OK... 81 Days

[2stepboogie]

Your wife does more temp checks than the weather man!!

[25yearsmlc]

Oh Denver, I believe


you're really about to enter the


"Piecing" zone...SO read up on it...it's not easy and some say it's the hardest part


but they overlook the value of HOPE and how it colors your efforts in rose colored glass...

when there is little hope to hang onto, things really sukkk


sure, piecing is hard b/c you want to rush it and yet still there are bumps

and they scare you b/c you think every back slide could be the last...

you have to both know you will backslide and it does NOT mean you are failing...SOME level of trust is mandatory

it's hard, but your goal is officially possible now...whether you want it or not...

also, your w is not off base in saying a move in next week is too soon.


Allow me a tiny quibble Denver, okay?

I thought your SS' observation at the coffee place was in fact TRUE

just b/c you did something wrong in the past does NOT make you guilty today

and I worry about undermining his perspective when he was spot on, in truth...ya know?


I mean, he saw the truth about you NOT flirting or doing anything wrong...and then he spoke up for you

and then got shot down-

all b/c you wanted to validate your w, who is

still living in the past and still holding grudges...

Not fair to him (or you) AND not "real data" about the Denver of [i]today
[/i]

she will have to start with the Denver of today as a threshold assumption

at some point

or you'll get rehashing too much and they'll set you back

you must be "allowed" to converse with "female people", not to mention how it helps you professionally, it's also normal friendly behavior.

I'm an extreme extrovert (Meyers Brigg confirms what I already knew about that, big family, lawyer, you get the picture)

but I usually manage to insert a comment about my h, or m, to somehow make sure I don't give the wrong impression with my outgoing nature. You can do the same. My H is comfortable with it (or so I think... )


So maybe next time re word it so you address the fact that your w's reaction was triggered by past mistakes of yours,

but yes, SS was correct, you did nothing wrong that day
nor did HE

but otherwise, and overall,


big picture stuff----

YES, this is good news! ...regardless of what you decide,

it's nice

not being in "stuckville", isn't it?

Congrats!.......

just think how you felt a few weeks ago


and say a big THANK YOU to the big Guy upstairs...at one point I believe you thought only

a miracle would help....well....

So ask HIM for help with the forgiveness part. (I read that God doesn't mind us asking for miracles

he wishes we asked for more of them...


honestly, I think you are on a road with some risks, but which will ultimately lead you to a very good place


Stay on course,

you are doing wonderfully and resiliently well

and it's threads like yours and 9's and 2steps, FaithAK and many from my past here


who all remind me of what great partners men can be, how strong yet fragile their hearts are, how deep their loyalties,

and why it is

that I was able to hug my h, casting off my fears

jumping in with both feet

knowing that indeed it was the right thing to do.

Just so I know I've said it here, THANK GOD...for all of "this"

[LITB]

Denver, I have been following your thread closely as you have been getting some great advice. I don't have anything to add, but to wish you the best of luck with your decision.

[Denver_2010]

Oh Denver, I believe


you're really about to enter the


"Piecing" zone...SO read up on it...it's not easy and some say it's the hardest part

Wow 25. That is REALLY Optimistic. Even I wasn't thinking that quite yet. Remember, I heard the same things back in March. However, I will say that at least my W seems to be proceeding with a little more caution that she was back then. Maybe that's a good sign.

I am proceeding with much caution right now and keeping the boundary that I have set very much in place.

I really hope that you are right though 25.

it's hard, but your goal is officially possible now...whether you want it or not...

also, your w is not off base in saying a move in next week is too soon.

I agree that her moving back in next week would be too soon. I'm not even sure where she got that. I certainly hadn't mentioned it. I'm not even 100% positive that this is what I want right now. I have to know that I can get over everything that has happened in the past several weeks. I'm feeling better about it and know that I want to be able to get over it, but it is still there lingering in my head.

Allow me a tiny quibble Denver, okay?

I thought your SS' observation at the coffee place was in fact TRUE

just b/c you did something wrong in the past does NOT make you guilty today

and I worry about undermining his perspective when he was spot on, in truth...ya know?


I mean, he saw the truth about you NOT flirting or doing anything wrong...and then he spoke up for you

and then got shot down-

all b/c you wanted to validate your w, who is

still living in the past and still holding grudges...

Not fair to him (or you) AND not "real data" about the Denver of [i]today
[/i]

but yes, SS was correct, you did nothing wrong that day
nor did HE

I agree. I actually did tell him that her anger was based on stuff that I had done in the past. I was torn on this though bc I didn't do anything wrong. I also know that W is extremely sensitive to SS blaming her for EVERYTHING recently. And I do want to validate her legitimate issues with me.

And since when do you ask for permission to 'quibble' with me??

but otherwise, and overall,


big picture stuff----

YES, this is good news! ...regardless of what you decide,

it's nice

not being in "stuckville", isn't it?

Congrats!.......

just think how you felt a few weeks ago


and say a big THANK YOU to the big Guy upstairs...at one point I believe you thought only

a miracle would help....well....

Again 25, I LOVE the optimism. But I guess that I am not quite there. I'm certainly not in stuckville as I feel a weird sense of empowerment ever since the OM on the toilet event, and since I laid out my boundary very clearly. But I don't feel out of the woods yet at all. I do feel tons better than I did a few weeks ago though.

you are doing wonderfully and resiliently well

and it's threads like yours and 9's and 2steps, FaithAK and many from my past here


who all remind me of what great partners men can be, how strong yet fragile their hearts are, how deep their loyalties,

Thanks 25. It means a lot to hear you say that. And yes, some of us men are capable of being half way decent!

[quote=25yearsmlcJust so I know I've said it here, THANK GOD...for all of "this" [/quote]

Working on this as well.

Denver

[Harrier]

A few things. I take issue with your "Denver school s*ck" claim. My sister is a teacher in Denver. (mostly kidding)

I disagree with 25 to an extent. I think whether you did something wrong by flirting (yes call it for what it was) depends on your motivation. If you were doing it to "show" W that you still had it, You were wrong and you push her button. Would you have done the same thing with two unattractive, overweight women, what about two grandmas? You went out of your way to tell us they were attractive. Relevant? maybe.

I agree with 25, that you W has to be able to deal with this. Maybe now and in her face isn't the best time and place.

[MrBond]

I agree with 25 in that there is nothing wrong with talking to women.

IMHO alot of it is your W's insecurity. In the past, maybe what she thought was flirting on your part was you being friendly. There is nothing wrong with that. She needed another man to validate her and to feed her ego because she thought you were giving it away to other women. That's BS to a certain extent. It depends on the individual. If she was confident and trusting in you and herself, she wouldn't be looking for something outside to create that feeling.

What one woman might perceive as flirting, another would think of it as no big deal. Plus when you talked to the other women, her own guilt of what she did started playing on her. After all, she had an OM that she hid from you, so you must also have ulterior motives. To a certain degree, you can't keep apologizing for everything. She's going to have to start growing herself.

[thatgirl007]

Denver - I, too, think you might be entering the real piecing zone. I'm no expert, but based on what you've replayed for us, neither one of you is done - and both of you are pretty much all in, even if you (or she, really) can't admit it.

I just wanted to tell you, you're doing a great job. You know, don't beat yourself up over the small things (the women in the coffee shop, etc). We women don't like our men perfect, even though we might complain about it.

[Jack_Three_Beans]

I'll suggest, not to get your hopes up on that piecing part.

In my shoes alone, and only from my experience, I only considered myself piecing AFTER I looked back upon time.

And thought, "Huh, guess I have been piecing awhile."

I didn't even want to call it that because I didn't want to jinx it.

When she is committed to working on your relationship and you are too...then... I'd call it piecing, but only to myself. Even doing so gives hope room to grow, and that creature should be chained and used only when you need it.

[25yearsmlc]

well Denver

I said you were "about to enter" the piecing zone...and I hope I'm right.


But as jack3 says, it's mostly a retrospective "diagnosis"...

and I mean it when I say it's NOT EASY. For me it simply meant "oh, we're really not done. We are exploring..."


One thing you said really grabbed me though.

You said

"I have to know that I can get over everything that has happened in the past several weeks. I'm feeling better about it and know that I want to be able to get over it, but it is still there lingering in my head. "


Denver, forgiveness is a process and none of us KNOW we will be fully successful at it til enough time has passed for us to figure out that "oh, we did it."

I think you have to know you're going to sincerely try your butt off to do it.
And then you do that.

For ME, moving in together was sort of that. IT was a "see if we can get past this..." and that Palm Springs trip helped me know I could shelve things for an amount of time...

seemed like forgiveness was going to be an extended version of that, over and over and that's what it was.

I finally said to myself,

"okay...objectively speaking, though H had his reasons, he was basically a selfish jerk for X amount of time...before then he wasn't, and now he isn't...and we have kids...SOOOOOO. He hurt me but doesn't seem likely to do it again, (not that way at least).....SO what now?"

Assuming, arguendo, that he was A BIG JERK...and that it was temporary--

do I HAVE to divorce him? Some think so...but

Why? To punish? See I don't think so.

Of course if I thought he'd do it again or if he did....I'd be done. For me, a DB ordeal is a once in a lifetime thing...
but
I think it was F. Scott Fitzgerald who said "every man is allowed to be an ass once in his life..."

I'm going with that.

(I'm positive F. Scott Fitzgerald said "forgotten is forgiven." And though you don't realize it now,

for long periods of time as you re-build,

with her or with someone else,

the guy on the toilet will no longer have the power to hurt you at all...

this is true.)


Just my .02

take care

[FaithnAK]

I'm not going to give any advice to you Denver, just a word of caution.

I don't mean to rain on the party for hope, but countless times (Not all) on this board I have seen the WAS all of a sudden seem different and "honest", with the LBS later discovering the WAS just took their "A" deeper underground.

Granted she's a little different since this is "kind of" the second time you have witnessed this. I see a lot of positives but a long way to go.