Well for one we are up to snuggling on the couch, and hugs every other day. Come to think of it she lays her head on me a lot when on the couch. We still playfight a lot, and have lots of tickle fights. Things are far from being frigid between both of us. I am happy for that.
Just two days ago she tried to punish me with no sex for two weeks for not turning off the AC in her car. I told her that sort of punishment would not help me remember to turn it off, and that's why we have such intimacy problems, and that I would not tolerate that sort of thing. She apologized a few minutes. So yeah that's definitely a measurable. Also no using the threat of divorce to win arguments. Now whenever she says that I just tell her, if this issue is so important to you that you want a divorce go ahead. (the issue usually is not, and this behavior has dramatically decreased).
I'm also expecting ml about 2-3 times a week. It has to be good ml not pity sex or duty sex. Once she meets these and other benchmarks, we can keep moving forward.
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
....Just two days ago she tried to punish me with no sex for two weeks for not turning off the AC in her car. I told her that sort of punishment would not help me remember to turn it off, and that's why we have such intimacy problems, and that I would not tolerate that sort of thing. She apologized a few minutes.
....Also no using the threat of divorce to win arguments. Now whenever she says that I just tell her, if this issue is so important to you that you want a divorce go ahead. (the issue usually is not, and this behavior has dramatically decreased).
I'm also expecting ml about 2-3 times a week. It has to be good ml not pity sex or duty sex. Once she meets these and other benchmarks, we can keep moving forward.
Wow, I go have a weekend and so much happens. It sounds like the OW lesbian date didn't happen. Again, actions speak louder than words.
You wife does sound like she enjoys testing you and challenging you. You might want to think about that and how you might be reinforcing her doing this. Some of your 180's above sound like they are taking some of the fun out of her MLC behavior, which is good.
Like 25, I don't think that an open marriage would work for me. I also know that when I was at the emotional bottom of my SSM, a sex therapist helped negotiate with my wife and myself what a "solid" or good marriage should include as far as ML.
It sounds like you have been getting lots of good advice from a variety of sources. Becareful about saying that you need a solid marriage prior to allowing other partners in, as you might get a solid marriage and then destroy it with OP's. I wouldn't promise her a future course of action, unless you are sure you can handle it.
Four quick comments.
First, at some point you need to tell her that the two of you need to go in for some joint marriage counseling (prefferably with a liberal minded sex therapist since bisexuality on your W's part and OM are going to be discussion topics). The two of you would be better off it the counseling were to happen sooner than later.
Second, have you spent time figuring out what brought about your wife's MLC? Was it your separation, her jealousy that you might be cheating on her when you were overseas, her fear that she might loose you? She sounds like someone who is insecure. If you are truly important to her, all of this may be her mind game to try to keep some distance so if you are KIA she will feel she can survive. When people are deeply afraid of something, they can compensate in really dumb ways.
Third, your car AC and no sex for weeks story reminded me of something. I think that you handled that pretty well. However, I once listend to a Dr. Laura show (yes, I was channel surfing and she is an opinionated hypocrite) while she was discussing weight loss. One lady called in and said she had figured out a way to motivate her husband loose weight. As his wife she knew his likes and kinks. She told her husband that for every 10 pounds he lost, he could choose a sexy outfit that she would wear for him in their bedroom and celibrate the lost weight. She told Dr. Laura that the weight has just been coming off her husband and he seems both happy about it, healthier and really motivated. The point of this is that if your wife wants to "motivate" you to turn off the car AC (lights) or just about anything else, there are positive and negative reinforcement methods. Positive reinforcement usually works best. It is time she learned that lesson. Any yes denial of sex is not appropriate ever in a marriage. However, special treats can be just that, special treats as opposed to using sex to win arguments. Sort of like the NMMNG idead of getting your needs and the needs of your family meet not focusing on what you want or your pleasure.
Fourth and final comment is you are probably ready to read Dr. David Schnarch's book the Passionate Marriage (PM). My advice is get the audio book on CD along with the book. The book will be a really hard clinical read, but after the audio CD, you will at least have a road map and summary to motivate you though the classroom homework reading. Schnarch is somewhat "kink friendly" but more importantly he views marriage as very very hard work. Your comments about marriage and compromise suggest to me that you might find PM to provide you with insights into how you can calm (self soothe) yourself in regards to jealousy and loosing your wife, how you can stretch yourself while you and your wife grow, and how you can focus on true intimacy with your wife.
I once had a dicussion with my wife, when she told me she wanted more intimacy. I described some of Schnarch's intimacy building exercises (kissing eyes wide open till calm, etc.) and my wife told me she didn't want that much intimacy. If you build a strong marriage, PM is a way to stretch yourself so that both you and your spouse can get more of what you both want out of a marriage.
A final thought and that is boundaries are important, but they will be challenged so set them only if you are sure of them or it will be a counter productive exercise.
Good luck to you. Keep focused on your GAL. Focus on your wife's actions and not her words. Understand that she is in a MLC and rebelling against you, testing your resolve, and generally trying to figure out who she is. She needs help and your love. She is not the Susan (strong soldiers wife) that 25 talked about. There aren't many women out there that are that strong and devoted. The soldiers wife story was a saint and deserves our prayers.
You GB as you know deserve a woman who will love you and treat you well. You have found a woman that you love and who has treated you well at times. You need to understand that she can only change herself and that you can't force her to do anything. The common divorce phase, that they married too young, before they matured comes to mind, but you are trying to make your marriage work, which I applaud you for, and you are working at making your wife feel loved.
Good luck
>43 years of marriage--My wife and I are now closer than we have been in decades. I believe that my SSM is over.
25 I agree with you. I don't like it either. The more I think about it the more it surprises me that I wasn't the WAS.
I have not had the love and respect I deserve. I love her so much I will keep trying but it will be under my terms. I'm done doing it under hers because the more I give the more she demands. She needs to learn to be happy with what I am willing to give. If not it's over.
25 I agree with you. I don't like it either. The more I think about it the more it surprises me that I wasn't the WAS.
I have not had the love and respect I deserve. I love her so much I will keep trying but it will be under my terms. I'm done doing it under hers because the more I give the more she demands. She needs to learn to be happy with what I am willing to give. If not it's over.
GB, I want to clarify a couple things from my last post.
I personally do not agree with the concept of an "open M." It's an oxymoron as far as I am concerned.
But, that is MY opinion and MY belief.
My point, is that I have not heard from you what YOU truly believe/think.
I have not seen you post YOUR goals.
You seem to be all over the place, and it seems to be all reactions to your W.
The advice from the beginning, for everyone, is to pull back and work on ourselves.
"Find ourselves" for lack of a better word.
Get back to this. Dig deep. Find out what you truly want.
TBH, I don't think you're in a spot to set a boundary, because you haven't defined them for yourself yet, and I don't think you are ready to enforces them if you do.
Like I said before, I would like to see a post from you that does not include your W.
Define your goals, your boundaries, your interpretation of what a good M is. Find out what you really want out of all of this. Not just for your M, but for you.
BITS
Happiness is not something ready made. It comes from your own actions.
All Thanks for your input and advice. While I don't have a set list of goals yet, I do have a general idea of what I want. Things like being respected, and feeling loved, and secure in the relationship are paramount. I've also noticed that since I put my foot down she's been trying to act like there are no issues in the M. Technically she has avoided telling me if she is willing to respect the boundary I set, and said about 5 days ago that she needed to think.
This is starting to drive me nuts and would like to know if I should do something about it.
I was thinking of taking some time to compile my list, and share it with her. I would then ask her to make one for me. I don't know I think this would be a good way to get things out in the open without being confrontational. What do you guys think.
All Thanks for your input and advice. While I don't have a set list of goals yet, I do have a general idea of what I want. Things like being respected, and feeling loved, and secure in the relationship are paramount. I've also noticed that since I put my foot down she's been trying to act like there are no issues in the M. Technically she has avoided telling me if she is willing to respect the boundary I set, and said about 5 days ago that she needed to think.
This is starting to drive me nuts and would like to know if I should do something about it.
I was thinking of taking some time to compile my list, and share it with her. I would then ask her to make one for me. I don't know I think this would be a good way to get things out in the open without being confrontational. What do you guys think.
I think you're still walking on eggshells, which is what got you into this mess to begin with, GB.
How about simply asking her "What are your intentions regarding this marriage? I'd like to know your thoughts." ?
Starsky
P.S. If she dodges with ANY sort of an "I still don't know," then you need to let her know that anything other than a "I'm willing to commit to working on this marriage, monogamously" will be taken by you as a "No," and that YOU then have some decisions to make now.
1) makes a list with diametrically opposed "needs"? and or
2) says you are "breaking your word" and she can't "trust YOU"? and or
3) sulks and cuts you off all physical affection and won't even discuss this?
be ready for these before you give her a list. And if it's a "list" it better be short and SPECIFIC....
For instance, one of my best friends (Army Vet too) was attractive, funny and smart, and single. But she really wanted to meet the "right guy". I asked her what she was looking for in a man and she sent me a typed single spaced page, fully filled in, of what she HAD TO HAVE in a man. Almost everything was a "dealbreaker"...
she's still single...get it?
What I want in a man?
Secure (enough), intelligent, good character, with a sense of humor and a similar world view (e.g., not a Communist, radical Islamic)
Why so simple?
B/C a man with good character is inherently kind and hard working. A man who is secure enough isn't needy or clingy. He's a MAN...and similar world views means we have at least some values and interests in common.
(GB, don't tell my feminist friends this okay? But I LIKE a man who can open the big pickle jar, will go find out what that weird noise is downstairs, opens doors for me...& makes me feel protected...)
GB, do you lead soldiers? I'm not asking to insult but to understand your role in the military. I'm trying to come up with analogies that might help but Idk your specialty so if you can say it without losing privacy, please do. It may help us help you.
good luck in this journey. Trust that you WILL find love and companionship and maybe, we hope, it'll be with her.
If not, fear not. You will not remain alone for your life. You're the type of man who will make a good partner for someone.
Make sure you continue to be a man only a fool would leave.
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
For instance, one of my best friends (Army Vet too) was attractive, funny and smart, and single. But she really wanted to meet the "right guy". I asked her what she was looking for in a man and she sent me a typed single spaced page, fully filled in, of what she HAD TO HAVE in a man. Almost everything was a "dealbreaker"...
