Harrier

[Harrier]

Random thoughts

1. I really believe my wife is conflicted about the moving out thing, but I believe that she believes that has to make good on what she said or else I won't get it. She has drawn a line now, if she were on this site, I know people would be telling her to stick to it.

2. Met with our MC today. (wife knows). I was very interesting and very productive. He wants to meet with us before we make any decisions on living apart. He is a great MC. (reminds me of Jack)

3. MC put a fine point on the issue between my W and I. His snooping advice was similar to what 25yearsmlc said said (not bad for a L). but he added a few things though.

4. I wonder if I'm too nice sometimes and do too much. I mean it's hard for me to let my W fall on her own, especially where the kids are involved. I've been letting her fall though, but I still make dinner most nights.

5. Not related to anything particular. Everytime I hear "Bottle of Smoke" by the Pogues. I remember the exact place where I heard them for the first time. I hope I get another shot of seeing them in concert.

6.Things are much calmer @ home now.

[Harrier]

Okay...Here is the latest.

So as I said above I went to see our MC today by myself. My W had encouraged me to go see him to see if he coule help identify why I wasn’t feeling a 100% connection with my W about a month ago. I also felt like we were kinda stuck.

But between the making of the appt and today, the Phone fiasco happened. That really put us on edge.

So I went to se our guy today. I first explained why I originally made the appt. He seemed like he kinda understood. Then I launch into the whole living apart thing

I lay out mostly everything including my W's EA. The fact that I snoop. When I see something I freakout at times, etc.

He kinda boils things downs. He said that first of all I needed to feel like my W is committed to this marriage and I don’t feel that and I haven’t felt that in a while. I think that’s why I was using divorce as a way for my wife to assure me...and she did for most of last year.

He aslo addressed the snooping thing. He said that I did it when I was bored, anxious or lonely or a combination of all three. He said that it didn’t matter that i was focusing on one particular guy, because there would also be something else down the road if I didn’t address it now.

He said, what I suspected, was his theory on the last year. In most marriage couples, where the spouse works with the opposite sex there is a potential for thoughts about straying to come into play. It’s pretty natural. Most times the other spouse is able to deal with it rather quickly an easily he said for me, I had a lot of things going on last year and I lost that ability to cope with it.

And once it’s started, it’s like a drug almost. There is a response in my brain when I do it..a part that gets satisfied. He said is the same part of the brain that is active when you look at porn. Basically, he said the only way to deal with it is to chip away at it in small piece. Like first don’t look at the phone records. When you have a handle on that...move onto something else to work on.

And to be honest, I have been doing that with some other issue.

He also said that because of the EA and my actions there are trust issue between my W and I. We can be the greatest friends (and he did say that he could tell that we had a really strong friendship foundation) but if the trust isn’t there it will basically implode. I think my W and I kinda knew this. He said that the piece that needs to be addressed.

He said my W needs to feel like I”m committed to the marriage as well.

He did say one thing that kinda shocked me and made me take a hard look at myself. I was talking about the things I wanted in a marriage-- things (6 or so) I could put down on a list and give it to my wife. I said If I wrote down those things my W would neve agree to the even if they were complete reasonable. Then he said the thing that go me thinking. he said about the list ‘You want to own her and she doesn’t want to be owned.”

That blew my mind. I mean I”m a pretty liberal guy and would never think that about myself. It did cause me to thing a lot.

So then he said that he wanted to see us again. He said that he thinks we need to talk before we make any definite decisions about me moving out. He said he thinks there are things we can do to avoid that.

He basically agreed with me that moving out would make my and W’s life 10X more stressful, especially with the the little kids. He also agreed that he thinks my W is conflicted about it.

I’m pretty sure she will agree to meet with him.

My problem is that I have to bring it up tomorrow and I hope I can do it w/o it turning into an R talk.

Other than that things have been going well. I kinda getting the glimpse of forgiveness.

[Harrier]

25, Jack.

I need your advice when you get a chance.

Here is the deal. As I said I saw our MC on Thursday. It was highly productive. He said that he wants to meet with my wife and I again, soon.

But I don't necessarily want to bring it up with my W, because it will devolve into a R talk. I can't keep waiting because I don't want my W to think I'm hiding my MC visit (I told her but I doubt she remembers) and I want to meet with the MC sooner rather than later. But to do that I have to talk to her.

I really think the MC might give me W an "out" for the living apart thing. Anywho. Thoughts? Advice? Ideas?
I think it's probably going to be tomorrow.


And 25, I realized something the other day. I haven't looked at phone records for almost 2 weeks. I haven't snooped one bit, not one. Why?
After meeting with the MC, I realized my mistake. I kept trying to not snoop for my W. I mean I love her and I want to treat her with respect. But for me that wasn't a good reason. I know it sounds selfish, but I needed to not snoop for ME and ME alone. Once I realized that it kinda clicked and make is much easier.

I think our conversations along with the MC visit really help on this.

No R talk all week, positive interactions. How's that? eh

[25yearsmlc]

I think you have a plan.


Soon you'll see that forgiveness, & not snooping, and letting go are all actually FOR US first...the R's second...

so no, it's not selfish. It's a way to survive this ordeal and come out the other side, a better, more contented person.

It means less self inflcted pain. Like I said, at the beginning of my h's MLC or whatever it was, I was CONSUMED BY PAIN AND ANGER...ME...

not h. ME. And my kids...I was so preoccupied with MY PAIN and anger, like twins that were attached to me, I went nowhere and met no one without telling them the big UNFAIR thing my h was "doing to ME"...


I became a real drag. Thank God for the 2 x 4's my older sister gave me. Then I came here.

I changed. The m changed and h changed. Even our kids changed.

It's better now.

Keep working and looking within, it really is where the main journey lays.

[Harrier]

Well that really blew.

I knew it would happen. I talked to my W about the meeting with the MC...and as I predicted it got launched into a huge R talk. i did a horrible job of Dbing.

Starts off with my W saying "don't think this changes anything." It's like she wont even listen to what the MC has to say about other options beside me moving out.

My 2 weeks of good interactions didn't change sh!t. I Know, I know it's not enough time, but frankly time is running out.

She doesn't five a hoot that I don't really snoop anymore...she still thinks I do.

Then she said a lot of hurtful things. She doesn't want to have sex with me...I think the thought repulses her. She hates that she has to "break my heart" by asking me to move out. Booooo Frickin Hooo. She doesn't have to. She doesn't feel safe or secure with me.

then she gives me the standard B.S. about how she loves me and she doesn't' want reach a point where she hates me again. But doesnt' give one cr@ap about how my feelings for her might changes.

She's willing to risk everything on this stupid plan. Part of me just wants to file and get it over with or worse. But then I'd still have to move out.

I don't know how I feel about her anymore. I mean I look at her and all I see is someone who doesn't want me around. (She claims that this isn't true)

I'm effed.

[25yearsmlc]

Need some clarification...

so we know what she DOESN"T want...what does she want?

Your last line confused me. She does want you around? What?

why is she going to see the MC if she's going to ignore what they say? Why bother?

What if its' about the kids? Don't the kids matter?

oh, and what's it mean when she says she does NOT feel "safe" with you?


Is she hinting that she fears you? What is that based on?

[Harrier]

1. What she wants - She wants to live apart.

2. last line - she says that she still wants me to hang with her, do stuff as a family. Said she likes and still respects me. But said some hurtful things and clearly doesn't want me to live in the same house with her. When I look at her, I see someone who doesn't want me to live with her.

3.MC - I have no idea. I suggest this very thought and she said we should still see him.

4. Kids - one of my main concerns. She thinks they need her and they will be fine mostly if we structure it in a certain way.

5. Safe - her dunno. I don't think she fears me in terms of physical/emotional issues. I think she means like in a safe, secure relationship. Like she doesn't trust me not to hurt her feelings with some of my actions i.e. snooping.


I don't know if this is some bullsh!t scam so she can be with her mentor. I don't think so, I think she is sincere in working on us. But I have seem some crazy stuff on the forums here guys who get blindsided by their W or STBXW

[Jack_Three_Beans]

But I have seem some crazy stuff on the forums here guys who get blindsided by their W or STBXW

Those are them, this is you.
Some of those people allowed themselves to be fooled. Hell I did, for awhile.

That si their story, and many of them aren't even done with their story despite what they say or write.

Do not let other peoples situations turn yours into a cautionary tale.

If you went by statistics alone Harrier, you'd quit.

There is far more to this than looking at the odds and placing a bet.

She doesn't five a hoot that I don't really snoop anymore...she still thinks I do.

Rather than me say anything about this, answer a question for me. When won't she?

[Harrier]

hello

I am learning to trust. Why? I have no choice really. If I can't trust her again - in all respects - then I might as well quit now.

It looks like we are moving ahead with the living apart plan. I don't call it a separation because we aren't really separating our lives per se. The only question still seems to be when.

Initially we talked about July 1, but I think August 1 might be more realistic. The place I found is within walking distance of our house. My Wife loves that idea.

I really have to trust her on this as she thinks it will let us heal.

My W is really confusing me on this. Her words and actions don't match up with someone who wants me not to live with her.

I mean, I've brought up sleeping in the same bed still because at some point we won't if I move out. She said there is no reason to change that now. she still is fine with hanging out and doing stuff. I don't think ML is off the table at this point.

Today, she ran out of gas and called me. I helped her and she sends me a text that says - thanks,it was nice to see you in the middle of the work day.;)

She tells me she loves me and how important I am to her live and not just because I'm our boys father.

Heck this week she even decide not to go to a conference in DC for 3 days.

I guess my only goals is to keep doing what I'm doing (and she did comment on the last 2 weeks). Show her the changes. And see what happens. Maybe she might decide that living apart isn't such a good thing when it really comes down to it. She will get a taste of what it is like in a couple weeks when I go to Colorado for a family reunion for a week. I'm taking our oldest son too. (I'm getting sworn in in Colorado too)

I guess like 25mlc, I want to show her how things could be.

[25yearsmlc]

hello

I am learning to trust. Why? I have no choice really. If I can't trust her again - in all respects - then I might as well quit now.

100% true. BINGO ^^^^^



Initially we talked about July 1, but I think August 1 might be more realistic. The place I found is within walking distance of our house. My Wife loves that idea.

I really have to trust her on this as she thinks it will let us heal.

My W is really confusing me on this. Her words and actions don't match up with someone who wants me not to live with her.

I guess my only goals is to keep doing what I'm doing (and she did comment on the last 2 weeks). Show her the changes. And see what happens. Maybe she might decide that living apart isn't such a good thing when it really comes down to it. She will get a taste of what it is like in a couple weeks when I go to Colorado for a family reunion for a week.

Let this summer time while she's still in the same home, provide enough space for her so the "need" for time apart isn't there. That's a big part of what your DBIng efforts have to show.

I guess like 25mlc, I want to show her how things could be.

correct...simple, really.... (I KNOW it's hard, we get it...but it ain't complicated!!)
And don't you see ANY upsides to the time apart?

wouldn't a good 180 be YOU looking forward to that? Maybe you can rent more "manly" films and not worry about leaving the toilet seat up and seeing the upsides...time with the kids and your GAL things and a little mystery now and then....


btw I think her actions are meant as reassurance from her.

Time will tell.