I did NOT get the details out of her email that you did. Obviously YOU know better than me but please explain...better yet, explain to her what I missed, which is that it reduces your kid time by half.
I wish you had said, "W, thanks for the input. However, I calculated that this reduces my time by half, to just 15%, and that is just too little time for me to be with our children...I'm sure you can understand why this isnt' alright with me. How can we make arrangements more in line with what we had agreed to? I promise to try to be flexible, but I need my time with the kids, and we need to stand by our agreements, imo. Thanks for working with me on this. I know we both want what's best for them, and all concerned. Again, thanks."
I don't think it's too late. Say you reconsidered, (if you want.) How can this hurt? What do you have to lose?
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
I did NOT get the details out of her email that you did. Obviously YOU know better than me but please explain...better yet, explain to her what I missed, which is that it reduces your kid time by half.
I wish you had said, "W, thanks for the input. However, I calculated that this reduces my time by half, to just 15%, and that is just too little time for me to be with our children...I'm sure you can understand why this isnt' alright with me. How can we make arrangements more in line with what we had agreed to? I promise to try to be flexible, but I need my time with the kids, and we need to stand by our agreements, imo. Thanks for working with me on this. I know we both want what's best for them, and all concerned. Again, thanks."
I don't think it's too late. Say you reconsidered, (if you want.) How can this hurt? What do you have to lose?
BINGO. ^^^
Kaffe, you are going to REGRET being passive on this issue. Not too late to fight for what's right here.
I spent yesterday thinking about how I would proceed. By the evening, I had concluded that I was going to get a court order. Not something I wanted to do, but for the kids (for me) something that obviously needed to happen.
In the mean time, my dad had a visit with me in the evening and I told him my intentions. He went through a list of reasons why he felt that in my position (physical and financial) it would be an impossible road to travel (50% custody). It was a good conversation in all fairness. I did not agree with him, but I listened to another perspective.
Here's the reason why I sent the response to my W:
My M troubles, not withstanding other external influences, boils down to struggle for control. And I've been told numerous times that I cannot control her. I KNOW I cannot control her. Even my response could be seen as a passive / aggressive attempt to control her. Going to the courts is an attempt to control her. Doing NOTHING is an attempt to control her.
At least... that is the case if what I do is tagged with expectations that she will see things "my way". Honestly? I do not care if she sees things my way.
My feelings throughout the past 373 days has been that my W is trying to control ME. I am done with that. I have been done with that for the past five months and have been spent trying to gain control back in MY life. The things that I CAN control.
My W has stated many times how I'm "spying" on her. That how she lives her life, spends her money, people she sees, is none of my business. ie. That I cannot control her. In the mean time, my W has asked me numerous questions over the months and year that are information gathering or commented on externally gathered information. My W's actions have been controlling in many ways, too numerous to mention in this post. And it appears that the last resort for my W is to push my buttons and attempt to "gain" from me is by using access to the kids. To which, in the past, I have always reacted in some way, shape, or form. Something I will no longer do.
So again, my response to my W is to ask one more time, if she feels that is the best for the kids (my reduced time with the kids). Adding that if she felt that was the best for the kids, then "I would do what she wanted", was actually wrong. I should have just left it as asking her if she truly felt that was the best for the kids. Regardless, it was sent and I'm entitled to change my mind.
I woke up this morning with a renewed resolve to do what's best for the kids. This is not about "what I want". This is about what's right for the kids. 15% access is NOT right for the kids.
Kid focus means the entire conversation MUST be made from the perspective of the kids:
"I calculated that this reduces MY KIDS ACCESS to their father by half"
"understand why this isnt' alright for THEM"
"flexible, but our kids NEED more time with their dad"
I need to get going to work soon so don't have time to work through this right now. What I will likely do before I leave is send another email to my W asking again if she feels this is best for the kids.
What I can do over the rest of this week is to investigate and set in motion a court order for more appropriate access for the kids, within reason to our current living arrangements and availability.
"I just wanted to ask again if you feel that the kids having 15% time access with me is best for them.
Personally, from everything that I understand from "for the sake of the children" and other resources, the kids need to spend as much time as possible, balanced between both parents in order to have the least negative affect on them.
Please explain to me why you feel your current position around how often the kids get to see me is good for them.
Not to quibble KD, b/c I know you're going thru some #$%&^, but why not just say what YOU think? And give her something to live UP to, rather than implicity suggesting she's selfish or wrong (which is what your question is implying)? "I know we both want what's best for the kids...to me, 15% just isn't best for them and I KNOW it's not alright with me. I'm not being a jerk when I say I want to try to stay on track with something closer to what we agreed to..." Don't ask her to defend her position. IT corners her and she gets defensive and you ARE talking about some behaviors that sound tit for tat. I swear KD, asking "why are you x?" Or "How can you say...?" are questions my DB coach said are ?s designed to trigger Defensiveness in the recipient. So avoid questions like those. Make sense? Also, absolutely try to assume the best of motives in your spouse. It's crucial for communications and interactions...it SO helps them to see their actions in a clearer light....sometimes...
NO, I AM NOT SAYING ALL OF THIS IS YOU BEING COMPETITIVE...I'm saying the WORDING could simpy focus on the kids and your opinion/feelings. No asking her to defend herself...just stating your position and leaving it at that.
I am also assuming you will go to court for this, right? Be ready. Sounds as if you'll prevail, based on your commentary here.
But back to my 1st point in the earlier post, I didn't see how it lessened your time that much.
Assume the best of motives on her end ( TO HER FACE AT LEAST...THIS GIVES HER SOMETHING TO LIVE UP TO, MAKES YOU LOOK BETTER, MIGHT ACTUALLY INFLUENCE HER AND KEEPS THE CONVERSATION ON TOPIC, WHICH IS ABOUT WHAT REALLY IS BEST FOR THE KIDS...)
And it's absolutely the route to go. Imply nothing nefarious or selfish in her motives.
With that in mind, can you explain to ME why she might want this change anyhow?
It'll show you can see her POV, to me at least. And I'll get what she's saying, which I don't yet.
hang in there--don't hate KD. It only hurts you and the kids
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
Let me just say that for me, it's "baby steps." I'm (re)learning to be assertive, but not overbearing. Stating clearly my wants and needs, without denying the wants or needs of others. Because in the end, "for the better good" (of others, or "the whole"), what I want or need is irrelevant.
In this case, what I want or need regarding the kids is irrelevant to the NEEDS of the children. My own personal interpretation of the developmental needs of the kids is my own and others could interpret it other ways. If the kids' needs are best met by seeing me every second weekend only, then that is what I want. I do not WANT to have them 50% of the time if that is not what is best for them.
I understand your view on the wording of my email. It may have appeared overt. That was not my intention. I was trying to be clear and concise and obviously that can appear to be seen as challenging my W's opinion. I really want to get confirmation of what she believes is in the best interest of the children. In the same way that I disagreed with my dad, but respected his opinion and input and was happy to have a fresh insight.
I could have worded my email differently and will continue to work on that. I need to be able to see what I'm saying from a different perspective. In this case, from the perspective of my audience.
As far as telling my W my feelings... Seriously... I did that 10 months ago, 6 months ago, 3 months ago... that didn't get me anywhere. I stopped doing what wasn't working. My feelings are irrelevant to her. My wants are irrelevant to her. Understand, I'm not looking for the sympathy vote here. I am stating fact. In the sense that:
Fact - I told my W I wanted to spend time with the family last year. My W stated in no uncertain terms that if I attempted to spend time with them, they would do something else so that I could not.
Fact - I told my W that I did not want to separate. My W did not ask me to move back in and work things out.
Fact - I indicated that I felt the kids and myself needed counseling. My W stated that the kids are resilient do not need counseling.
Fact - My W set up and attended three MC sessions with me. On the third session, my W admitted that she was not attending to work on the M.
Fact - I indicated that I wanted to spend more time with the children. Assertively / aggressively in some instances. To which my W indicated that if I attempted to have more time with the kids through S and D, she would see me in court.
If I remove all my emotions out of the equations, the above are the facts. My wants are irrelevant. All of the above pressuring me into wanting D. Wanting to just get on with my life and hopefully seeing my kids from time to time. Being grateful that my W lets me see the kids as often as possible, never mind at all. (Yes... there is a bit of emotion in there... but it's not hate... I don't feel hate towards her any more...)
As far as showing insight into my W, that is a double edged sword. If I answer what I believe, then I am told that I am trying to read her mind. Read meaning into something where there might not be. What appears to be truth or fact is, the moment I believe I have some understanding of what my W wants from me, the target moves (intentionally or unintentionally? I do not know. Not for me to guess at.) The proper thing to do is make no assumptions. Assume no evil (from the perspective of my wife) which I am good at and still working to be better at. And at the same time assuming no good will, either.
I cannot afford to be naive. Being naive lead to me potentially walking away from everything that I had given myself wholly to, to the best of my ability at the time. Family, financial security (assumed shared, as I was stay at home parent for the most, while all earning profit went right back into the household), my assumed future... etc...
Having said that, I could understand the question is "why would my W believe that sharing the kids more with me is in their best interest as I have her (my W's) interests at the foreground."
I honestly cannot answer that question. I do not have any clarity of what she wants. I do not understand what she wants. At least, no deeper than what she has said to me and what she has shown me. I could guess... I don't want to, anymore... that has not served me well in the past.
The best answer to that, the best answer period is, I can only be the best dad possible with the kids, during the time that I have them.
I need to go now, but will review your post above and any further posts when I get back.
I appologize, there's a lot here. I'm posting the whole response from my W. Most of it I was completely unaware of. But asking "where she's coming from" or "what her position is" might come out in this email. It sounds "reasonable" enough, I suppose:
"What I said, or meant to say, is I don't think it's fair that you get them every weekend and I have them during the week only. Between Brownies, boxing, working, homework, showers, bedtime routines, etc. I don't have any down time with them. I want them this weekend, and you can have them for the following two. It's enabling gf's son's confirmation on Sunday and my Grandpa comes home on Sunday (he is very ill by the way - just had heart surgery) and we are going to go and spend Monday with him. I am in the (far away location) next weekend on business, and the following weekend I have (related business) meetings Friday and Saturday. That would mean I don't have them for any weekend time for 4 weekends in a row. I said if you want to spend time with them during the week, then feel free to come and pick them up for the evening.
D8 asked me yesterday if she gets to spend this weekend with me. I said "I think so" and she was happy about that. D13 has her friend's Birthday party on Friday night. D8 asked if she could make plans with her friend on Friday - have her over for a sleepover or something.
D13 and you have some major issues to work on. I talked to her on Monday, and she told me that three times now you have told her you are going to disown her. (Well, she said two times you used the word 'disown' and this last time you used 'abandon'). Whether this is said (or texted) in anger, hurt or whatever, in my opinion, not a good thing to tell your child who already struggles with abandonment issues. I cannot fix this between you two. All I can do is encourage her to stay involved in your life. She is adamant that she will not stay overnight when she has to go to school the next day. She is clear that she still wants to spend time with you. She is also clear that she cannot have 3 friends there at a time ..... no more than 1. (If that's allowed by you).
The other thing, in keeping focused on the kids, is that when it's your weekend, sometimes things are going to come up in their lives that mean you will have to follow through on. Yesterday, I had a meeting at Brownies about D8 camping trip to (location) (June 17 - 19). There was a special Brownie Leader there talking about the camping trip. Canoeing, crafts, hiking, etc. Everyone was very excited. Then the Leader commented on the fact that it was Fathers Day that Sunday and D8 absolutely melted. She said there was no way she could go, that you would be sad if she went. I reassured her that you could pick up her up at (location) whenever you wanted on that Sunday (camp is over at noon, but they said parents could come earlier if it interfered with Fathers Day plans). She cried and cried until both I and a few other moms and leaders around her convinced her that you would not want her to miss this camping opportunity. Yesterday she came home with an invitation to a birthday party on June 4th in (location). (I think it's at some kind of pool). You would have her that weekend, so I don't know what to respond. Will you take her in for it? Let me know so I can RSVP. I haven't even asked D8 if she wants to go yet.
KD, she peed the bed last week, and came home from your place with a small rash on her face. These are totally signs of a kid who is under way, way too much stress. When she is with me she is grumpy, grouchy, loving, fun, funny, angry, sad, etc. She is showing me all the emotions of a kid who is not afraid to stomp all over my feelings in the moment. She tells me she would never do half of the things she does with me because she doesn't want you to be sad. She is 8 turning 9 and is far too worried about her Dad's well being. I think I should get her some counselling through my ADP plan. I think she's got lots going on in her head, lots of struggles with guilt and loyalty issues ... I don't ever want D8 to feel like she has to choose between us. We need to be sensitive to her and what she needs right now. And we will only know by her actions - she will never bad mouth or be honest with us about how she's feeling.
Unfortunately, I think you're right and that if push comes to shove, D13 is going to choose to be with me, but let's not forget a) who she is as a person (incredibly strong willed) b) where she's come from (abandoned by biodad), c) fiercely loyal to me, and d) a self-absorbed teenager right now. This too shall pass with time, and I think it's critical right now that you give her breathing room and let her be hostile .... it's what 13 year olds do best. Don't think I'm not getting it at home too .... yesterday she was an absolute witch to me. She was about 3 seconds away from losing her phone, all because she wanted to go out with (2 of her friends) for a walk and I told her no. I reminded her that she is still grounded until the end of grade 8, and that she was not going to be hanging out with her friends during the week. She blew a nut, threw at me the fact that FS16 can go out with his friends during the week, at which point I reminded her that FS16 was not smoking pot, and if he was, he wouldn't be going out either. That shut her up fast, and she dropped the attitude and quickly gave into the fact that I was not bending on this. She told me she was sorry and we carried on with our evening. (Of which she stayed home and painted her nails and read a book for school). The point of this is to tell you that it's not all a bed of roses with D13 for me either right now, but that it's critical that we don't give in to her every whim.
Lots to think about, lots to do. We need to stay focused on what's best for the kids right now ....... "
She wrote a great email. I did NOT know she never got them on weekends...Forget the % for now. I mean, if she said you could have them every single NIGHT from midnight to 8 am would you really count that as an increase in %? No, you'd say that doesn't really count since it's sleep time. So, imo, she has a completely legit point, and she made it in a very reasonable manner.
I think it's a great chance for you two to work together on something. Please realize that she has a point, and it's best for the kids to have some down time with mom (and the fact that it also benefits her, should be seen as a win win, not a disadvantage KD).
This is an opportunity for something positive to happen KD. Negotiate. Figure out if you can see them on some weekday night, like every Wednesday night for dinner, or spending the night. Not so much "tit for tat" but a way to break up the 5 day periods of time you have between visits, plus you benefit by having some free time to yourself on the weekends too.
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
+ I have talked to D13 in the past about how I would always be here for her. That I would never abandon her. I do remember mentioning something about how things can happen where a parent disappears from a child's life. I do not remember ever using the word disown. I suppose I may not have been clear. And I do not remember EVER saying that I would not be part of her life in any way, neither in anger nor frustration nor threat. I do remember telling her that she will live by her choices in context to her saying that she is "old enough to choose where I want to be."
+ D13's biodad may appear to have "abandoned" her. He was "removed" from her life due to a restraining order. Every visit he had with D13 was supervised by my W. Eventually, he stopped visiting and calling. He recently started calling again. I do not know the current status of his communication with D13.
+ I have since texted D13 this afternoon to let her know that W was concerned (and of course, that I was) about the supposed abandonment / disown feelings. I apologized and indicated that anything I would ever mean in that regard would be that I would NEVER abandon her (because I know she has abandonment issues). That I could not imagine that I would have ever said that... I joked, saying that she's stuck with me for life. She accepted my apology and then invited me to watch her spar tomorrow afternoon. I accepted the date. She used the word "implied" in the context of "You definitly inplyed that you would abandon me." I do not know if 13 year olds use that word...
+ In regards to D8, for the past 3 months, I have been very careful to be cheerful in her presence. I have had pleasant conversations with her, unless it was any usual negative behaviour. I know that she has told me in the past that she was worried that I am sad. I have been very careful to let her know that I am no longer sad. I have let her know that I miss them when I haven't seen them for a while.
+ Regarding D8's behaviour around me, she is nothing other than what I would consider a typical 8 year old with some challenges regarding dealing with her feelings around her parent's separation. I have told her that she is welcome to share her feelings with me if she wants to. This past weekend, she commented (in regards to D13 not staying) that she figured D13 was probably just being like her in wanting to avoid thoughts of the S. Typical and expected comments from a child living through a S and D.
+ In regards to peeing the bed. She has not done so any time that she has been with me. I'm not sure if that is a regular occurrence or just and accident. It sounds like only one time. Now if asked whether I thought that might be some indicator of stress, I would think it could be, but I would expect to see a pattern and re-occurrence before I'd point at it. So I'm not sure what to say about that. Although as a combined behaviour, I would say she is stressed. Is she only feeling "safe" to express those behaviours in from of my W? Idk...
+ In regard to a rash... ??? Maybe it was something she ate...?
Actually, weekends is a brand new arrangement due to my moving further away. Up until now, I would see them on some weekends, never on week days, unless I was picking them up from school or taking them to school (one of the original agreements for visits). It all depended on what W arranged. I would get the girls for a friday overnight or a saturday overnight or have one girl on one day a weekend and then the other girl on the next weekend for one day...
It was only about two months ago when I started having the girls Saturday afternoon until monday morning. And that was ONLY D8 and that happened I think twice.
So that 28% was hard won in the first place from something that was more like 10% or 15%. I am sure that most visits are documented somewhere in my journaling.
The weekends only was only a suggestion. It never happened. This weekend was the only weekend the girls were here with me and they were not here on Friday. I picked them up Saturday afternoon. "Weekends with flexibility" was the plan, considering that summer holidays are coming up and I might have them for a week at a time. But again, nothing has been established.
