment going to solve?
What is the problem that actually needs solving?
It seems like there are Three obvious categories - 1.5 of which you can control. Your behavior and the thinking that continues it, the relationship you have with your W, and your W behavior and the thinking that continues it.
Its obvious to me that both you and your W are sincerely making an effort to improve things for the better, and I can't help but appreciate how meaningful that is, in and of itself. It also seems clear to me that you are actually moving along with starting to recognize your behavior and the thoughts that continue it. Thoughts are habits and it takes time to break them. It sounds to me like you are moving in the right direction but it sounds like you are getting stuck on a couple things.
You _should_ have been gentle - maybe, but you didn't. You _could_ have been gentle, right? That was an option you had but why didn't you think about it before you went upstairs and choose to do things differently? What motivated you to engage in a way that you did? It doesn't sound like you approve of your own actions so you are recognizing that something needs to change. I think thats one of the earliest 'R's of cognitive therapy - recognize, refute, remove, reframe, replace?
The 0.5 is your role in the relationship you have with your W. That can only really be improved as you work on the bigger picture - who you are, how you act, and how you feel about yourself. It is hard to be truly intimate with someone else when we hide ourselves behind anger and control or whatever other things we do to try to keep ourselves from getting too destabilized. From what you type, I get the sense that you genuinely are trying to do better at this but are struggling to find a path that works for you. Forgive me for any faulty assumptions, but it sounds like you want your W to be happy and to have a good relationship with her, you want things to improve, and you would like your relationship to be both more stable, deeper, and even more meaningful. Can any of that happen as long as you are operating in the state-of-thought that you are in?
Rather than think about your W, think about yourself - what are you preventing yourself from experiencing by holding to this mindset that leads you to act in ways you regret? Aren't you violating your own sense of integrity every time you do that?
I get the impression that you do have options for counseling available to you - I can't encourage this strongly enough - not because you 'have a problem' but because you 'want to improve your life from where it is now.' You and the people you love the most will all benefit from you being the best HerbGarden that you can be. It sounds cliche, but I believe its absolutely true.
People may talk - that is life! Ultimately you and your W deserve to do whatever it takes for you to both have satisfying and fulfilling lives as individuals and in your relationship. If that might solve things, then its one possible solution. One of the biggest takeaways I got from DB is that there are limitless possible solutions to a problem and we often only fixate on one or two and then give up if they don't work. You guys deserve to choose solutions that will really help your situation.
Talk - I apologize, as it feels like your thread is being hijacked. I can only imagine that you are having your own experience here and there are dynamics that really aren't as apparent to HerbGarden as they are to you. I hope your feeling of depression has passed and that you can share your perspective on all of this.
aeolianchaos, I agree with everything you said above. You are a thoughtful and wise man.
When I went upstairs, I was in the wrong frame of mind. When I walked in my bedroom and saw my W lying in bed I forgot about how hard I’ve been on her, how she’s suffered, and how long my anger has been an issue. I was far to focused on my own wants, vice repairing the damage and staying supportive of my wife.
I genuinely want my W to be happy and for us to be a loving unit. Like I said in an earlier post, I’m not engaged with anyone else on any level.
Well, he returned and asked if he could unpack. I answered him with a question: "what will change?". I didn't say much after that. I don't feel like there's any point to say anything. It's all been said a million times. I'm tired of sounding like a broken record, and I'm tired of hearing his.
I poured my heart out on my thread, and that helped me sort out my head to a point. It's all out there, not swimming around my brain, giving me a headache.
I feel like these episodes are giving H wake-up calls, but they are driving me further and further away. I now feel numb. In a way, I was disappointed that he came back. Atleast when I thought he was gone, I could go in a direction.
I know that had he not returned, I might have been a basket case by this morning, but I would have recovered eventually.
So I guess I'm not sure what to do now. What is my goal? How long do I wait for him to get it? How many times am I prepared to forgive and try to move on? I think I have hit the maximum number.
But what do I do with that realization? H only tries if I give him reason to. He gives up if he thinks I'm done. He wants insurance, reassurance, that he won't be trying for nothing. I was always afraid that he would finally get it after I was truly done, and THEN he would try like a madman, but it would be too late - for me.
I have never felt like I have nothing to say to him like I do now.
I'm sitting on the shop veranda thinking and listening to the birds singing. I can see the shop cat stalking something in the long grass, tomatoes are going to start soon in the old clawfoot bathtub (makes a great pot!), and the wind chimes are singing.
I know today will either be slow and I will get a lot done, or it will be busy. Either way is good. It always works out by the end of the week.
I have made a decision. I am now a ghost to H, but I will be real for me. I have been neglecting my personal artistic endeavors at my own expense. I have been pouring all my energy into fixing us. But I can only fix half of us. I don't know if I have fixed me, but I feel that I have come to some realizations about myself.
I am no longer going to write on the forum. I am now going to write for me. I have a studio in the shop where I can spend time doing what I've always wanted to do - write my book. I no longer need his support, I have my own.
Writing on the forum was so therapeutic, and I feel so much better for getting everything off of my chest. I hope H will continue, and I hope that you all will help him, challenge him, and encourage him to DIG.
If he wants to use this time to truly figure himself out, that would be wonderful, but I'm not going make suggestions, ask how it's going or have/hope for expectations. I will not read it unless he asks me to. I am stepping back and letting him sink or swim. Maybe he can bring this ghost back to life, maybe it's no longer possible. I truly hope not.
Thanks everyone, I have a shop to open, a day to enjoy, and then a chapter to start.
I encourage you to continue to post your journey here if you are comfortable with it. There are so many you can help. However it's understandable if you want to move on. Thank you for the time and heart in baring everything in a public forum to perfect strangers.
M-43 W-40 2D - 9 and 5
Emotion, yet peace. Ignorance, yet knowledge. Passion, yet serenity. Chaos, yet harmony. Death, yet a new life.
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
When you read the two posts above, you will see that my W (Talkartoon) has decided not to submit further posts. My anger, low-blow comments and inability to "get it" have really pushed her beyond the point where she feels that the forum can help her further. That being said, I want to thank everyone for posting and for providing support.
I, however, will continue to post because I still have a great deal to learn.
As you can tell, my W is a ghost to me now; I can really feel it. In the past, I’ve given up too easily when things got tough, when I was angry or when I had to be supportive and mature without a guarantee about the outcome. Now, I’ve used up all my “get out of jail free” cards and need to focus big time on rebuilding this relationship.
Talk, I do hope you will come by to give us updates from time to time.
Even if it is just for my own satisfaction to hear how things are going for you and that you are doing well.
I do hope that you have not stopped posting here because you feel unsafe because your H is reading your thread and commenting on it.
Cheers to you!
Talk - I really hope that you will reconsider and continue posting here. I think that it will be healthy and helpful for you.
I also have a selfish reason... I like your perspective on my own sitch!
If you are done here, I wish you nothing but the best... and thank you for the help that you have given me.
Denver
M 43 X 38 T 13 W moves out of home 11/2010 Roller coaster from hell 2/2011-5/2012 I request divorce 5/2012 W moves home 6/2012 Good time 7/2012 - 1/2015 I leave 3/2016 process of divorce
This process isn't supposed to be cute or cuddly. Not intending offense, although I can see how it might be taken that way.
I saw, my point of view, Herb posting and glossing over issues, the fact that he was posting here should have been good enough. "Yes, I should work on that." replies.
Well...
I'd rather walk the walk than talk the talk.
And now Herb,
I see you saying the right words.
As did Talk.
The difference now is are they hollow? Or is there substance to them?
Deeds show what is in our hearts. Actions. You know?
Experience is a brutal teacher, but you learn. My God, do you learn. - C.S. Lewis
Life is usually all about how you handle Plan B. - Jack3Beans
Listen without defending; Speak without offending - FaithinAK
