ooohweee what'sup wit that

[Queen_of_Swords]

Trust. Faith. Love. How do you know when you start? How do you know 10 yrs in, 15yrs, 20, 30. I know my level of commitment. How do I know theirs?

You know when you start when you're strong enough within yourself. When no one can make you dance to their tune by pushing your buttons, because you haven't got any. When you're so sure of who you are, what you stand for, that you are indeed loveable, valuable for yourself, and YOU love and honor yourself.

Once you get to this point, you will not look for someone to fill the holes in your life or repair your wounds, nor will someone that is looking for just that be acceptable to you as a life partner.

That's why the work you're doing on you now is so important. That's why even if she chose to come back , you might not take her back because you've grown in emotional maturity and compassion. You will realise you can't take away her pain, fix or heal the wounds to her self-concept/esteem. You may choose to be friends, but never at the same level of intimacy you once shared, unless she CHOOSES to grow too.

As to their level of commitment, you can't really know it, but you'll have clues.

The surest clue is their family history. Listen to it. Really listen. Where before you heard their life story and you thought, " Oh, I see, well they're a good person, they've survived a lousy family history/abuse/addiction etc.etc. and they're ok!" This time you will think, " Whoa! There is some significant wounding here, a discernable pattern, and they are badly hurt." You will also see it in their behaviour because they will have buttons that make them behave childishly, self destructively, and over the top.


What can I tell you 2Step? I'm still learning, but I'm seeing this more and more clearly as the weeks go by. I hope my sharing has helped your understanding.

[25yearsmlc]

2step,


Your words are eloquent, your pain is raw and yet familiar to me, even years out of my own nightmare I can still recall it with only a short "search" inward...I can't even go there for more than 2 minutes b/c of my intense reaction to it...



But as for the future and how any of us can ever know whether or how deeply we can trust...don't forget the most important thing,





that does apply to all of us. We ALL fear the same things; believing in & loving, and then being WELL deceived, &then left.



So the special woman you meet down the road someday, and yes, she exists,

she will fear the same things you fear.

She will wonder if your fears will make you flee or if your distrust will sabotage the relationship...



But she'll choose to take the risk b/c she'll think, "2Step, is worth it".




And then, you will prove her right.

[FaithnAK]

I got thru your third thread today:)

Your words hit me so hard, that I have to GO BACK and really remember what you are feeling right now.

I'm not going to "fancy" quote you. I'll hit you in email (Warning )

One thing I want to say, is once you are completely healed...you won't EVER judge the next relationship you have as a relationship you had with her. You won't. You have the tools, you have the insight, you have the strength.

However, you have GOT to let go and heal. Easier said than done, but you CAN'T fix her or control HER. You have to accept that she is addicted to OM and you have to accept the fact that there IS SOMEONE who wants to be with 2step that won't sacrifice their integrity.

Glass half full or glass half empty. It's all about your viewpoint and perspective. If 2step is happy, then others will feed off that. Heal! You are not alone. Then worry about what you do next.

You are divorced, she's moved on; F*ck the past. Let go.

I know this isn't what you WANT to hear...nor is it the END. Man, the sooner you are confident in this, IF she faces her reality and you face what makes you happy. She might comeback. You don't know. Say whatever you want, but you don't know the future. If it's meant to be, it will be, if it isn't then something better will come along.

Don't sell yourself short.

[2stepboogie]

Called her back.

X: Hey how are you doing

M: I am doing good thanks. I am aware of the court date. I had no idea you had gotten a letter about nephew. My sister did tell me about the court date and I plan on calling them to tell them what is going on.

X: well I was wondering cause they said I would have a warrant

M: I think you should call them anyways

X: Oh I plan on it I calling them

M: Ok good. Either way I need to call them also so you call the court and I will call the PO.

X: so you did not get the letter?

M: Nope

X: So how did you know

M: like I said my sister told me I just didn’t know you had gotten one.

X: Do you remember the guys name

M: Nope

X: Well you spoke to him. You met him

M: That was over a year ago I couldn’t even pick the guy out on the street if I saw him. Either way you should call

X: I will I doubt your sister got a bench warrant

M: I don’t know what she got but I know she intents on paying the fine

X: Well I don’t have the money and obviously I can’t go to NJ to appear in court

M: Well call them I am sure you can get out of it

X: Yeah I said I will call I will take care of it myself. Talk to you later

M: Ok

We hung up. She was aggravated. I guess she figured I was being short and uncaring on the phone.

A few minutes later my buddy called from OK. We made some small chat and then he said

B: Well I got some stuff to tell you but I want you to be open minded and not react Ok?

M: If you are going to tell me X moved to Tulsa and is in a R with OM I already know

B: How the he!! Did you know that?

M: you are not my only contact.

B: Well yeah she moved in with him in Tulsa

M: yeah I know. She is dead to me buddy. I am sorry it came to this.

B: Well wait a minute I don’t want you going down this path. I want you to think clearly. She is D. She can date as she pleases.

M: Agreed and so can I.

B: yeah you can but I had a 20 minute conversation with her when you called her back that is why she hung up. I asked her if she had told you about OM. She said no. I asked her why? She said she did not want to hurt you anymore. I told her X, you are hurting him more by not saying anything. This is his closure. She then agreed I should tell you but she did not want to tell you. I asked her how she felt about her new R? She said she liked him but was roommates with him. That if she decided to see other people and he decided to see other people the apartment was such that they could do it and not be in each other’s way.
So here is the convo between X and buddy

B: you know you are not done with X and he is not done with you. You guys will get back together because you love him and you know it. He is hurting and his world collapsed when you left. You took everything away from him you devastated him. I am sure he is angry but all that anger stems from hurt.

X: He hurt me to B. He hurt me first. I lost everything that was important to me. My family my career my friends my H
B: yeah but you know what su&cks you could have had it all back. You still can. You left he didn’t. You left.

X: He forced me out. I was scared and I ran. I told him what I wanted what I needed and he did not give it to me. I told him that day on the kitchen I needed his mom out and he said flat out NO.

B: Because he is a man. You made him chose between his mother and his wife. You put him in an impossible position. You know something else he would have picked you every time. You asked him that in the tail end of a fight you had been having. And he reacted. You did not give him a chance to think. Men when faced with those decisions withdraw they need time to think to react. You gave him no time. You just ran.

X: I had to. I had to go. I had no other options. He forced me to leave

B: BS. He didn’t pack your bags. He didn’t load your truck. He didn’t move cross country. You did. It all happened in short order you gave him no time. The more you attacked the more he withdrew. You need to learn a little more about men. You guys had a great M and when you hit a wall instead of finding a way around it through it or under it you bailed. He went one way and you went another only he did not walk too far and then he came back to repair what he broke what he loved. You moved across the country and gave it no time. You did not meet him half way. I get that. But you can’t put that on his door step.

X: I lost everything. I lost it and I could not have gotten it back. He did not change it would have been the same thing. I couldn’t go back to that. X is a great talker, very smooth and he can talk anyone into anything. He could not have changed he is just slick.

B: I know he is. The smoothest talker I have ever met. Guess what? So are you.

X: No I am not

B: BS again and you know it
B: Yes you are. Your body language your facial expression. You could have gotten anything out of him. That man loved you and still does, and so do you.


X: yeah but I don’t do it consciously


B: And neither does he. Look X, you had it all. Great guy who tried and tried to fix what he broke but you never gave him the chance. You never gave your M a chance. You filed. Your R, well you are trying to replace him and you and I both know where this will end.

X: You don’t think I thought about the D, you don’t think I struggled even after I filed. I did.


X: I will always love him I am just not in love with him.

B: Stupidest thing I have ever heard and you know it. You do love him. You guys hit a rock and you will both meet again of that I am sure you know it and I know it. Your path will cross again and you need to do some work. You know what you are doing. You are settling with OM. Plain and simple because your heart is with someone else and you know who that is. You and I know you will end up back together and you have made a mistake a big mistake but that is or you to live.

X: I lost him. He would never take me back now

B: You don’t know sh!t. You had him. It would have been a better M and better R because you both would have learned to deal with things differently. You always had a choice, and I believe you still do.

He said you could have heard a pin drop.

My response to my buddy.

I don’t see it buddy.

B: I will tell you this. This woman is going to hit rock bottom. You know what? She is heading that way already. Forgive with love and do not get stuck in anger and hate. It is not worth it. You will damage yourself and won’t heal properly. As sure as I am Buddy I know what I am telling you to be truth. Don’t do what I did with my X friend. It is a regret I carry around with me forever. It took me years to forgive her and I should have. I did not heal properly. You will get that phone call. Of that I am sure. Bank on it. You were there when I went down that road. You told me fight, climb the mountain, cross the river, walk through fire, and you do everything you can to save your M. Those words you told me 15 years ago. You walked through my misery holding my hand every step of the way. I did not get it until it was to late. Don’t make that mistake. Move on. Live your life. But let go of the anger and the hate. Forgive.

That was it. Time to heal and think. You know when you are healing? When they give you hope and you do not react.

One final note. While I was on the phone with buddy she called back. Twice. I did not answer it.

A few minutes later I get this text

X: If it wouldn’t be too much to ask. I need your sister’s phone number and address. Thanks

I did not respond I was still on the phone so I get another text about 30 minutes later

X: I gather ur not going to respond. Yet I don’t know why I am surprised. I’ll figure it out on my own. I should have known better than to ask u for help. Because of course it makes sense that I handle ex-nephews legal problems.

When I got off the phone I responded with a text
M: I was on the other line so I couldn’t pick up. Sorry I missed your call but I realize it’s late so I won’t be calling back. As I told you on the phone I will be calling the courthouse tomorrow. Don’t worry about the court date I will attend. My sister’s number is XXX-XXX-XXXX

X: Well that’s not what us said on the phone. You were unhelpful and just said u didn’t know anything. I expect nothing from you. I will take care of it myself.

M: I said I would call on the phone. Anyways…..Goodnight

X: Anyways…U were a jerk. I was not being nasty with you

30 minutes later I responded

M: I was addressing your concern I told you I would help you take care of it. I don’t think I was being a jerk. Goodnight.

That is it my friend. Goodnight

[2stepboogie]

2step,Your words are eloquent, your pain is raw and yet familiar to me, even years out of my own nightmare I can still recall it with only a short "search" inward...I can't even go there for more than 2 minutes b/c of my intense reaction to it...But as for the future and how any of us can ever know whether or how deeply we can trust...don't forget the most important thing,
that does apply to all of us. We ALL fear the same things; believing in & loving, and then being WELL deceived, &then left.
So the special woman you meet down the road someday, and yes, she exists,she will fear the same things you fear. She will wonder if your fears will make you flee or if your distrust will sabotage the relationship...But she'll choose to take the risk b/c she'll think, "2Step, is worth it". And then, you will prove her right.

A return visit of 25. Welcome back. Your insight is always welcomed. Is she out there? I hope so. You touched on another fear. Will I sabotage the R? God I hope not. I love to love. I love to feel love. No greater fulfillment in my life. I loved being a family man. Little things gave me such great pleasure. You guys from Alaska come around so late. Haha. I am half dead right now and need to get some sleep. I will post in more detail to you tomorrow.

I got thru your third thread today:) Your words hit me so hard, that I have to GO BACK and really remember what you are feeling right now.I'm not going to "fancy" quote you. I'll hit you in email (Warning )One thing I want to say, is once you are completely healed...you won't EVER judge the next relationship you have as a relationship you had with her. You won't. You have the tools, you have the insight, you have the strength.However, you have GOT to let go and heal. Easier said than done, but you CAN'T fix her or control HER. You have to accept that she is addicted to OM and you have to accept the fact that there IS SOMEONE who wants to be with 2step that won't sacrifice their integrity. Glass half full or glass half empty. It's all about your viewpoint and perspective. If 2step is happy, then others will feed off that. Heal! You are not alone. Then worry about what you do next.You are divorced, she's moved on; F*ck the past. Let go.I know this isn't what you WANT to hear...nor is it the END. Man, the sooner you are confident in this, IF she faces her reality and you face what makes you happy. She might comeback. You don't know. Say whatever you want, but you don't know the future. If it's meant to be, it will be, if it isn't then something better will come along.Don't sell yourself short.

AK. Three threads? Wow you really are going to read it huh? I am honored. I will comment to you also tomorrow. Here in the original 13 it’s way passed my bedtime. More to come.

[FaithnAK]

Great intel. Want my opinion? If you say no, too bad....I'm gonna tell you anyway.

Your buddy planted a seed...

No more contact, unless she initiates it.

Give her her space and time and really know you have to continue to change. Whether you are done or not, she still could ask "WTF WAS I THINKING?"

Keep moving, but if she treats you with kindness, don't be a dick; Just stand up for what you believe, validate her, and move the F on.

Word of advice, tell your buddy to not tell you anymore info. It will only confuse you and give you hope or it will make you angry. Your change is for you and SHE needs to come to her own conclusion.

Your future, not mine. Just sayin

[2stepboogie]

Keep moving, but if she treats you with kindness, don't be a dick

Hardest part for me to get. I am committed to staying true to my promise of being kind throughout the whole thing, but I gotta tell you it is hard. My own feelings have just as much merrit as hers and I have A LOT to be angry about. It annoys me that she thinks I don't. Proves that she still does not get it.

Your buddy planted a seed

Oh Absolutely. He knows it also and that is all he wanted to do.

No more contact, unless she initiates it

Not a chance. NOC is something I am looking forward to. The way I see it is very simple. When (and she will) Reach that point where she says "what have I done" then the same effort she has made to leave will have to be the same effort she will have to make to repair the damage she has done. Even then, it will be MY choice and my decision. She will have a tall mountain to climb. Not as a punishment, I don't work that way, but because she will have to want it and desire it and fight for it. I am worth the effort.

Keep moving, but if she treats you with kindness, don't be a dick

Exactly why right now, the NC is a great thing to have.

By the way she called again today to talk about her court order. Small talk but she sounded agitated and said I was being a jerk on the phone. I wasn't I was just not to engaging.

Told her I knew she lived in Tulsa she was quite.

[ninelives]

As always 2 step , you are the benchmark that I strive for. You have inspired me so much over the last few months. I read all your post and chime in when I can but you seem to have it figured out. A few slips here and there but who hasnt. Even 25 and Sandi probably had their share of slips in the past.

What is your buddy's agenda for planting the seed? Im sure he wants you back with your wife I just hope he isnt preventing you from going forward and not hanging on to hope. Hope is a wonderful thing but can also be our worst enemy at times. Prevents you from getting a life and moving forward at times.

I know you still hurt 2step, but I hope you can lay your head down with the comfort that you have done all you can. The ball is now in her court and hopefully she doesnt wait too long to wake up. I think that is the most common theme amongst some of these WAS's, that they do wake up eventually but are not able to fix the damage because of the amount of time wasted doing what?

Mike and the mechanics comes to mind. All i need is a miracle.

" always the same old story, you never know what you had till its gone"

9

[25yearsmlc]

I had many "slips" and backslides


and lost my temper, (a LOT pre-DBing) and even after. Yes, less...



but trouble is, even after I did struggle. My bonus was that h usually didn't see the struggles.



I am a person who believes that "where the head goes, the heart will follow". And this site helped me mentally first, then emotionally and




I think what frustrates me here, is either seeing someone repeat my own mistake


and or, KNOWING what they need to do and yet not doing it.


Frankly, I didn't fully DB until I overcame the parts of it that seemed counter intuitive. You know what I mean?



"Applauding loudly for the ONE % of positives" h did, seemed over the top to me....and very difficult when the other 99% of his behavior seemed bad, to me


That's just one example and I'm sure you have your own.


But once I committed fully to "the program" I at least recognized my flaws and mistakes faster, and began to take protective steps ahead of time...

it helps. At some point, those who are fundamentally healthy, will do anything to stop feeling such pain.

DB worked for me. But I sure did fall often at the start and still some, mid way through.

[ninelives]

sorry 2step, going to HJ for a second.

25 , when you say applaud the 1%, my W did find a guitar online and gave to son. He absolutely loves it. And I am dark right now.

Im thinking that when i give her my half of the money, maybe I could slip in a little note that reads something like.

" Well done on the gift, he loves it, You were always very good at picking out the right gift, "

Something like that.

9