probably by my feeble computer skills and the lateness of the hour
so will post that treatise later...
but the misdemeanor/felony line hit me. It's often accurate. Great analogy.
EXCEPT a few m's here, had some real "marriage Felons" who were LBSers, who have spouses that want out
& to the "felon", ironically, the spouse wanting out, is the "real" felon!
I say, not so fast...
If the WAS commits what SEEMS like a felony or serious misdemeanor
but when
you learn the real history of the m,
without the wounded ego of the LBSer clouding things & viewing it w/that lens
You see things differently...and roles can reverse, or should...
(No hidden meaning meant for you 2step, or faith),
just saying I've seen it around, and
if the shoe fits...
a single "first offense," even of a "Felony" can sometimes be seen in a very different light
when the LBSer refuses to take a brave honest look at their YEARS of behavior
("repeat offenses" over years, with plenty of warnings)
that might well
have pushed their WAS out the door....well
when I hear the LBSer "vent" here, about how wrong the WAS is,
I see little hope for the m,
Based on what I see or hear from these "wronged LBSers" who overlook or gloss over their true role in what happened,
I see hope and happiness ahead for the one walking out...
any LBSer who says they were great spouses, AND have "no regrets" about how they treated their WAS...
has had one painful experience, that taught them nothing. What a waste.
You two are so fortunate in that you know you are better men for this.
Here's the deal...
If your w's never return, they'll always wonder if your changes lasted/were real
and if so, whether they would have lasted & been real for them
and if so, they will wonder about & mourn what they lost...
they'll second guess their choices,
every time something in their new
wonderful life, goes wrong
every time a holiday comes around, or a memory resurfaces, they will wonder.
When things go well for them,
they'll wonder if that could have happened anyhow,[i] with their original families...[/i]
Whereas the LBSer who grows, & owns their ROLE in the problems & learned from them,
MUST make the best of the situation, for they had no choice in the matter.
Those LBSers lives improve. Those LBSers won't wonder or look over their shoulder.
The WAS always will...
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
That has to be one of the best and most accurate things I have read on these boards in a while. I enjoy the outstanding wisdom you provide to everyone. Thank you!
Sorry for the high jack!
Me 44 W 38 M 18 D 18 D 13 Bomb 10/21/2010 Divorced 7/19/2011 Just getting to the 7th inning!
but you know, who cares WHY they do, IF they also do the work with you?
Well 25 I think I would care. Your initial reaction would be very similar to mine. The reason to me is just as important as the decision. It is the reason behind it that would influence my decision. I want somebody to want me as badly as I want them, not because I am comfortable and secure. If that is the reason behind it then I am merely a security blanket. That is not good enough for me. Make sense?
Someone who is prideful and/or stubborn will need an excuse to come back. Who cares if finances or D or the house or a job is their EXCUSE to come back. They would not come back and do the work if they did not want you and the relationship! WASs eat a lot of pride, take a huge risk of rejection, when they contemplate coming back. It's one of the hardest things they ever do, a LOT harder than leaving in the first place. So who cares what their excuse is, they are choosing to take those risks and make themselves vulnerable, they are CHOOSING YOU by their actions regardless of their words.
Originally Posted By: 2stepboogie
Originally Posted By: MichelleLT
2step - she thought she'd tried everything, therefore she told herself she had to leave. She didn't try everything, because she didn't knowwhat other options were out there. You cannot blame her for lack of knowledge. We are all ignorant at some point.
You know Michelle I get this to a certain point. I didn’t know either, but I went out and found it. I understood her leaving to a certain point, even blamed myself for helping out in the process. At one point though I stopped understanding, you know when? When OM came in the picture.
The OP is never about the OP. It's about the WAS running from themselves, looking for someone to tell them they are making the right choice, to validate them and make them feel better. The OM is a symptom of her issues, not a cause of anything. So you should have sympathy. And respect for the fact that she didn't have an A while you were M. A lot of people on these boards don't have WASs that were that considerate.
As for her not telling you things, you're D. She doesn't owe you anything. And you don't owe her anything. Except the basic manners and respect you would show to a complete stranger.
The fact that she's hiding things from you means she's concerned about your reaction. If she didn't care about you she wouldn't care what you thought. So it's not actually a negative, merely a sign of the gulf between you two.
Originally Posted By: 25yearsmlc
If your w's never return, they'll always wonder if your changes lasted/were real and if so, whether they would have lasted & been real for them and if so, they will wonder about & mourn what they lost... they'll second guess their choices, every time something in their new wonderful life, goes wrong every time a holiday comes around, or a memory resurfaces, they will wonder. When things go well for them, they'll wonder if that could have happened anyhow,[i] with their original families...[/i]
Whereas the LBSer who grows, & owns their ROLE in the problems & learned from them, MUST make the best of the situation, for they had no choice in the matter. Those LBSers lives improve. Those LBSers won't wonder or look over their shoulder.
The WAS always will...
HEAR HEAR!
Michelle - Proud DR Rockette S: 28JUL07, D'd: 29OCT09 http://tinyurl.com/27j9qo2
When the LBS truly forgives themselves and let's go of a past they can't fix or change, the ability to see and make correct decisions for themselves is what turns them into the one walking away.
As for me, I've seen things in me that I would have NEVER seen if this hadn't had happened. For that I am truly appreciative. As for my ex, she still checks, she still plays the game, a game she has yet to learn how to play differently. Not because she doesn't want to; but because she doesn't know any better. I'm sad for her.
My opinion, she doesn't know what I have changed or what she will miss. Until she has the ability to figure that out for herself, there is NO way I'm just going to sit here and live in the past. Point? Own your part; Fix you; and move on. Turn it over to a higher power, validate her, don't judge. Be angry, but accept that you are in control of you and you alone. Your feelings should be constantly evaluated by YOURSELF.
She will always have to remember or think about me. Me? I will only remember what I did wrong and what can I do differently now.
I found that the only way I could function, be in the present & available for my children and create a new, better life,
(which is a hell of a lot to do, when you are in serious confusing pain)
was to go with the belief/mantra that we have to
do our best, leave the Results up to God...and not take it back
&eventually it worked, and that was that.
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
When the LBS truly forgives themselves and let's go of a past they can't fix or change, the ability to see and make correct decisions for themselves is what turns them into the one walking away.
As for me, I've seen things in me that I would have NEVER seen if this hadn't had happened. For that I am truly appreciative. As for my ex, she still checks, she still plays the game, a game she has yet to learn how to play differently. Not because she doesn't want to; but because she doesn't know any better. I'm sad for her.
My opinion, she doesn't know what I have changed or what she will miss. Until she has the ability to figure that out for herself, there is NO way I'm just going to sit here and live in the past. Point? Own your part; Fix you; and move on. Turn it over to a higher power, validate her, don't judge. Be angry, but accept that you are in control of you and you alone. Your feelings should be constantly evaluated by YOURSELF.
She will always have to remember or think about me. Me? I will only remember what I did wrong and what can I do differently now.
This is a GREAT post and a great perspective that you have offered, Faith/AK. It may or may not be about forgiveness or making 'correct' decisions, but many LBS become WAS. The WHY's are various. Taking it (getting together) S L O W seems to be key. My own perspective is we build our skills and our standards so much more quickly when we learn to DB or use other methods. We expect more. We understand we're worth so much. We want/expect so much more from a relationship and we know we're willing to give it and give a certain level of commitment.
It doesn't work that way, at least a good deal of the time. And yet, some of us aren't willing to compromise or bend at a certain level.
YOU CHOOSE what YOU can live with. And I think that's what a good deal of you are talking about when you talk about setting boundaries.
EACH PERSON MAKES THEIR CHOICE for their own relationship/life.
What troubles me about 25's post is she comes off as if she knows every sitch.
I will not just follow every poster like sheep to a Shepard.
There is truth to her post for some and BS for others.
It depends on each individual sitch.
But I refuse to be a sheep.
There ARE LBS'ers that are truly genuine in their M. That were wronged by a WAS. Not that they did EVERYTHING right. But they gave everything they had to the marriage.
But of course we rarely discuss that possibility here.
And let me state that I am not in any way angry.
Just giving a different perspective.
M: 42 - W: 41 - M: 18 - T: 23 - D:16 S:14 EA - July 2010 NC w/EA - Nov 2010 Piecing - Jan 2011 I ask for div - Jan 2012 Div papers filed - Mar 2012 I move out - July 2012 Divorce final - Nov 7, 2012
I can see how it seems like the focus is always on what the LBS has done wrong, but there is a reason for this. It is NOT because the WAS is innocent and has done nothing wrong. It is NOT because the LBS is a terrible person. It is because it is all we can control. All WE can do is look at what WE can improve on and work on it. We CANNOT fix the WAS problems for THEM.
So we can talk about all the terrible things the WAS has done, and I agree that many times they have done terrible things, but we cannot fix that. All we can do is work on ourselves.
I know I said this before, but do not confuse forgiveness with approval.
BITS
Happiness is not something ready made. It comes from your own actions.
What troubles me about 25's post is she comes off as if she knows every sitch.
I will not just follow every poster like sheep to a Shepard.
There is truth to her post for some and BS for others.
It depends on each individual sitch.
But I refuse to be a sheep.
There ARE LBS'ers that are truly genuine in their M. That were wronged by a WAS. Not that they did EVERYTHING right. But they gave everything they had to the marriage.
But of course we rarely discuss that possibility here.
And let me state that I am not in any way angry.
Just giving a different perspective.
That's your opinion and you are entitled to your perspective. You are not angry, BUT you definitely show an attachment to someone you don't know. Your opinion always matters, but to just come on to someone's post and express this without warrant leads me to believe you don't have control over your feelings. Your thought turns into a feeling and then emotion allows you to post this. I mean simply...WTF?
Why? What do you hope to accomplish here? LET GO.
If you see something you disagree with, by all means speak your mind, but don't attack. What's the point?
25 can defend herself without question, but I see you trying to control an outcome. Again, what's your point? If her posts bother you then maybe you should look at why...just a suggestion.
