I am the devil....

[AntoniaB]

I realize, Tad, that when it comes to your kids you have to have interaction with her some times. However, you really have to train yourself to talk only about the kids with her and no more. I may be wrong but I think to some extent that the MLCer has a tendency to PULL us into conversations that go bad. I don't know if that is what happened here--if she brought up her procedure or you did--but if she did, then got all offended when you reacted with any controlling statements, it is like she baited you. If she feels miserable about herself, she wants to project that and blame someone else. She takes you, whom she KNOWS will react in a controlling way on some level as she knows you to be that way, and she starts that ball rolling. You act the way you always have with her; it validates her negativity towards you...bad interaction results.

I think sometimes the MLCer thinks aloud and that starts off these exchanges. Ex.: my XH and I never had kids by choice. We were ADAMANTLY opposed to having kids and he had had a vasectomy maybe 8 years into the marriage. And due to certain health issues with me in later life, I couldnt' have them if I chose to. So the last time he was here with me at the house, he was sitting on the couch and, in a sort of "thinking aloud" moment, randomly said, "You know my mom thinks she is going to get grandchildren out of me now. I told her no but she really thinks so and is telling the whole family this."

OH MY GOD did this push my buttons. I mean, I took this as "you denied me kids and maybe I wanted them", "my girlfriend is 28 and doesn't have the health issues you do", "my girlfriend is much more liked by my mom than you ever were as mom never liked you since you didn't like kids", "she is BETTER for me than you", "I'm going to marry her and have kids with her", I mean ALL THAT ran through my head. I wanted to die.

And I reacted with just outrage and it escalated.

Do I think he was trying to hurt me? In retrospect, no. I think he had no idea what he was saying, the enormity of it, of how I'd take it. He said it with this faraway look in his eyes that he got when MLC started.

So I agree with the other posters here that you were controlling--and you see it, and you'll hopefully act to change that. But another aspect of all this is that sometimes these people deliberately bait us into arguments because they KNOW our reaction and when they get it, they feel validated for their choices. "I told myself I left because he is XXX. Well, this is more proof, so I'm right." OR they bait us because they just think aloud with their crazy talk.

BOTH are dangerous, and the best thing we can do is NOT engage with them.

Practice saying a few stock phrases, things like "I'm sorry you feel that way." "I'm sorry to hear that." "I'm going to get going now." And walk away.