Here's a woman's view, again. I posted to you before but do not recall you responding so, one more time...
Originally Posted By: Arkansasguy
Thanks for the replies. All I can say is this really [censored]. Nothing has changed. well, What did YOU do to help things change?
I noticed zero response to the issues I raised to you, as a woman.
If you are going to check into "sex statistics" to keep score (super helpful...NOT), check this one.
1) Women report their lowest sex drive occurs in the first 2-3 years after the birth of their 2nd (or last) child.
2) Women report their h's contribution to child care and housework 60% LOWER than their h's describe...
You said the SL used to be really good before the kids--that's good news. She knows what it's like for it to be good.
Imo, it's a 3 fold issue: Why her sex drive is lower now...
1) it's A Natural hormonal cycle--she can see a doctor for this. But she may have to change forms of birth control and that has its' own issues. YOU can change with condoms but Idk how you two feel about those. IF the BC she's using now is dropping her libido plus the natural cycle of it, well, there are lots of options out there that don't affect her hormones as much or at all. If you don't want anymore kids, one of you could get a vasectomy...
2) The weight thing--good for you not whining about that. But SHE knows and SEES it and does not feel attractive. Dim the lights, compliment her sexiness as much as possible & be sincere about it.
3) the way you are YOU handling this & How YOU are treating her.
These are the reasons, I'm betting. You can support her in the first two, and you can COMPLETELY CHANGE #3...
Again I ask, what did YOU do to change things?
If you act half as angry at home as you sound here (I know you might not but...) then I doubt you'll get any. No one's attracted to an angry partner. Talk about feeling used...
I feel so used. I feel like a roomate or a friend. I sure wonder what SHE would say about^^^.Are you a "friend" to her? Doesn't sound that way. I wonder if she'd say maybe the same thing about her feelings?? Oh and btw, the victimhood approach you're taking, and your anger, is not attractive and it's NOT Effective. You know, as in "not working"... DBing is about the simple but radical idea, that we should do WHAT WORKS FOR our marriages, and Do NOT Do, what does not work for them.
We don't delve into childhood issues, undefined historic angst, past abuse or baggage about the time Timmy fell in the well. That therapy certainly has its' place, but it's not here.
Hence the need for new approaches on your end.
I feel for you; I really do.
While denying your spouse sex for non physical reasons, is wrong, it's NOT adultery, so anyone telling you that is prepping for the big justification....
What's to stop that person from claiming they are "not getting enough"
b/c in Penthouse, the "average" man gets sex every day, sometimes twice
....so now, HE gets to cheat.
OR maybe he's getting more than the average BUT IT 'S NOT ENOUGH FOR HIM SO HE GETS TO CHEAT too...
....blah blah blah justifications!...
Instead, if this is reaching the crisis stage, you tell her before hand that this is becoming a deal breaker, but YOU CHANGE your approach too.
Ask her what she needs/wants from you to make love more. What has to happen?
We are not looking for multiple conditions precedent...it's not an obstacle course. But dig deep, what is it that she needs FROM YOU to have sex more often?
If my h asked me that, saying he felt hurt and rejected without sex more often, but wanted to know WHAT HE COULD TO DO TO HELP THINGS MOVE ALONG...(assuming he didn't keep complaining/criticising)
but made me feel as if we were working together to come together... I would be very touched.
I enjoy the intimacy of ml even if I am not in the mood enough to think I'll "get my cookies too". But that depends a lot on how I'm feeling emotionally about h. These days, that's the biggest factor really. When we feel close, not just "lusty" but happy &celebratory, b/c our d22 graduated from college, or ML to comfort b/c of the death of his mother.
So sex is a lot of things that connect us. Not all about the physical release. So, how often Do you massage her back or feet, and touch her NON sexually much? You know, without expectation? Is it more than 3 minutes?
She wants the perks of the second check, Oh come on, She works 60 hours a week!! I think she's exhausted. Just b/c most women don't die from childbirth in this nation, doesn't mean it doesn't take a lot out of you and yes I mean a good year or so to heal and be yourself again. 2-3 years til you're hormonally where you were before. And she does most of the childcare, so What are you doing while "working from home"?Seriously.... I sure wonder what SHE would say SHE does, vis a vis You, on this issue..food for thought someone to help with the kids, do household stuff, expects me to be a good father and thats it. (Isn't that what you expect from her, plus sex? And what else is a husband- but a good father, partner and lover? Am I missing something?
Like I said, what would SHE think of that ^^^ comment? We are only hearing your side, of course. It's important for us to envision how she's feeling.
When we had our 2nd child & I was working full time and h was in med school, he studied at home with headphones on. Drove me crazy b/c I did all the work plus the job while he shut us out...sound familiar?
Hey, He wasn't at a bar drinking, granted. But my BIL&SIL stayed with us for 2 months during that time and both said, "j, YOU have the hardest life of anyone I know !" I swear they said that. They didn't say that to h. He went to work and worked hard, and came home and worked some more on his work. His career/studies were his priority. I did everything else. I was exhausted.
I honestly have no clue why I even sleep in the same bedroom or bed with her. I could send her a child support check and let her hire a nanny, gardner, and maid and she'd probably not know or care I am gone. This is so infuriating. I am getting mader and angrier by the day.
How's that attitude working for you?
Ask yourself, do You want to be "right" or do you want to be happy? I hear a lot of wounded ego and hurt pride and I DO GET THAT...but don't make choices based on those factors, please.
You have to work on YOU...Did you read the Div Busting books at all??
For as smart as she is she is clueless. She asks why I am grouchy, and I tell her as she stares at me with deer in the headlight look, and replies "you'll get over it". I ask her if she wants a divorce and her reply is " I am still here aren't I?" I can honestly say I can NOW understand why some people cheat. When you are tired of begging, pleading and saying I need this....and it all falls on deaf ears you must take care of yourself. HOW ABOUT YOU TRYING A DIFFERENT APPROACH?...for a man "as smart as you are"...sheesh!!! Hard to read that without rolling my eyes. Do you see your own words and not think about them? Hire a DB coach asap b/c I am not getting through to you. Just commiserating only makes it worse.
FYI, No one is attracted to a grouchy man, or a pouting man or a whiner. It's not appealing. You came here awhile back & I posted a long post to you to give you a woman's perspective. And?? Nada.
You return to say "nothings changed" and you're "angry"...well...no surprise.
You report no change in your approach...so, um, what'd you expect?
12X a year is ridiculous. I have NEVER had as little sex until I got married. I am 40, not 80. I am mad and in a foul mood, so I am sorry for rambling.
Goodnight all!
if you actually want things to improve, (and some people don't, They think they do but what they really want is to vilify their spouse and justify an affair)
They do NOT want to work on themselves...they believe the WHOLE problem is their spouses.
They fail to realize [b]how empowering it is to have issues of your own and you can work on those. YOU CAN FIX YOU......You must and can change you, and ONLY YOU...
What are your 180s? What are your GAL? Anytime for those?
So READ THE DB BOOKS AND IMPLEMENT THEM AND TELL US HOW YOUR NEW APPROACHES WORK OR NOT, AND THEN WE CAN HELP...
YES IT'S FINE TO VENT HERE BUT YOU DO HAVE TO CHANGE YOUR WAYS TO CHANGE YOUR MARRIAGE....that's just a fact. [/b]
Well..here we are 2 weeks later....
What have I done different....
1. I stopped any action that could be construed by her as sexual. (which right now to her is anything other than a goodbye kiss in the morning and a goodnight kiss...provided we go to bed at the same time which is rare.
2. I have stopped any conversation about sex.
3. I have started working on a classic muscle car I have, and some computer games aka Getting a Life (GAL). I can only take the OWN so much as thats all she watches.
Changes I took over 90+ percent of all household duties. She would cook 1 to 2 meals, and do her laundry and the kids( I mess it up per her) My laundry comes out fine.( I do it myself) With this. The worked the previous Saturday. I have both kids 3 and 22 months. Wife left at 8am and did not return till 7pm. I had the house cleaned, dishes done, kids dressed and fed. Had dinner layed out ready to throw in the frydaddy when she got home. I contrast that with the weekday she was off and daycare was closed(holiday) but I had to work. House look like a bomb went off.. or we had a home invasion. Lunch dishes in the sink. I didn't say a word...(different) I had to clean up the next day.
With
"1) Women report their lowest sex drive occurs in the first 2-3 years after the birth of their 2nd (or last) child. "
We are there. Add in the depo shot, poor self esteem (weight issues) and probably a sprinkle of depression.
"2) Women report their h's contribution to child care and housework 60% LOWER than their h's describe..."
As for child care. Wife does take the kids to school at 8:30 as I leave before 8am. Wife does not go to work till 9am. I pick up the kids and keep them from 5pm to 7pm when she gets home. I also watch them all day the 1 to 2 Saturdays she works a month. SO I actually spend more alone time with my kids than she does. Not complaining about it.
It just makes me realize that she has physical, psychologial or emotional issues right now. I should be as tired and depressed as she is, but yet am not.
"3) the way you are YOU handling this & How YOU are treating her. "
With this it does bother me. The lions share of stuff is on me. I work a 40 hour job versus her 60, but factor in the part time stuff I do nights and weekends from home and we break even. I have been biting my toungue and dealing with it.
Apparently wife and I are NOT on the same pages with love languages. I am acts of service....Which to wife is NOTHING, but "stuff I should be doing anyway". Still trying to figure hers out.
"If you don't want anymore kids, one of you could get a vasectomy..."
This is a sore point. I have a son from a previous relationship, With and I have two. SO I have 3 total. I DO NOT want anymore. She wants 1 more in a year or so. I have no clue how she plans to magically get a sex drive in 2 years. Until things get better...which to me would be once a week and she returns to her old self I do not want another kid. We rarely get any alone time now. Another child would make it worse. IMHO.My parents are out of state and out of picture, and her parents are basically raising her sisters son, so they have little time for our kids, plus her sister is pregnant... Thats another story....Wife only trust her mother or me to watch the kids.
Seriously it is like a soap opera here. I hope I answered the questions.