Harrier

[25yearsmlc]

Harrier,

I read your thread and I'm struck by a few things.

For one, you guys sure talk a whole lot. What decisions have to be made so soon, that you must discuss them, ad nauseum, so often?

Your talks seem to go on and on until you exhaust yourselves emotionally and or, you finally make a poor and painful decision.

Can you stop and just try to chillax a bit? Just both of you back waaayyy off? Don't pick at the scab for awhile and maybe the bleeding will stop and healing will start and maybe even the scar won't be so big.

I feel as if you need to Stop reading into the least physicality she shows or doesn't show, or you think she's witholding and you say it's a "pattern" b/c she did it twice...yikes, no one looks good under a microscope.

I'm a woman and I don't always put the kind of thought into a kiss or affection I should (I guess) but you for sure put too much into it.
I know your w is a "mind doctor" but she's also a mom and a woman.

I might turn my head for 6 reasons UNrelated to how I'm feeling about h, like my make up or his breath or someone watching or where the planets are in alignment...
Also, I have not heard much about DBing from you. What are your 180s? And any GAL? The 180s might show your w you are truly capable of change, which I truly believe she does not believe you can do. Hence the need for a separation...and GAL might help you contain your emotions in front of her and stop some of the R talking.

Regardless, your mind reading is mostly negative and counterproductive and moreover, even if she "means something" by it at the time, it does not make it "true."

I re-read my journals from 5 years ago and aside from getting angry all over again, what I notice is that while I may have felt that way at the time I wrote whatever I wrote, it does not make it true.
And even when it was true, it was not an immutable fact. It can change.
Don't get bogged down in what she felt at some time in the past or might today, for you or OM or her life or the kids, etc. We have moods, events, hormones,fights, pressures, pre-occupations with other matters...

Since she's very communicative with you, I would not worry that she isn't telling you how she feels since obviously she does tell you. Fact is, she changes her mind as we all do. But she examines and expresses our every feeling without taking the time to step back and ask, "is this real and lasting?" And you seek out the temperature of the R hourly.

Also, Why all the second guessing about the comments she does make, the texts to your friend-you interpreted negatively whereas I saw it the opposite way, and the affection, etc? While I can understand your issues with OM this is kinda what you do with her, on everything related to you...like I said, no one looks great under a microscope (or High Def TV for that matter) IT's not that I think you are being self centered so much as that you are projecting so many of your fears onto her, it's not helping your situation.

Next, from where I sit, the mc is not sounding super helpful.

Maybe Try a DB coach instead of a MC who just re-hashes the same old, grievance list...?? There's a lot to be said for solution based therapy, not analysis of our childhood issues, secret fears, and yada yada when what really matters is which behaviors help our m, and which don't...
While it is hard, it's often not that complicated. Speaking of...what are your 180s?

The sabotaging issue of yours you are pondering, needs some attention. You skimmed over your WAH/MLC thing from last year, so I don't know what all that was about.

But I'm betting it was a big deal to her. Maybe it rocked her world. I don't know...but you have repeatedly initiated R talks when it seems best to avoid it, or you prolong them to your detriment, or push her into a choice she might not have made otherwise. And you seem to steer things in a way where you corner her. Suddenly you are separating? Suddenly YOU are moving out? What? Why are these choices being made at all, let alone by her, for you, with your apparent consent?

By the way, anyone else find it notable that her OM is a mentor to her, whereas you are the emotional one in the m right now?

Was that always the case? I have to wonder if there's something about the dynamics of your r that make a mentor attractive to her. NOT Defending an A of course....but I'm asking if your emotionalism in front of her at this time, is helping you get closer to your goals? There does seem to be a contrast in the dynamics of the two Rs.

Being too emotional in front of her probably does make her feel very uncomfortable. It may come off as weak. Don't misunderstand me, I get it. And in Retrovaille I was really moved by my h's tears. But they are rare in him. And if she's uncomfortable with tears, does that sound attractive to you? Can you shelve those tears so she doesn't see them? It'd be a 180.

IOW, You modify your behavior for brief chunks of time and at least you get a break emotionally. Frequently I think you'll find the mere resting, allows you to breathe and relax and takes the pressure off. And then you do another chunk of time, and then another. You'll backslide but you'll also have some good to great days. And those good times will start looking better and more appealing, and the fighting over old stuff and obsessing and self inflicted wounds will look as UNappealing as they should. Time passes and the modifications are changes you have made and gotten used to b/c they are now part of you. They are real.

Here's an idea that might work for you in some form b/c it worked weirdly well for us.

4-5 years back, right before my h was about to leave for Jack3's Last Frontier land (Jack, when I can contemplate your state without my "baggage," I recall clamming very fondly. You probably have enough extra to send some down my way, now that I think of it.)

Anyhow Harrier, we had 2-3 months before the big departure day, which I saw as the end of the m so it was also the Big D day as far as I was concerned. I was in great pain and could barely contain it, very preoccupied with my pain and anger and the injustice of it all. H ignored that as he "said" he did "not want a D", which infuriated me as I found it weird and cowardly, etc. I had made this very clear to H.

Anyhow, h had a conference in Palm Springs and wanted me and d's to go for a "mini-vacation". That seemed weird and fake to me & way too hard to pull off, and also felt like we were only making it easier on HIM to leave if we pretended all was well.

Somehow a divine spark lit an intelligent thought in my head and changed my mind. I don't know if my db coach suggested it or if God did or what.(Maybe all of them)

But Somehow I realized that rather than witholding the positives, I could allow/create them for my d's, and maybe for me/us b/c it was probably the last time we'd have a vacation together as a married couple. I thought "why not make it fun for the girls so they -esp the youngest then-would have some good memories of "our family".

I decided to shelve ALL my concerns/fears/anger/pain for the 4 day period. (I figured I could always be negative again later and I'm ashamed to say that thought actually comforted me)

I really prayed and concentrated about NOT harping, and not obsessing or worrying or fuming about his selfishness and abandoning us and betraying, and blah blah blah enough already...it's not as if i was unclear with h....HE KNEW HOW I FELT ON A DAILY BASIS FOR MONTHS...AND NOTHING HAD GOTTEN BETTER FOR MORE THAN FEW DAYS, NOTHIGN CHANGED HIS TRAJECTORY..

Beginning with the decision/commitment VOW to not initiate ANY R talk for at least those 4 days...I came up with a plan...Not sure how I did it, but I did.

So on the trip when I looked at him in the car or the hotel, for just those 4 days, I decided to lose ALL the anger for awhile, to shelve it.

I just would not let myself go there.I put a stop sign in my mind if I had to. Then, Instead, I either came up with a "neutral" or even a positive way of seeing things/him. LIke laughing at his jokes rather than judging his delivery (I teach comedy as an avocation, so it's not as horrible as it sounds, but still....geez it really is)

I marvelled at how intelligent he was, rather than seeing it as him being nerdy or going on a "professorial tour". I felt some pride/admiration in my choice of h, rather than irritation.

I saw him with loving eyes. It did not hurt, and since it was just temporary, It felt safe.

For those 4 days I had a glimpse of what forgiveness might look like.

It was mostly about letting go of the crappy past. No blaming anywhere. And it was also about putting a positive, or at least decent, spin on things instead of a negative one.

I truly enjoyed myself and so did the girls and h. We went horseback riding and I CHOSE to laugh hard and easily, we went climbing and skiing and we ALL had a truly good 4 days trip.

H responded pretty well after a day of no R talk and no searing into his face with my angry eyes, and he responded very well after 3 days.

YES-his ease and comfort made me worry that he was "getting away with something!! " b/c he'd still leave and he'd think that I'm fine with this, and he can desert us & he'd think all would be well and blah blah blah THEN I STOPPED THINKING LIKE THAT - FOR 4 DAYS..

and in that time, I saw what forgiveness would look like, and so did h.

So did our D's...in retrospect it was a turning point.



I would love you to shelve your concerns for one month. To take ALL R talk off the table.

I would love you to see your w and m as positively as possible and while jack has a point about the verification issues, what if you just shelved those concerns for that month?

If she cheats on you later on, your behavior won't have caused it. You could get a glimpse of what life would be like if you let go of your fears and pain, however briefly.