Background: I am HD, my wife LD. My W and I have been married 6+ years. 3 1/2 year old D, 1 1/2 year old S.
In the beginning we would have sex about twice a week. We were very happy for the first 2 1/2 years. After getting pregnant with our first child W's desire dropped. We would have sex about once a month. I attributed it to the pregnancy. After the birth of D in 7/2000, W stopped her teaching career to stay home with D. She has been a wonderful mother. I couldn't ask for anything better.
After the birth of D our frequency remained about the same (1/month). It was at a tolerable level being new parents and having lower energy levels, but I would have liked more often.
In Nov. 2001 we began trying to have a second child. We convceived right away and then her desire dropped off the charts. S was born in 7/2002 - 5 weeks early. He was a high maintenance baby. He had acid reflux, breathing problems, and was on several medications at once. It was draining on us both but I still had a HD for my W. From the time we conceived S until he was 8 months old we had sex twice. Since then I'm lucky if it's once every couple of months.
This has gotten me very down. I was a virgin when we were married. So making love was a very big deal to me. It is an expression of love. My W has little if no interest. I can't understand why she doesn't want to make love to me. We were intimate often before the kids and I know it is tiring, but to be so disinterested is baffling to me.
I do my very best to help around the house to try to help her from getting so drained, but it seems to have no effect. I have been unhappy for the last 3 years and can only see it getting worse. We're becoming distant and neither of us want to live without the other, but I can't see me going on like this indefinitely. Sooner or later it will be too much for me to handle.
What is finally brining this to a head was a Christmas party we went to. She was having a lot of fun, acting flirtacous, then when we got home she just went to sleep. That felt like a stake through my heart. I now feel our marriage is headed for disaster.
A few days ago I found this web site and have ordered SSM (hasn't arrived yet). I'm hoping this can be the start of a change. But it's tough to believe while I'm so down.
I don't usually post in this forum--I leave the advice for the pro's here. I'll still follow my own instincts with that one, but I want to talk to you about your S1.
I'm a HD chick, so I'm in a different boat than your W. But there is something I'd like to share with you because hindsight is always 20-20.
The day my D6 was born was the day our lives changed irrevocably. She was born 3 weeks early--just shy of being termed preemie, but she was.
She weighed 6 lbs even and became very jaundiced from the get-go. The day after we brought her home, we got a visiting nurse and the suntan in a suitcase--along with diarrhea from hell and acid reflux like you wouldn't believe. She was readmitted to the hospital a week after she was born because he bottom was bloody from the acid level in her diarrhea.
That week began our descent into hell. I'd love to spend time rehashing that with you, but I'll give you a thumbnail sketch instead. At 3M, she went into the hospital again for bronchitis. We came home with a nebulizer. She got RSV over July 4th and came home with O2 a week later--and was on oxygen for the rest of the summer.
She still had the reflux all along and started to refuse to eat. In October 1997, we got a referral to a pediatric GI and discovered this baby had ulcers, esophagitis, a slow gastric empty and some other forgotten name for not closing the flap over the trachea so that she was refluxing from the top and bottom into her lungs. All on top of the GERD and now a referral to a pulmonologist. And she has been on meds since the day she was born.
In Dec she had her nissin--surgical procedure to prevent reflux--sort of like crimping a garden hose. And then she didn't eat because she had learned to associate food with pain. At one year, she failed every developmental milestone and we were sent to another pediatric specialist to evaluate her issues--because she weighed in at a whopping 14 lbs at 1 year.
Except for my H walking out on me a year ago, my daughter's early days were the hardest days of my life. Bar none.
It's a long story to a genetic diagnosis, but I want to tell you what happened behind the scenes.
My sex drive disappeared completely. My life was spinning out of control and I was concerned for both of my children, but paranoid that my youngest was going to die. And I had the specialists accusing me of doing something wrong because she was a failure to thrive kid. The world was caving in on me, and I was a mess.
I don't know where you are with your son right now because you didn't say. But the trauma of dealing with what she dealt with coming off the natal hormones is INCREDIBLE.
This woman needs some support--from you and professionally. I didn't seek it until last year (D was 5). It took me a year to process those emotions and figure out what I was feeling--as a person, as a mother and as a wife. They are all connected and she needs some help.
I've had the blessing of meeting many, many other parents like us. And all of them have shared this same scenario, so I know what I'm talking about here. It's not abnormal.
I'll hand this baton over to others who can help you with your issues.
Big hugs.
Underdog
"There are only 2 ways to live your life. One is as though nothing is a miracle. The other is as though everything is a miracle."
I think Underdog has a point, TG. I'm in a similar situation, sex-wise, with my ND wife. We've had sex twice this year. But in October 2002 we adopted a daughter from China and I love her so much. If someone asked me if I'd take a bullet for her, I'd say yes. In fact, the bullet I'm already taking is that I won't divorce my wife, even though, at 42, I feel my sexual spirit dying daily. I love my wife, but I love her as the mother of our daughter, as a friend, and as a partner in this legal arrangement called a marriage. There is no lust or romance between us. Maybe I'll have an affair...I'm not looking for one, but I'm certainly vulnerable to having one. The best thing I've done so far is get on anti-depressants. Although my situation hasn't changed, I'm much more relaxed about it. And I find I don't get into these endless inner-dialogues about how my life sucks that I used to get into all the time. Good luck, TG. The book may help.
Quote: I don't know where you are with your son right now because you didn't say. But the trauma of dealing with what she dealt with coming off the natal hormones is INCREDIBLE.
Underdog,
S is doing much better. He got of the Reglan and Zantac in April and hasn't shown any sign of the reflux. We haven't had to use the Nebulizer for a year now for breathing treatments. About the time we stopped having reflux, he started getting ear infections. He would go on antibiotics, complete the course and 3-4 days later get another. Finally got tubes in July and hasn't gotten one since.
So situation with the children is about as good as it gets. No health problems, just dealing with normal 3 1/2 & 1 1/2 year old kid issues.
I do everything I can around the house to help. I give the baths before bed, get up during the night for potty runs (just started night time training a month ago), help plan dinners. We both share with making/cleaning up dinners, cleaning the house, etc. It just doesn't seems to help.
I'm not saying W is not appreciative of what I do, just by the end of the day, she is wiped. My career is mental effort. But, even on days when I mow the lawn, do yard work, etc. and am tired at the end of the day, I still want to make love. It's something we can share and leave the rest of the world behind for a while.
Glad to hear that your kiddo is off those meds. D6 went on Reglan when they took Propulsid off the market, and hated that yucky syrup horribly. Her needs have always exceeded what Zantac offered. She's still on Prilosec because of her naturally acidic stomach and her seizure meds, which also cause an acidic stomach.
Now that you got it out of the way, I'm still going to let Corri and Johanna and the rest of the sex gang help you. They're great.
I will comment here, though.
Quote: It just doesn't seems to help.
I disagree--it is definitely not hurting your sitch, TG.
My H has also been very supportive and helpful. My nickname for him on this BB is Mr. Wonderful. It's partly tongue-in-cheek for that bobble head dude you see in stores, but partly because it is true.
Like I said, I have more of a drive than most women and mine came back when D6 was around 3--in full force. By then, Mr. W. and I had created a life of resentment and he only indulged me when he needed it but never before it reached mission critical. I took it when I could get it, however I could get it.
I'm still going to stand by and ask you to support her in different ways. Lots of validating and cherishing. If an opportunity arises, please, please encourage her to seek counseling. The trauma left behind from your son's first year is nothing to sneeze at, and there are all sorts of repercussions for not dealing with trauma.
In my spare time, I run a nonprofit that benefits kids with issues stemming from those like your son and my D--and I have NEVER met a mom who has not felt the blow to her womanhood like the one your W took. Our motherhood chakra is tied to our perception of our femininity and she had hers questioned.
There are all sorts of insinuations and innuendoes that knock us off balance. Just like men who have ED feel to their masculinity. Different degrees, but the issue is there, friend. I can guarantee it.
How about buying her a day at a spa or something totally indulgent? Give her coupons for non-sexual massage or foot rubs? Buy a foot bath and some champagne and get her all set up somewhere away from the kids?
I know what helps me feel cherished.
And you might want to also put on your list of must reads The Five Love Languages. Excellent read and maybe would help you learn HER love language.
Good luck. Corri and Johanna, I think you can help where I can't.
You've come to a great place, TG. Best of luck.
Underdog
"There are only 2 ways to live your life. One is as though nothing is a miracle. The other is as though everything is a miracle."
Quote: I disagree--it is definitely not hurting your sitch, TG.
I agree. I guess that was an emotional response from me. I'm sure if I didn't help out things would be much worse in our marriage.
Quote: I'm still going to stand by and ask you to support her in different ways. Lots of validating and cherishing. If an opportunity arises, please, please encourage her to seek counseling.
We've agreed to start couseling after the first of the year. It would be sooner, but we both agree that it probably wouldn't be feasible with busy holiday schedules, family in town, etc. until a couple of weeks from now. We've already gotten the name of a counselor from a couple from our Sunday School class that had similar issues a couple of years ago.
Quote: How about buying her a day at a spa or something totally indulgent? Give her coupons for non-sexual massage or foot rubs? Buy a foot bath and some champagne and get her all set up somewhere away from the kids?
Unfortunately, money is tight going to a spa would be out. Other gestures I have tried seem to get met with the "You're just doing this because you want me in bed" response. I know I'm to blame for this since that I have done this in the past, and now she's gunshy.I'm not sure how to get beyond this, without offering more gestures (innocent) and dealing with her rejecting them, until she sees that it's not just to get her in bed. (or somewhere else for that matter).
Quote: And you might want to also put on your list of must reads The Five Love Languages. Excellent read and maybe would help you learn HER love language.
Sounds like you are a great guy--good H and father. She's lucky to have you.
Good for you on the C... if some stuff about your son's issues come up and you need some help navigating through that maze, come down to my thread in Piecing and ask away.
I have a lot of knowledge on that subject--both personal and what I've learned from other parents who share. My feet are firmly on the ground with my D6 and the special needs world, and I've worked very hard to allow my emotional self heal and catch up.
So it's really, really wonderful that you've come here for some help and answers and somehow I know you'll come out a better person. Have you read DB and DR as well? Lots to read until you guys make it into the MC.
Best wishes and big hugs.
Underdog
"There are only 2 ways to live your life. One is as though nothing is a miracle. The other is as though everything is a miracle."
Something to add to this from as a mom, I have a hard time switching from "mommy mode" to "sexy self mode" and it's definitly a transition, often one I have to do consiously, which took me a while to figure out, and sometimes I fight myself on it. I want to be sexy, feel sexy, want to want to make love, want my H to know how much I love him and want him, want him to feel it, and here's the kicker of insanity, and I just don't WANT to. grrr
sounds like your wife in her mind was NOT rejecting you, she may well have just fizzled due to exahustion, happy but physiologically unable to do more. (especially with the baby stuff going on) I must confess to being tired just reading about that party and her subsequent action of sleep, natural and consistant with the situation. As a wife who sometimes does this hot to fizzle instead of sizzle response, my teasing and playfullness is an expression of love and desire, and sharing that moment of awareness sizzle even if it might not last, because at that moment I DO feel it, and my H has the right to that info., and its plain FUN. Often my hopes are up too, I'm not building him up just to leave him high and dry, I want that love connection to and my darn body just isn't cooperating and getting with the program. There also can be the feeling of its ok we'll finnish up later. (sadly later often doesn't happen) It's not that it isn't important, it just isn't urgent and there's always plenty of time to get around to it tomorrow. (yes I know this isn't true, but the feeling is there and insidious) She probably really doesn't understand that you feel so rejected, when the message she's conveying is that of love appreciation and attraction.
GET the 5 Love languages, ENORMOUSLY helpful She may see some of the stuff you are doing as "decent wonderful human being" not I feel sexy- loved- wanted. Also talk to her, tell her what you are doing and why. I was stunned to find out that when my H takes the kids and lets me sleep that he on purpose trying to make my life easier and better. Not the message I got, which was one of abandonment, indifference, that I wasn't worth his time and attention.
DATE HER!! every week! Seperate from moan complain worry and disscuss the kids finances relationship etc.. time. Make a plan together, spend that time appreciating the good stuff, compliment each other, find fun with each, explore interests. Take the time to learn about each other now, new insights. Both of you figure out what types of specific actions promote feelings of connectedness.
You have to let her know that this leaves you seriously vunlerable to an affair or at sometime deciding you don't want to be married, that it isn't worth it. STRESS to her that you WANT HER not someone else, not a life without her, but this is the path you are headed down and don't want to be on. Let her know that you hate being vunlnerable, that you want to be able to know you will turn down inappropriate invitations, because your needs are met. Not do something utterly stupid in a moment of weakness, where oppertunity meets need- meets indifference or rebellion. surefire recipe for disaster and irrevokable harm. It's much much easier to stop before anything starts. Its also much easier to heal/fix little hurts and problems before they become big ones. Not to minimize, it is a big deal. Its just that our sneaky back brains will find ways to meet our needs in ways that hurt us ultimately, if we aren't careful and diligent and aware.
Join the club man! There are A LOT of guys and gals on this board trying to figuer out how to fix the HD/ND issue. I am there with you, I thought SSM was written about MY marriage.
Just like your situation, as my wife had children, she stopped being "Lovers" and became "Mommy". The desire also faded a little more after each birth. IT NEVER CAME BACK. Unfortunately, childbirth is one of the MAJOR reasons for losing desire, and I thought it was due to the hectic times of early childhood, NOT!! 8 years after the birth of our last child, my wife is more fridgid then EVER. As the books all say, womens hormones cause her to lose interest in sex (TEMPORARILY) after birthing chidren. Unfortunately, many womens temporary decline becomes PERMANENT. I have read where 90% of all women will have lose of sexual desire in their lifetime, and for 40-45% of all women, this lose will be PERMANENT. NOT GOOD FOR US GUYS. 1/3 of all men will lose their sex drives in their lifetime as well, so it is not confined to one sex.
SO where to go from here:
#1) Read All you can about the subject. #2) Work to become the WBH (World's Best Husband). #3) Pray #4) BE VERY PATIENT. #5) PRAY SOME MORE. It is very easy to start hating your wife for losing her desire, to hate God for ruining your marriage, to hate yourself for failing her, to hate your kids for CAUSING some of the decline, etc.. This is an UNBELIEVEABLE test for a HD male to go through. I know I find myself looking at women all the time now as REPLACEMENTS for my wife, and I HATE THIS. Your wife promises you to be the SOLE source of your Sexual Fullfillment, and then they close up shop. So here us HD guys are left with NO POSSIBLE WAY TO HAVE OUR NEEDS MET. And the purpose of marriage is to MEET YOUR SPOUSES NEEDS in a manner that can please both spouses. As a man, I know how difficult it is for me to meet my wifes needs for conversation and family commmitment cause relationships issues are NOT my strong point. And yet I think that the hardest need of all to meet, is the need for sexual fullfillment when you are a ND women, as there is not much within you to drive you down that path. THe trick here is to somehow explain the importance of physical touch to your wife, and get her to understand it, and then to do something about it. Until SHE gets that far, not much is going to happen. Good luck, most of us never get them this far. Until SHE understands the TRUE importance of physical touch to you, there really ARE NO SOLUTIONS to your problem.
