Ok.... So last night was interesting. It was kinda dropping the rope. It also kinda wasn't. I had a lot of fun, but I know I don't have 2x4's heading my way, but entire lumber trucks. So I apologize to you guys in advance. On the other hand maybe we found something we can both live with.
I don't know what you expect us to say. We're not your parents, or the marriage police. We're here to help each other work a specific solution based approach to creating & saving healthy marriages.
If you sheepishly write posts that are deliberately vague, & hint at "being in trouble", it's just impossible to advise.
And why apologize to us? We're not the ones affected by your choices.
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
Ok.... So last night was interesting. It was kinda dropping the rope. It also kinda wasn't. I had a lot of fun, but I know I don't have 2x4's heading my way, but entire lumber trucks. So I apologize to you guys in advance. On the other hand maybe we found something we can both live with.
For what it is worth, cut yourself some slack. We are all human beings (including our spouses) which means we don't alway act perfect all the time.
I know I have had episodes of backsliding and taking offense at things my wife has said that were harmless. I have also on occasion found myself doing a "nice guy" thing every now and then. (Boy when I spot it later, I really feel bad about it as I know that was a big part of who I never want to be again.)
As 25 says, we are not your parents nor the marriage police (+1 25 and lots of great advice you have given him).
As to finding something that works for the two of you, GREAT as long as it really WORKS for the two of you and as long as you are both happy with it.
Dr David Schnarch in the PM says that marriage is hard work and that it stretches us and that each couple is unique.
Even if you think you have found happiness, you are still probably in for more roller coaster rides. My SSM was declared "cured" by our sex therapist over a year ago, but my wife and I still have moments of frustration, but luckly not very often and not to the degree of intensity that they once were. I feel so close to my wife (most of the time) that I find it hard to believe that I really was going to divorce her unless things changed.
Good luck. Make sure that you post updates every now and then (especially if they are theaputic) and celebrate those things that work.
>43 years of marriage--My wife and I are now closer than we have been in decades. I believe that my SSM is over.
I made the post I made because I myself have not even begun to make sense of what happened.
Long story short we both went drinking and for the first time she said she'd be willing to explore WITH me. So we went to a strip club Together and actually had a lot of fun. We ml afterwards, and the next day things were pretty good. Right now we feel very close to each other. I never expected that to happen in a million years.
What does this all mean? I don't know?! Am I playing with fire, undoubtedly. As you all know I blog a lot. Even then it has taken me all my strength to blog this.
I'm just so confused, most of all I feel like a hypocrite. Specially since I'm actually happy with everything that has happened in the last 48 hrs.
Ultimately it feels like I got off the last roller coaster, and got on one with way taller highs, and potentially even deeper lows.
I think ultimately I have given up on having a normal M, and decided to see where the ride takes me.
Like you guys said the previous approach was taking me nowhere, at least I am having fun with my W again. Yes I have considered all the ways this could go horribly wrong, but heh things were going to hell anyway. At least we had a good time TOGETHER.
I'll go first. You're happy not because your R is getting better. You're happy because you're like a junkie getting a fix. You've compromised your own ethics and beliefs for your wife's just so you can get some kind of positive reaction from her.
Love does not equal sex. Sex is an expression of love. If your W wants to do her thing with as many partners as she wants, that's her deal. What about you?
In the end, the idea of her having sex with other people, even with you there, is going to make you paranoid. And what happens if something were to happen where you couldn't have sex with her anymore? She'd drop you like a bad habit.
Oh and not to mention the STDs you could be getting from her.
M-43 W-40 2D - 9 and 5
Emotion, yet peace. Ignorance, yet knowledge. Passion, yet serenity. Chaos, yet harmony. Death, yet a new life.
(1) that you talk to you IC before you leave for your new posting and get some advice from your IC.
(2) you and your wife really should talk to a sex theapist in the not too distant future.
(3) talk to you wife and see if the two of you can figure out what happened and why it brought you together. Does she have jealousy issues that made her want to ML to you? Did she realize that she wants you and other women find you attractive? Did she need the stimulation of another woman to be arroused to the point that she could ML to you, her husband? While ML did she fantasize about the other woman? Did she find you in taking her to a strip club as the "dangerous Alpha-male" she has been looking for? The list goes on, and keep what you learn to yourself.
Now, personally, if your wife is having an MLC, and is potentially confused about her sexual orientation, a strip club is probably a pretty "tame" alternative to all that could have happened, especiallly if everyone kept their pants on and you know what remained in your pants at the strip club.
However, I suspect that your wife was both testing you and herself. I also suspect that what she learned about you and about herself. What she learned may come back to haunt you at some point in the future.
Having said all that I will go back to something someone else said and that is ML with your wife is a way to physically and emotionally connect to her. I hope your wife doesn't need the "rush" of trying taboo things as that can become a very self destructive and adictive approach to life.
Good luck to you. I am happy that you and your wife are ML. This has to be one of the most unusual 180's ever reported on the website. I hope you both find happiness.
But in the mean time, make sure that you don't get her pregnant!
Keep up with you GAL, depending on what you learn from you wife, firugre out ways for her to get the excitment she seems to want, but in a way that is safe and will not harm either of you physically, emotionally, or professionally.
I think you are in for one even wilder ride. Be very careful. Good luck.
>43 years of marriage--My wife and I are now closer than we have been in decades. I believe that my SSM is over.
...I think ultimately I have given up on having a normal M, and decided to see where the ride takes me.....
I am not sure anyone has a 1950's sitcom marriage, if that is what you meant.
I also hope that you ultimately get a marriage that will provide both you and your wife with the support you each need and with a safe environment where children can grow up safe and in a nurturing, caring environment.
I think that most marriages, especially the ones that seem to be discussed on this website are anything but "normal." And yet I would wager that there are some very good marriages, especially from the group that have faced divorce and rebuilt their relationship.
My limited experience with strip clubs is that the ones I have been at are sort of more R-rated than dens of wild prostitution. That doesn't mean that there can't be really bad things happening in some of the clubs, but it also means that there is a lot more illusion that substance. I would think that a strip club is probably safer and tamer than a swinger club, massage parlor or a lot of other places.
Don't give up on you dream/hope for a "normal" marriage or at least one with mutual respect, support an love between you and your wife.
Again, if you and you wife could spend some time with a good sex therapist, the therapist could probably help the two of you figure out what happened and how the two of you (or your wife) could experience the same emotional rush in the privacy of your own home either through role playing, watching certain kinds of videos, or some other way that would be more socially accepted.
You are on the verge of getting too far out there to post things on the internet. While there is a degree an anonimousness on the internet, some things are just too risky to post. So be very careful what you post from here on out.
Again. Good luck. I wish you the best.
>43 years of marriage--My wife and I are now closer than we have been in decades. I believe that my SSM is over.
I don't have a crystal ball. But my guess, and that's all it is,
is that this "cheating WITH you there", MIGHT delay but will ultimately trigger, the eventual break up of your m.
Enjoy your fantasy while it lasts. I hope I am wrong, despite how I feel about "open marriages" -
(actually I just don't see the point of open marriages, b/c if there's no commitment why bother pretending there is one?)
But please don't check off "Div Busting" as something you actually tried, ok? It's not fair to the program, b/c you never completed more than a weekend of behavior modifications, at best.
But regardless, good luck
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
I had a chance to sleep on some of the comments to this thread and found myself confused, but wanting to comment.
It might be because I am old, haven’t been to a strip club in a while or I have an unusual definition of “cheating” and “sex.” I have two adult children, who are good responsible adults. I have seen them and their friends filled with hormones doing silly things, but they all still turned out to be good responsible people.
From what I read, GB and his wife went to a strip club, then went home and ML to each other.
Not sure if GB’s wife at the strip club enjoyed being a voyeur, being an exhibitionist, being an object of attention among the male patrons and female workers, became jealous when someone else teased her husband, enjoyed the forbidden aspects of flirting and rubbing up against another woman, or enjoyed being in the company of her “dangerous Alpha-male husband. Not enough information to know what was running through GB’s wife’s mind.
Also I doubt that there was any genital to genital, oral/genital contact at the strip club. I also doubt that there was any direct skin to genital contact at the club (but I could be wrong and have been in the past).
I guess that I am liberal (libertine) enough and old enough to think that there is a thick grey line when it comes to titillation. I am also a little surprised how GB’s experience was characterized as cheating and having sex with a stranger (which is why I am posting this). I am sure it is not the kind of thing that GB would want to relate to his grandchildren in 40 years, but not horrific in my mind.
Specifically….
GB….”we both went drinking and for the first time she said she'd be willing to explore WITH me. So we went to a strip club together and actually had a lot of fun. We ml afterwards, and the next day things were pretty good.”
MrBond…”If your W wants to do her thing with as many partners as she wants, that's her deal. What about you? …In the end, the idea of her having sex with other people, even with you there, is going to make you paranoid.”
25…”this "cheating WITH you there", MIGHT delay but will ultimately trigger, the eventual break up of your m.”
To me, cheating in a marriage is not a “black and white” hard line unless you pass certain points (emotional attachment, genital/genital sex or oral/genital sex)and even then their might be some (very few) extenuating circumstances.
I also feel that the path to “adultery” is a slippery slope that becomes easier to justify once you start taking little steps in that direction. That is perhaps my biggest concern with GB’s situation is that he and his wife have started down a slippery slope. If this is why the reactions were so strong, then I understand.
The strip clubs I have frequented a few times in the past seem to involve a lot more viewing naked women, flirting /talking with scantily clad women than dens of iniquity were hard core sex takes place. There are strip clubs where JH’s BJ’s and intercourse occur, but I think they are the exception rather than the rule and something that I was never aware of. There are others on this forum who have a lot more knowledge and experience with this topic than I do, so I may be naive in my beliefs and will defer to others more knowlegable.
More common (in my opinion) are expensive tease-sessions by women who are carefully emptying a man’s wallet or trying to kill time until a regular client arrives. Sometimes the women will rub themselves against their customer to the point of their customer’s climax, but more often they are there to tease, talk or flirt.
Considering the kind of “dirty dancing” common in high schools and colleges, the lap dances or couch dances (a form of “dry humping” with the exception of money changing hands) isn’t all that different from what happens most weekends at school dances.
Now unless I am really wrong in my understanding of strip clubs and modern culture, I don’t see GB and his wife’s strip club adventure as being real supportive to their marriage, but I also don’t see it as initiating adultery, having sex with strangers, etc.
I do see it as MrBond has said getting an addictive emotional fix (probably more for the wife than GB). I also see it as 25 has said as being the start of a slippery slope that could ultimately break up GB’s marriage (GB & his wife really need to figure out what his wife experienced and how to deal with such emotions by her in the future – which is why I think counseling is very important).
Am I missing something?
Today sign me confused and naive
>43 years of marriage--My wife and I are now closer than we have been in decades. I believe that my SSM is over.
The strip club thing is just a small part of the story. If you go back, you'll see how his W wants to have multiple sexual partners. So when he said that he's happy they were able to explore together, well, what happens when she gets emotionally attached to one of the partners? Not to mention the risk of STDs.
GB90 wanted to have his W stop this behavior at first, but now is willing to compromise that just to have her in his life. If' that's the case, then he's not being true to himself and is missing out on how great an intimate marriage with a devoted partner can truly be. His W is the one who wants to sow her oats. I just don't know how long he could watch her do it without completely destroying his own self-esteem.
M-43 W-40 2D - 9 and 5
Emotion, yet peace. Ignorance, yet knowledge. Passion, yet serenity. Chaos, yet harmony. Death, yet a new life.
