It sounds like you've been doing some fun activities with your kids which I think is great.
One positive thing for me, is that H & I do not have kids together so I don't hear stories about what he is doing and vice versa. I'm sure it's hard to have your kids tell you things.
I think you are doing well with your GAL activities.
"Everyone you meet has baggage. Find someone who loves you enough to help you unpack." ¤Formerly DelinquentGurl¤
W came round to pick kids up, opening pleasantries on how each of us looked, W asked to have a cigarette and a drink in the garden so we go outside
Convo something like this (much more, but these are the highlights/lowlights)
M – Did D14 tell you how much the Vodafone bills were W – Yes, I will have to give you some money M - OK
M – So how much weight have you lost then W – About 2st W – So how much have you lost M – About 2st 4lb M – You look good for it, but you don’t look like you have lost 2st though W – Thanks M – W you always have been beautiful to me, and have always said that W – Yes you have, not enough but you did
M – I am sorry you felt that way, If I do things again I would now say what can I do more of as I think you are beautiful W – Is that the new you again M – Yep
Small talk about work and how busy W is Mentioned that IL’s cam round yesterday, W said MIL had told her and that MIL didn’t say what we talked about
M – One thing I have learnt is not to try and fix things W – What do you mean M – I have always tried to take care of my family and fix things, and I realise I cannot do this all the time M – IL’s, me and friends shouldn’t have to try and tell you things, you need to realise this for yourself and life will also W – Thankyou, I agree
More small talk, go back to kitchen
W – Would you take me back after everything what has happened M – Only if we both realise how much work this would take and the effort needed by both of us W – I wasn’t asking if you would take me back, I was just asking M – OK, I have learnt so much over these past few weeks on what WE would need to do, and how to make a marriage work W – I don’t think we can
(W standing looking very, well, confused and unsure I felt)
Other bits, cannot remember right now
M – How are you though, as you are not eating, and are you sleeping OK W – Who have you been talking to M – No one
M – I took my wedding ring off months ago, not out of spite or vindictiveness, but I realised and accepted that our relationship as it was finished, over, dead. I do not want that R back. We were both unhappy in the last couple of years W – I agree, but I think too much damage has been done M – I didn’t want to have a conversation like this, sorry M – I would like us to have a new better relationship, start from scratch M – You have never said that you do not love me W – (no comment)
Other talk
Me - 37 W - 38 D - 14 S - 12 Together - 16 Married - 12 Bomb - April 13, 2011 W moved out - May 13, 2011
The man I became is changing back to the man I was........... and more
M – I know that we were both unhappy but you never said to me what the reason were for splitting up, other than you felt I talked down to you and I was like your dad W – Yes, I got fed up with it M – You said in your words you treated me like sh*t and were a bitch to me, why W – Cannot remember what W said here! M – Why didn’t you tell me over the last couple of years you felt like that and I could have done something about it W – I did M – I’m sorry, but you didn’t say that specifically W – I told you on a few occasions M – Sorry, but 1 thing I have learnt is that in these situations you ask for what you want, you never gave me the opportunity to do anything about it M – I felt that a was a negative circle, where you treated me like you said, sh*t, then I would be negative back and we would go round and round W – I don’t think we could get back together
Other talk
W – But I don’t think we could get back together, please don’t look at this as if we could M – OK M – You still haven’t said you don’t love me W – I care for you greatly and worry about you, I’m sorry
Back in the kitchen, W starts shouting at the kids to get ready. S12 doesn’t want to go to W’s and says so.
W – He only doesn’t want to come round as I haven’t got xbox live M – No that’s not it, he feels left out, and uncomfortable W – I know M – Why don’t you do things with the kids W – I haven’t got any money and cannot afford broadband M – Sorry, but you have purchased loads of new maxi dresses W – Only a few, I need new clothes as I can not fit into my old stuff M – I have started doing things and have a routine with them W – I know, like bowling on Tuesdays M – Well you are welcome to join us W – No answer
W – Well you have more money than me, and you have the savings M – Why are you bringing this up again, sorry this is not my choice to go down this path W – Well you had the money and I had the car, which is not fair as I need a car for work and you have a company car M – Exactly, I only have this savings as I sold my car, If I didn’t have the company car I would need to buy one W - Well its not right, those savings our ours M – Yes they were ours, but I didn’t choose this path, you had the car I had the cash
M – Can you bring the cell phone back next Sunday, as you have your own now W – Why M – I am going to give it to S12 W – Ohh OK, I give the kids my number M – What about the money for the last 2 bills (about $300) W – I will have to give you it in instalments M – OK, but I cannot pay Vodafone in instalments W – Now you are being funny M – No
W get shirty, cannot remember much from here, but I got, well I suppose defensive and finished with something like
M - I don’t want you as a friend W, W – What M – I will be your husband, but not your friend
W shouts at kids to go, said bye and left!!!!
2x4’s!!!!
If I remember anymore I will post a P3
The whole time I spoke softly, calmly and with confidence, but don’t think card and flower for our anniversary will be the right thing now for Sunday!
Me - 37 W - 38 D - 14 S - 12 Together - 16 Married - 12 Bomb - April 13, 2011 W moved out - May 13, 2011
The man I became is changing back to the man I was........... and more
DG, thanks for looking in, I am happy with my GAL stuff, esp with the kids, and they love it, they are no1
Further to my 2 long posts above, I felt ok before w came around today, about a month ago I would have been quite nervous. And now after our convo I feel fine, very strange......
Me - 37 W - 38 D - 14 S - 12 Together - 16 Married - 12 Bomb - April 13, 2011 W moved out - May 13, 2011
The man I became is changing back to the man I was........... and more
After W left I went up to my brothers, after 2 hrs get a call from W, so I left it. Picked up vm to call her regarding S12.
Now S12 wants to stay at mine (home) and not go to W’s, and had used D14 key to come home
Call was something like this (lasted about 20 min) Again I was cool and spoke softly
W – Why does S12 not want to come around and stay at mine, I’m not happy about that M – Well he told me he feels uncomfortable at yours and feels left out W – Why, because I have no xbox live M – No, as you seem to do more with D14, she has sleepovers and he has nothing W – I only have 1 TV M – I know, but he feels you push him out. Do you know he calls me or comes around to see me most days, and calls when I am out to say that he has been around W – I know M – Do you know he called me last Tue and was under his bed, he sounded like he had been crying and said he had been on the stairs for half hour as well W – I heard him on the phone to you M – Well when kids are with me, you don’t call S12 at all, just D14 (W hasn’t called him all week) W – I do try and call him but he never answers M – No, he told me he has no missed calls from u, how do you think he feels, he is 12 W – I will call him more
I then told W about the argument D14 and S12 had earlier in the week, and explained constructively some concerns I had regarding kids when at W’s. She said she was going to make more effort. I stated again that I just want the best for the kids and for them to decide, and that W is their mum and they should also spend time with her also. I also mentioned about the arguing with D14 (nothing about the swearing, shouting and other stuff I am concerned over at this stage)
General chat
M – You need to do things with the kids W – Like you do?, taking them bowling etc etc, I cannot afford that, its like you are the great dad doing things with them and I don’t. I don’t have the money. M – I am sorry you feel that way, but I have realised a lot over the past few weeks, that I had become someone I didn’t like, and will not be that person again. I am not trying to do anything but enjoy my life esp with the kids W – (something like the new you again) M - Yep M - My kids (W say our kids, which I apologise) are the most important thing to me. M – You don’t have to do things that cost money (I give some examples) M – We have a routine now, shopping and Starbucks Monday, Tue Bowling, Wed rest, Thur home cooking, Fri sleepover with snacks and board games and then things on Sat and Sunday lunch at friends pub. You are more than welcome to join us bowling on Tuesdays W – Ohh, OK
W – I don’t have any board games for the sleepovers M – W!!!!
More general chat
M – So what is happening for D14 (14th) Birthday on Tue (D14 is in a school play at the local theatre all day till 9pm) Why don’t we do something after W – That’s a good idea, I will ask D14 W – No she won’t be out till late M – What about Wed W – D14 is going to a party M – OK, what about we all go bowling next week for her birthday if that is what D14 would like W – I will ask her, yep she says that would be great M – OK, even though it’s a week late if that’s what D14 wants to do then great
W asks to speak to S12 to confirm he is OK and that he wants to stay with me for 3 days and go to W’s at the end of the week for 3 days, then they are back with me again. W tells S12 that she loves him etc etc
Passes phone back to me
W then starts to tell me about parties she has been invited to but cannot afford to go, then about how busy she is at work, where she will be working the next couple of weeks etc. More general chit chat. W says it would be good if we could do those things (i.e. bowling night) and get along and if am I OK with that.
W says thanks and will speak to me in the week!
Me - 37 W - 38 D - 14 S - 12 Together - 16 Married - 12 Bomb - April 13, 2011 W moved out - May 13, 2011
The man I became is changing back to the man I was........... and more
Just reading back over the convo's with W yesterday, and I think I didn't do toooooooo bad, and remained calm throughout.
Just also though RE yesterday that not once did I show anything other than happiness (didn’t think about “doing” it at the time actually, it’s just the way I was, so must be true LOL)
Would love to get the BITS comments and opinions
I still feel OK, even after W saying we couldn’t get back together, but IDK. Looking back I think it was a strange question to ask if I would have W back, even though she then said she was only asking! Why ask?
Anyway, new rules for me (well some of the same but enforced more)
1) I will carry on doing what I have been doing with regard to GAL activities (with and without kids), these are for me and the kids, W has noticed which is also good and said it’s like I am the great dad
2) No R talk whatsoever, if W initiatives then I will be non committal, unless asked specifics, then response will be something like, I am thinking things through and not sure ATM
3) When we get together for bowling, fun time only, no “old” me, only the new me, again which W has commented on a few times
4) No more words, just actions, so W can see consistently the new me she has commented on, and understand that things could be different. W has noticed, now W need to realise what she would be missing
5) Back to dark (well dark grey LOL)
6) Continue being upbeat and happy
7) No more “waiting around” carry on with my life, and if W wants back in, she knows may stance and where I am, then it will be my choice and my choice alone. If not then she is a fool
Me - 37 W - 38 D - 14 S - 12 Together - 16 Married - 12 Bomb - April 13, 2011 W moved out - May 13, 2011
The man I became is changing back to the man I was........... and more
I always said that I would only try and get back with W if we could both change, both acknowledge our contributions and work on them, but now I am not so sure if I want to. Is this a natural progression?
I was having a coffee with other MF's last night (W is going to see Take That with W of MF's next week, but they were originally my friends), anyhow, W and D14 came in, didn't see us but MFW pointed her out and said how miserable W looked. About 5 minutes later W saw us and I waved.
W and D14 came over, had a brief chat with MF's (said she had to go about 5 times during the convo), when there W said to me she had called S12 but he didn't want to speak, I replied that I would have thought he was with his friends, and you know what boys are like.
When I looked at W, to be brutally honest, I didn't like what I saw. W looked miserable, down, moody, uncomfortable, thin (all her lovely curves have gone) and tbh, a right mess! I, again was looking good, spoke softly and seemed great.
When W left, MF said fair play for saying that about S12, I could have just gone off on one as to what the hell she expects after treating them like she had, and that was really decent of me. Then MFW said that W seemed so bitter and looked very uncomfortable, and most specifically said it was like W had been dumped by me by the way she is acting (she knows the story, from W and I). MFW then said W had told her she was surviving on coffee, cigarettes and wine!!!!
My honest opinion is that W had an idea and vision of a new perfect, problem free single life in her own place with an OM, but OM disappeared after a week (just drinks apparently) and she is not happy. She sees me getting on with my life and from friends, that I am happy (w has commented on the new me a few times now, and had a dig that I am a great dad who does things with the kids) and doesn't like it. Like, why is he so happy, I have left him and I am miserable? W's question if I would have her back I think was just fishing, and when I answered the way I did most likely confused her. I feel that maybe she knows she has made a huge mistake but doesn't know what to do about it, as I have always chased and fixed, and I haven't this time.
My assumption could be completely wrong, but she is acting like a typical LBS after the bomb!!!
I won't say I don't care, as I do, but I am not "involved" with it. I have detached quite well now.
The bad feeling I have atm are guilty feeling for not finding her attractive atm or not wanting her back, not the longing for her I had before.
Tell me I'm not MAD
Ohh, and I have decided not to send W a card or flowers for our anniversary on Sunday.
Me - 37 W - 38 D - 14 S - 12 Together - 16 Married - 12 Bomb - April 13, 2011 W moved out - May 13, 2011
The man I became is changing back to the man I was........... and more
I always said that I would only try and get back with W if we could both change, both acknowledge our contributions and work on them, but now I am not so sure if I want to. Is this a natural progression?
I won't say I don't care, as I do, but I am not "involved" with it. I have detached quite well now.
The bad feeling I have atm are guilty feeling for not finding her attractive atm or not wanting her back, not the longing for her I had before.
Tell me I'm not MAD
quote]
I suspect it is. I know I'm sharing in that feeling in many ways - my W moved out about 6 days after yours, so maybe its a natural progression of emotions and thoughts - you process and own your authentic feelings, figure out where you'd rather be headed, and get there. I think the WAS often is not processing things, finding the 'spin' that makes them right, or just opting to avoid or deny the things that wouldn't justify their decisions. I don't know if its a conscious decision - probably a lot of pain and fear in there, and it's probably just something they can't do and aren't too motivated to do (or, aren't aware of the good reasons to do so).
M: 32 W: 29 T: 9 Years M: 4 Years I hit rock bottom: 2/11 PA admitted: 4/11 WAW: 5/11 D filed: 6/11 now: Patience, wisdom, and growth - hopefully.
I always said that I would only try and get back with W if we could both change, both acknowledge our contributions and work on them, but now I am not so sure if I want to. Is this a natural progression?
I won't say I don't care, as I do, but I am not "involved" with it. I have detached quite well now.
The bad feeling I have atm are guilty feeling for not finding her attractive atm or not wanting her back, not the longing for her I had before.
Tell me I'm not MAD
[quote]
I suspect it is. I know I'm sharing in that feeling in many ways - my W moved out about 6 days after yours, so maybe its a natural progression of emotions and thoughts - you process and own your authentic feelings, figure out where you'd rather be headed, and get there. I think the WAS often is not processing things, finding the 'spin' that makes them right, or just opting to avoid or deny the things that wouldn't justify their decisions. I don't know if its a conscious decision - probably a lot of pain and fear in there, and it's probably just something they can't do and aren't too motivated to do (or, aren't aware of the good reasons to do so).
M: 32 W: 29 T: 9 Years M: 4 Years I hit rock bottom: 2/11 PA admitted: 4/11 WAW: 5/11 D filed: 6/11 now: Patience, wisdom, and growth - hopefully.
Nothing much about the convo you had with your W. An overall sense that you did well. Could you have done better? Sure. Could you have done worse? Absolutely! So use that as a benchmark for future convo and do better on those.
Vague comment from me? Yes. Point is it was your experience and for you to decide what could have been better. Make sense?
Regarding how you used to feel that you would get back with your W if you both acknowledged your contribution for where you are at and both worked towards making things better, there are a couple things to remember.
The LBS may never have the WAS admit and acknowledge their contribution to the sitch. Not good or bad, right or wrong. Just the way it could be.
While it would be nice, even considered to be a perfect condition, the LBS wanting or expecting admission from the WAS is a black / white condition. A possible deal breaker. And it is self serving.
We discuss how validating our S feelings (not their actions) is positive and appropriate. In being here and the reason and purpose for DBing is for us, that we are doing the work, does not mean that our S is doing the work or will ever do the work.
Your feelings of not being sure you want your W back could be because your W is not validating your feelings. You do not see her doing the work and you've placed a condition of her doing the work as a reason to consider getting back with her.
Or... it could be a condition of further detachment.
Only you know the answer to that.
I neither want my W back, nor do I want a D. If my W came to me today, a month from now, or a year from now, after we are D, I would consider if she is someone I would want to be with. Not because of the past. Not because of what had or had not been done, said, etc.
I would get back with my W for the same reason I married her in the first place. It would be because I love her and want to make a future with her. What I would know for certain, the only thing I would know for certain, is that I had owned my past short comings, not just in my prior M, but in prior life choices and Rs and that I have learned, grown and become a better man because of it.
Easy to say, proof will be how I act or rather how I AM in the future with any R.
You are not MAD, IMO! It is natural to feel bad about not being attracted to your W atm. Again a situation of neither good or bad, right or wrong. Just how you feel.
Do you feel bad because you are not attracted to that gorgeous model walking down the street? Do you feel bad because you are not attracted to that amazing humanitarian who goes out and helps all the needy children in the world?
Love is a choice. Right now, your choice is not to be attracted to your W. Figure out why you feel "bad" about it and "fix" it...
It is natural to feel bad about not being attracted to your W atm. Again a situation of neither good or bad, right or wrong. Just how you feel.