74 Days - Who Knows?

[Jack_Three_Beans]

the reality is that I will probably never know.

Oh, I doubt that. You'll be in hyper-perception mode, when you're at her place. Just remember to make good calls.

You'll know if she is telling the truth or lying.

Right now your monkey brain is on top of your head pulling the strings and making you dance.

Admission:
For about 2 years after we got back together, if I saw something 'new' (something I didn't remember seeing before) I'd ask her where she got it from. Still do upon occasion.

[Denver_2010]

Instead of telling her something that isn't true. Thank her for understanding.

You don't trust her right now...despite your desire too, and saying so doesn't make it true.

You are right. And I should have thanked her for understanding rather than pretending that I do trust her completely.

I said to her, "I'm trying to trust you..." Then I corrected myself, "I do trust you"... then said, "I hope that you are being honest with me"
(this was all said last Sunday when we were talking about the Disney World trip and when she offered to forward me the email confirming her show for that night).

The reality is that I don't completely trust her right now. Could I again? Yes. I will trust her 100% once she has recommitted to our M and to me. The problem is that she is NOT committed right now... She is still trying to figure things out for herself.

Since I am a proponent of verifying trust. I am not going to say don't verify.

How do I verify Jack? I have to admit that I looked for iphone applications last night that would allow me to track her phone! THAT is crazy. I wasn't able to find any that didn't have to be downloaded to her phone ... btw.

If I drive by her house, I can't see if her car is there bc she has a garage. I'm REALLY not worried about finding OM there bc of the toilet event. I don't think that she will have him there even if she is lying to me.

My problem is wondering if she is going to her home after these other plans that she has told me about... and whether or not she is talking to him on the phone... wondering if OM really hasn't been on any of her gigs lately...

How do I verify any of this?

I am going to warn you from experience of going overboard. Because, when that happens, you will keep looking until you find something that confirms your suspicisons. No matter how flimsy it is.

Example?

Drive by her house, and no OM truck...then widening your search to the next 5 blocks, seeing a truck that could be his in front of someones house...That biotch!

Fine line where you're the crazy one.

Very fine line... and I think that I've crossed it a few times in the past couple of days.

I have no evidence that she has lied to me or that she is seeing OM... but, at the same time, I haven't had that much contact with her this week.

Yes... driving me crazy.

[Denver_2010]

Oh, I doubt that. You'll be in hyper-perception mode, when you're at her place. Just remember to make good calls.

You'll know if she is telling the truth or lying.

Right now your monkey brain is on top of your head pulling the strings and making you dance.

Not during this time of us 'taking space'. If I'm not talking to her, how do I know what the f she is doing?? I am a criminal defense attorney and have investigators at my disposal... thinking of using one.

Admission:
For about 2 years after we got back together, if I saw something 'new' (something I didn't remember seeing before) I'd ask her where she got it from. Still do upon occasion.

Makes me feel better that I'm not the only one to go through this. thanks for sharing Jack.

Denver

[Jack_Three_Beans]

You're asking how to trust a person who has proven her ability to lie to you?

You're asking how not to go nuts.

How to verify.

I can tell you what do to, but that's not my style and I don't like doing that. Do this. pfffpt.

I didn't trust my wife the last time. All the other times, when I did? I was burned and felt foolish. (Don't read too much into this, I believe to my core that these times had to happen for multiple reasons.)

The last time, she had to prove trust.
She let me know where she was going, she would call to let me know where she was, if she was running late.
She provided me with the information that I could check up on her with.
Did I?
I want to say no. But it has been to long, if I did, it would have been once or twice, a low enough number to make me forget that I did.

If I saw one of OM's brand of cigarette butts outside her house.
Rather than jump to the conclusion she lied to me, I'd ask her about it. My heart and mind might be racing, but that monkey was stuffed into his cage.

My goal wasn't to have my paranoia proved right.
My goal wasn't not to be made a fool of no matter the cost.
My goal was to give this my best shot at being married, but like above not at any cost.

I verified my doubts by talking with her, and becoming keenly aware of her surroundings. Did I check up on her? Yes. Did I look at her phone? Yes I did. Did I tell her I would be doing these things? Yes.

Her doing these things? Was on their own, a sort of verification.

Transparency, works both ways, it has too.
She had to be onboard with that. Otherwise; What was she hiding?


For me going nuts, I DIDN'T like who I was when I was crazy.
I was at the point of:
With her, ok.
Without her, ok.

That helped alot.

But I despised the way I acted and how I felt.
Does it sound easy? It was hard. But I would focus on something else, anything else. If I couldn't let an issue go, I would talk to her about it. I told her I would, I told her I would do my best to kill these demons, but when I couldn't we would need to talk. And that these talks would fade over time with her rebuilding trust.

I saw this as a choice, a choice I got to make, be in control or be out of control.

You're an A type of personality, right?
Not being in control is its own sort of hell for you.

[Denver_2010]

You're an A type of personality, right?
Not being in control is its own sort of hell for you.

Absolutely... to both.

I see what you are saying Jack. The problem is that right now, she is NOT committed to the M. We are 'taking space' for the month of June. So I cannot expect her to be okay with me asking her where she has been or what she has been doing.

For example... if I call her right now and say 'W, I'm feeling insecure right now and I need to talk to you about it..." Well, I am not giving her the space that she says that she needs. In fact, she will probably begin to feel smothered if I do it much.

So I'm stuck just hoping that she is telling me the truth... hoping that I'm not being made a fool... hoping that I am not being taken advantage of...

It would be much easier if I was ok with her... and also ok without her ... as you were. But I'm not there I guess.

I thought that I was for a week or two after the toilet event, but now I'm not. I can't explain this ... I just know how I feel.

Thanks again Jack.

Denver

[Mach1]

I said to her, "I'm trying to trust you..." Then I corrected myself, "I do trust you"... then said, "I hope that you are being honest with me"
(this was all said last Sunday when we were talking about the Disney World trip and when she offered to forward me the email confirming her show for that night).




The reality is that I don't completely trust her right now. Could I again? Yes. I will trust her 100% once she has recommitted to our M and to me. The problem is that she is NOT committed right now... She is still trying to figure things out for herself.

I'm not trying to bust on you D.....

But the above ( in bold ) really bothers me...

You are asking for complete trust and tranparency , yet you are not being honest with her with you....


When do you become the change you want to see here ?

[Denver_2010]

YOu are right Mach. I will be honest with her about it the next time that we have R talk. Not in a mean way ... just an honest way.

Like I said in my response to Jack above though ^^^ ... I'm really not in a place where it is a great idea to be talking to her about this at all. Maybe in July I guess.

Thanks Mach.

[Starsky309]

It's not that big a deal, and you shouldn't feel funny about it. Transparency is a necessary part of the plan in these situations, where there's been prior infidelity, and prior deceit.

Goes with the territory.


Starsky

[Jack_Three_Beans]

Aww crud, Devner I saw the whole, you guys talking thing and totally missed the 'space'.

Give her space. She doesn't exist for the next week and a half or so.

[cat04]

Good Lord Denver,

I go away for a bit, get one of my rare glimpses of what my future is going to look like in a few short months, take some time to feed the horses this afternoon, and you are on here looking for a smack in the head...


The guys are giving you great advice.

And you are not listening.

I will say it again, stop trying to use words to explain this away...

Rational thought is NOT going to work in this situation...

Is your W posting things to mislead you?

Who knows?

Is she posting to see if you are going to check up on her, to see if you say something, just to see if you trust her or not?

Probably. I know if I was unsure and still wanting space, I would...

Because if you asked about it, I would then know that you haven't changed at all...

RELAX. STOP. BREATH.

With the amount of pressure you are putting on yourself to micromanage something that you can't, if she does want to work it out, you are going to have no energy left.

You won't trust her. Don't think you will. Trust takes time and effort.

You have to WANT to be able to trust her though. Or it will NEVER happen...

Denver, stop trying to prove that you are different and that you have changed and just act like it, or don't. The thoughts in your head, that get put here on the page, tell me that you are still struggling within yourself to keep the old Denver down. And you need to make sure that he is a very distant memory for the both of you...

These thoughts you are having, making yourself nuts, are happening because you are not in CONTROL of the situation right now and you are feeling it hard. Not because she hasn't committed to anything. In fact, I see you wanting that committment, as a form of control. If and when you are talking to her, you still have to recognize that she is a person, and you can't control her. Period.

Because the Denver who has control...

Is the old Denver.

The verifying that Jack is talking about, the transparency, goes both ways...eventually, it becomes just a comfortable way of life where there are no secrets...

That will only happen if both people are on board (which is the first indicator that there is NOTHING to hide).

I see what you are saying Jack. The problem is that right now, she is NOT committed to the M.

And this...

was a very fancy way of saying "yes but"...

Which is just a way to create an excuse...

I think it is time to really try to stop that as well...