The big punch - Redux

[JustStunned]

MK, She doesn’t perceive it as lying to herself. It is what she believes based on her perceptions.

IMO and sadly, most people form theories and opinions then look for facts to fit. If the facts don’t fit they are either discarded or reshaped. (Rewriting history)

When someone is so entrenched in a decision or an opinion that they are reshaping facts then you cannot argue or dissuade them. They have to determine on their own the truth of the matter.

IMO this extends to all of us to one degree or another. It is intrinsic to human nature. It even rears its head in the science community where the scientific method with peer review was developed to counter it.

[Redo]

MK, She doesn’t perceive it as lying to herself. It is what she believes based on her perceptions.

IMO and sadly, most people form theories and opinions then look for facts to fit. If the facts don’t fit they are either discarded or reshaped. (Rewriting history)

When someone is so entrenched in a decision or an opinion that they are reshaping facts then you cannot argue or dissuade them. They have to determine on their own the truth of the matter.

IMO this extends to all of us to one degree or another. It is intrinsic to human nature. It even rears its head in the science community where the scientific method with peer review was developed to counter it.

True indeed JS. Very true.

[25yearsmlc]

myk,

the biggest weird thing I learned doing criminal law/defense was how many of my clients could justify their criminal behavior. I am not equating WASs to criminals but there is an analogy.

I mean, more than half, if honest, did NOT think that

1) what they did was really wrong or

2) if it was wrong, it was "understandable" for THEM to do it or

3) IF it was wrong and not so understandable, then they had gotten punished too much for it...(even when they got probation).
and
4) everyone else does it too.


A boss I had, who cursed so colorfully, once said it best when he said,

Jerks (I am paraphrasing, trust me)..."Jerks are jerks, b/c they don't think they're jerks". No one thinks they're being evil and chooses that. They justify.

At times, They rationalize the unforgivable.

I had a murderer's mother tell me that 1) her son was innocent despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary and then she said

"Well, even if he did kill someone, is that so wrong, in the context of our times?"...

It's not hard to see why HE was a killer. He lived in a world where he was never accountable, until he killed.

Finally, one other point.

While your wife may be angrier at you now than she would be if you caved in,

I sincerely believe in the long run, her respect for you will be higher by you fighting for your daughter.

Respect is essential to love. Remember that.

Keep on keeping on...

[Still learning]

Yes, 25, respect is essential to love....

You can only love someone you respect. You can only accept love when you have your self-respect, which is why people shape their "truth" to feel that they are "good" people. In the end I think that's why we do what we feel is right, b/c without that we feel unworthy of the love we need. Be strong and calm MK, and think long-term. The negotiations take a while, but your daughter will want and need you in her life long after that.

[Redo]

Thanks 25, SL:

I agree with you on the love comes with respect. Never realized that it was important.

I am an engineer. So i look at everything logically and analytically. I know that my wife does not work that way and i have tried my best in our marriage to be more emphatic and look at things from her shoes. But some of what she is asking flies in face of all reason.

I think i understand why my is being this way. Just a theory. I know for a fact that wife is totally crazy after daughter. Very very protective. That is why she wanted the divorce in the first place. Now she wants nothing in daughter's life to change. Her parents, her activities, her dreams for daughter (and i guess mine too). So she knows that if daughter is ferried between two places, her life would be interrupted. That is why she is fighting so hard. But again in the middle of all this wife does not want to give up her freedom of staying with her folks, having things her way. She always told me that in life everything had consequences. I am surprised that she's not realizing that herself.

Thanks guys. Really appreciate your help!

[25yearsmlc]

don't forget her punitive ways... and that she's living in the past when it comes to her views of you.

Don't let her keep you in the past.

You owned up to what you did wrong, you changed it, so no more apologies for the past. (I am assuming you owned up to things to her, right?)

Don't convince yourself that you not being in your d's life is somehow good for d.

Your d will grow up thinking she did not matter enough to you. That's a deep wound and no matter what w says to her, that's just a fact.

Don't let that happen

[Redo]

You owned up to what you did wrong, you changed it, so no more apologies for the past. (I am assuming you owned up to things to her, right?)

Yup, pretty much what i did during the month of January. If i do a mistake, i am usually the first to raise my hand and admit it. Somehow cannot keep it away from wife.

Your d will grow up thinking she did not matter enough to you. That's a deep wound and no matter what w says to her, that's just a fact.

Never realized this fully until you guys drilled it into me. I agree totally. Wife might not know it now, but i dont want daughter's future life to be ruined because i was not there for her. I'll definitely keep this one as my highest priority.

[ninelives]

My Karma

Dont really know what to add to the wisdom of 25 and the vets. I feel for you though and want you to know that you are often in my thoughts.

At least in my sitch I have my boys right with me and cant imagine going through this without their love. You are in a tough spot but know this. The people on this board are on your side 100% and through reason , good advice and patience, I think you will prevail in the end.

Hang in there buddy.

9

[Redo]

Thanks 9. As i said, people on this forums have been the best support system i can ever ask for. I am really thankful for that.

Journaling...

So wife called up last night saying that she'd like to talk to me about the possession schedule. I've already been burnt by this talk last week. And i had just come home from work and was cooking dinner. So i told her so. I told her that we could talk today or she could email me. I tried not to be cold. I did feel bad that i was brushing her off. But i had to do it. I was not up to it yesterday. So i did call her this afternoon to check on her to see how she was doing. I feel that sometimes i give her the feeling that i dont care much about her and other times i am sure she knows that i am still wrapped around her finger. All these years i operated out of guilt and even now i feel that, albeit not as much. Last night i did tell myself that i cannot second guess my decision.
Lil anxious as to how the talk will go tonight. All i know is that at the first sign of trouble, i'll suggest that she use the lawyer route.

[Redo]

Journaling...

So on thursday wife did call up the night to talk. I never felt that stressed out. It was like exams or job-interviews all over again...

But the convo was good. It never felt this relaxing in a while. I guess it was because both of us were ready to make concessions. She did make some. Even though she said that was her plan all along. Odd because she only came down after feeling the pressure after my lawyer shot back. We only talked about one topic, possession schedule. It seemed reasonable enough, although i did not like one or two pints in there.

So i thought that this weekend would be good. It did seem to end on a good note. But it seemed to have brought me down a bit. I guess because if we can talk that civil with each other as we did on thursday, why does she want to split up?.

Yesterday she tells me she wants to take daughter and visit her sister in VA for july-4th. I was not sure why she was telling me this. Then it struck, she was telling me because that is how it is in the decree. But in a way she was looking for my agreeing. I did tell her that if was looking for my approval, then she had it. I was not sure about that whole convo. Was she looking for my approval? why?. She always felt that i was controlling her. But odd thing is that if i said 'no' that would have definitely upset her. Honestly i dont want my daughter near her sister. She really talked crap with me on the phone when i called her up in jan to see if she could talk to my wife. My mistake first to having talked to her....
But i guess i should not do that. My wife has the right to do what she pleases...

Hate this idiotic feeling of anger mixed with sadness and topped off with despair...