So... Today was a landmark day/event in my sitch. This will be a long update. I really would appreciate whoever sticks around to read it all. It is somewhat comical... but mostly horrific.
Bottom line? I am done. Barring a miracle, my marriage is over.
Denver, first off, all is not lost, necessarily.
I read it all. I did laugh...fwiw...( cough cough) ahem...
The text conversation and phone conversation UNTIL the end, pretty much was batshit stuff and you know it. You may have been calm on the phone but the problem was that you were ON the phone at all...you know this already of course... [color:#FF0000] Here's the deal...I'll post about the end of the convo but I'm concerned about your repeated statements that you would file b/c you "have no choice" AND you must if you are "self respecting". Sort of paints you into a corner. In a way, how can you NOT file, something?
Are there legal seps there? Can you file a warning letter or something less than div? AND don't forget, here, only 1/3 of divorces filed are ever finalized... The bad news is, that sometimes I think she has you by the ba!!s and NOT
in an attractive way. That can help a situation when you are compensating
and doing 180s but at some point it has to equalize out. She KNOWS she's abusing you...and she continues...enough already.
Sorry but it's just my first impression. YES I know you were a horrible evil troll to her
and she was the perfect wife, always, (here's a tiny dose of reality-
having a batshit son isn't easy, and it's NOT attractive to a lot of men, nor are there many who want the chance to father HIM.
THIS she will learn soon, if she doesn't already know it..)...
She has baggage most men won't deal with unless she's the hottest babe around AND OR has some serious money. AND Or unless they're losers. I dated a bit when h was gone for 2 years and have to say I was quickly guarded with younger men who seemed to want "a cougar with money" (God, I hope that doesn't sound as weird reading it as it is to write it)
But as the w of a doctor and a L myself, I was surprised at how many blatant users are out there. Young men looking for a mommy figure or a place to live with benefits. Not some great love or even great sex (no, I didn't but I have friends who did) and so, I just don't think reality and time on her own, is bad for your cause. UNLESS YOU KEEP FIGHTING...
[/color] Call it intuition or whatever you like, but I had a nagging feeling last night that W was with OM. I broke a cardinal rule and did a drive by of her house. Denver, Denver, Denver....you big goof ball...I'm not even going to comment about ^^^^that... b/c that's how goofy this ^^^ stuff is.
I walked past him and went straight up the stairs to W's bedroom door. It was locked. Let's hope she doesn't file charges...tell me your name is on the deed???
Fortunately, it was very easy to unlock from the outside. It took me literally 3 seconds. Ahhhh nooooo..... Sorry YOUR HONOR,- NOT GUILTY B/C DENVER WAS CRAZY...
I realized that I hadn't checked the toilet room. You know that 4' x 4' room where you go to take a cr*p. I checked the door and it was locked. Again, easy as pie to open. AND there he was... OM sitting on the toilet, underwear down at his ankles in the dark. YOUR HONOR...NOT GUILTY--DENVER had to go to the bathroom...and didn't know it was occupied...
Me: 'Man, you are destroying a marriage, a family... why don't you be a man and do what is right?'
OM: 'I know, I know, I'm sorry. I will leave right now'
Me: 'No, I don't give a sh!t if you leave. But why don't you be a man about all of this? You may think that you are in love with my wife, but she is still my wife. And do you know what you are doing to that little boy in the other room?' Just to chime in for the fun of it, you DO know this ^^^ doesn't even make sense, right? I mean logically, it's batshit. You want him out, but then you say you don't give a sh44 and want him to "man up"-- whatever that means to guys on the toilet...
OM: 'I know. I will.'
Me: 'You will what? How old are you man, 19? [b] Do what's right.'[/b]
OM: 'I will starting now. I promise.'
I walked away at the point. .. I drove SS to my house. I sent W a text message as soon as we got there. Nooooooooo
...blah blah blah blah blah back and forth ANGER ANGER ANGER (STOMPING FEET
HERE BELOW are the gems among the rocks...
W: "I told you that I need space and time to figure things out. Don't you understand that?" translation...I want a way out of this lose lose conversation...but I'm too proud and angry to back down, and have no tools for handling those issues.
Me: "I understand space and time. And W, I'd give you all of the time in the world to figure it out."
W: "Oh, but not if I date other people?!"
Me: "No, that is where my boundary is. I am not okay with that. I will not live in an open marriage. I do not think that you need to date OP to sort through things. It's been 6 months and I haven't." This sounds like a negotiation. Did she KNOW these terms?
W: "So what are you asking me to do?"
Me: "I'm not asking you for anything. I don't want anything from you. I'm not trying to convince you of anything and I'm not trying to get you to do anything. I am moving on with my life. I don't want anything from you at this point. I'm shutting the door on our marriage."
----------YIKES...SHE JUST ASKED YOU WHAT SHE COULD DO....AND YOU SAID NOTHING, AS YOU ARE "SHUTTING THE DOOR"...(sigh)
W: "I always wanted to be loved by you. And now you want to give that to me and it p!sses me off. After all of the years that I tried, it p!ssed me off that it has taken this to get you to want that."
W: "And I still don't believe it. I think that if I hadn't left you and someone else hadn't caught my attention that you'd still be sleeping on the couch and getting upset with me everytime I did any little thing that you don't approve of.' SHE'S DARING YOU TO KEEP TREATING HER RIGHT AND PROVE YOU'RE FOR REAL...BUT she's also wanting to cake eat...and abuse you some more.
Me: "No, that would not happen again. I have learned too much" W: "CAn't you see why I'm afraid?"
WANTS REASSURANCE FROM YOU...HAS SHIFTED THE WHOLE CONVERSATION TO HER TERMS & WHAT SHE WANTS FROM YOU...this used to be what you wanted...right?
Me: "yes. I understand completely why you are afraid."
Me: "I'm not mad. I'm sad. I'm sad that this is the end of our M."
OF COURSE YOU ARE ANGRY...YOUR PRIDE/EGO WAS HURT, AND SO, YOU ARE ENDING THE Marriage... YOU ACTED/TEXTED WITHOUT THINKING. YOU REACTED...bummer.
EVEN THOUGH SHE IS SAYING 'WHAT CAN I DO'? AND 'DON'T YOU SEE WHY I AM AFRAID?"
But in fairness Denver,
you DO have the right to draw your line in the sand.
We all have them and sometimes we don't know where they are until they've been crossed.
We have to look within and shelve the ego and pride and honestly assess whether we can forgive something or even just handle it. (As an example If my h were ever in an A with a sister of mine for instance, I'd drop the m. That's something I could not deal with -unless he had a brain tumor, ya know?)...
So you have to ask yourself, "Can I live with THIS behavior even if it is over? (Is it over??) Is this something I can forgive and forget?" And if the answer is "no", (I don't think this is anti DBing but it might be but here it goes...)
if the answer is no, then maybe we owe it to ourselves AND our spouses, to let them go.
If we know we cannot forgive something, then having a restored happy m, isn't going to ever happen. What's the point then?
Maybe if there are young kids and you don't mind a platonic sham marriage...and some can pull it off.
But otherwise, IF we're going to make them miserable holding it over their head forever or every time we fight throwing it into their faces, and we know this...And we'll always get that sick to the stomach feeling when they're "working late" or get a text...and we won't "work on it"
b/c it's simply something we know we lack in our genes to cope with, THEN YES, it's over... W: "And if I just take space and don't see anyone else?"
She's negotiating/asking you for the terms of the R...
Me: "Um, I don't know. I suppose that if you came to me and said that, I would have something to think about. But again, I'm not asking you for anything. As far as I'm concerned, I am moving on." You better have meant that b/c if you didn't, then you just shut a door she had opened...She was thinking about offering you those terms or at least probing, and she would have had to swallow her pride to agree then and there...but YOU stopped it so she could not.
. I ended the convo. "well, I'm going to go. you are not saying anything."
IMO, just my gut, the translation here is -That's you telling her you want an apology and a promise and a new R, and then her not being able to comply...
W: "Okay. Bye."
Me: "Bye"
Obviously, today, You guys lacked good communication skills and that's putting it mildly. Couples need to be able to fight fair or walk away. These types of fights leave wounds that sometimes cannot heal. Was this typical of old behavior?
Too bad you continued to threaten and then she dared you to follow through and you insisted that you WILL folllow through and you explain you "have to" b/c you "have no choice" b/c she is making you do this... and the thing is Denver, a part of me agrees...meaning, you have painted yourself into a corner with the insistent threat/promise/declaration that it was over now.
SO my question is two fold.
First, is it over? I mean we know you love her, but seriously it might be over for you if this is something that just crossed the line too much for you.
If my h were with a 19 y/o, I'd have some ego issues but I'd also know that those "ego issues" are frickin REAL and they might not go away very easily
and if there are other problems too...I don't know if I could do that. I probably would need some serious space...
Like maybe I would file and then just let it drop...make no movement.
Here in this state, if you file and then do nothing for 6 months, it expires.
You could possibly try that.
File, then forget about it, and act as if and I mean ACT AS IF in the zero backsliding ways.
No more fighting, no more R talk or even overt effort...just you pleasantly moving on and staying involved in SS life, big time
He's your way back to her you know...
OR you somehow explain why you are not filing but you would have to do that in a way that doesn't make you look weak or indecisive or as if you were simply angry and trying to control her...
which you were/are...
But if you do nothing, then....idk...well, then what?
Can Denver say (about 39 times) he's "done" "moving on" and have her dare him to do it (about 53 times) and him insisting "This is it! She "crossed a line and it's over!" and then do nothing, without losing all his credibility?
Denver,
Your goal is not saving your marriage "at all costs"...isn't it having a restored marriage with healthy boundaries...?
I just pose those questions to you. [b]You are the only one who can answer them but do Answer them before you do anything.
Oh, and NO MORE of these furious conversations!! So much anger that even the end comments were almost not worth it...were they? [/b] I guess she was dishonest with you. But I'm not clear on what you were thinking she was doing all this time...being like you were?
But she wasn't...she wanted to date. She's not the type of woman (with that son), to be able to be alone for any real amount of time. She's the type of woman who needs a man around. A source of affection and fun to give her a break, in the ceaseless demands of son.
Is it b/c the "A" before, was a fait accompli when you found out way back when, whereas now, it's NOW and that's what you cannot abide by?
Correct? I get that. But healthy boundaries, and pride based punishments often have a fine line between them...So, you have a choice to make.
1. Can you file and push the pedal to the floor, get it over with & finally so move on with your life?
2. Can you file and then ignore it?
3. Can you do nothing?
4. Can you go back to her, and say "let's start over, from this day forward"?
Good luck
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
