Wife of 6-years is Divorcing Me ...Need Counsel II

[alamo76]

Sorry I misplaced some HTML codes -- my responses are also in the quoted text. Boo to our "editing" feature. It always says I've exceeded the time limit allowed to make changes.

[♪CS♪]

Be fair and calmly resolve this.

^^^ This.

It is for you and your W to decide what is appropriate for how things will be split.

The important thing is how you go about.

DON'T get defensive.

DON'T accuse.

LISTEN.

Present your point of view calmly and without emotion.

UNDERSTAND her position.

BE fair.

BE reasonable.

[25yearsmlc]

Pick your battles wisely.
Believe it or not, in most states, her leaving you is irrelevant to the cost share.

So, if you are going to argue things, why not focus on the cc debt and NOT the son? Just saying it looks lousy, and will be remembered forever, and frankly, I think the son's costs are a lot less than the other debts that are mounting. I cannot imagine splitting the costs of diapers being an insurmountable problem. And Alamo, arguing about the costs of the diapers and son, well it just sounds bad. IDK how else to say that. I understand she's gone back on her word and that bugs you. Maybe you can say, calmly, almost with curiousity, that you wanted to re-cap the "old" agreement and make sure you were not having an amnesia attack (or took some crazy pills that made you forget the agreed upon terms) but if you can almost make it funny, like "I could have sworn we had an agreement in which you would pay this X, and I would pay that Y. I am asking to make sure I didn't have an infarct in my brain, and I am not necessarily arguing it. Just want to make sure I heard what I thought I heard and so, this is a RE-NEGOTIATION, right?"

I am married to an MD. I don't recall if your w is in her residency now or still in med school. Either way, her school loans are huge and climbing. I pray all those debts are in HER name.

So, how'd you guys get through that time with her in school and you not working? (BTW, NO MED STUDENT HOLDS DOWN MORE THAN A PART TIME JOB...I'm not sure if you meant to imply that she was a slacker for only working part time while in school, but med school is incredibly time consuming. She's no slacker.)

I've witnessed the whole journey of becoming an MD, AND my h was first a DVM (veterinarian) and we were m for that too, and then I went to law school. I got to be there for all the "Fun" times AND we had 2 of our 3 children 8 weeks before med school began and in his 3rd year, we had our 2nd child. (The 3rd scrapper came years later).

I can say with an informed opinion, that By far, his med school/residency was the worst & most relentlessly demanding experience of the three. (If he ever says he wants to be a dentist, I'll strangle him )

Depending on the stage of training she's in, you know that when her income jumps, you can renegotiate the support payments. She won't get alimony from you unless you are a millionaire, and the CS you pay if she has more custody, will be based on your income. I'd be surprised if you don't get half OR MORE custody, given what her schedule will be like. In fact, I'm betting you could get custody of them more if you have regular nights OFF.

It just sounds as if you are letting emotions color this. Her decision to leave is not financially relevant in the eyes of the court, except possibly for the transportation costs for the son. Is she going out of state for her residency? Again, I am guessing at the stage of training she's in. Make sure you get a clause saying you want the son close by.

Do you understand why the person who gets primary custody of the child usually spends more, in unseen ways? I think you're so upset right now that you are not objective. I understand that. But it does not help your position.

While I don't want you to sign anything that hurts your interests down the road,
I do have 2 questions for you to bear in mind always...

What is your long term goal here? Will fighting about money now, help you towards your goal, or push you farther away from it?

[alamo76]

So, if you are going to argue things, why not focus on the cc debt and NOT the son? Just saying it looks lousy, and will be remembered forever, and frankly, I think the son's costs are a lot less than the other debts that are mounting.

I agree with that, 25. Despite my wife having primary care of our son right now, I can tell you for sure that she does not significantly spend more than I do on transportation (it's closer to 50:50). As I mentioned, it's just the principle, the way my wife is asking me to pay for things. I guess I never imagined that my wife -- the one who begged me to be communicative -- is behaving like the Alamo of yesteryear.

I don't recall if your w is in her residency now or still in med school. Either way, her school loans are huge and climbing. I pray all those debts are in HER name.

Yes, they're in her name. And she's currently on rotations, and one year away from residency.

So, how'd you guys get through that time with her in school and you not working? (BTW, NO MED STUDENT HOLDS DOWN MORE THAN A PART TIME JOB...I'm not sure if you meant to imply that she was a slacker for only working part time while in school, but med school is incredibly time consuming. She's no slacker.)

My wife had part-time jobs during her pre-med program in college. I had just moved here from Malaysia and had a hard time finding work in the small college town we were. When we moved here to CA in 2007, I have had 3 jobs including the current one. So there were two 6-7 month periods when I was unemployed. We made it with savings, CC and some of her loans (we made it a point not to max out on her loans each semester). The latter unemployment period was also supplemented with federal unemployment income.
Till this day I still think (and agree with you) that being a med-student, and the spouse of a med-student is one of the hardest of life's challenges. My wife has and continues to work her butt off to fulfill her dream, which brings me to...

Is she going out of state for her residency? Again, I am guessing at the stage of training she's in. Make sure you get a clause saying you want the son close by.

...I mentioned this a long time back -- Due to my wife's DO certification, she will LIKELY be moving out of state (mid-West or East Coast) this time next year. I could be legally keep her in CA, but with her wanting to be a doctor since she was a child and working her butt off, that could severely hinder/kill her chances of that, as well as any chances of us reconciling. She will hang this over my head for the rest our lives, and tell our son how I shut her carrier down every step of the way. The reason why I say this is I know how my wife holds grudges. She said the same thing about her parents and her family, and I see no reason (I see it in the way she talk to me or about me) to believe this is not the case now.

I told her awhile back that I will move to wherever she ends up, for our son.

It's just unfortunate that after all we've gone through together in this especially hard journey to where she is today (I increasingly took charge of many things at home whether I had work or not; she was below average in college due to late-diagnosed ADHD, so I frequently helped her study, write notes, draw; etc), she still tells me and everyone else that she was the only one who worked on our relationship, and laughs at any hand I had in helping her get through the hardest portions of getting in and being in med-school. I was a successful enough production engineer before I came to the States, and I moved to a small college town where she grew up(I asked her to move to other locations where I could find work and where she could still pursue her studies, but she refused) and couldn't find work aside from being a part-time waiter (I would work at Applebees or Sizzlers, but hey, I was not a permanent resident yet, so I worked under the radar at an Asian buffet), and when we moved to CA, she wanted to be close to her school in North Bay, whereas I told her that maybe we should look for a place someone in the middle, because the best chances of me finding work in my line of expertise was in South Bay, but nope, she refused. So the jobs I took up were and still are out of my norm (though I've been blessed to have excelled in this new direction).

And check this out, even with the possible divorce, I still will be moving out to where she is. I have to quit my awesome job now and find another one. Again. It feels like I'm still giving things up for her sake, and if another man comes along, he's just be basically riding my coattails. All because of my porn and lying.

Sorry, but thank you for letting me vent.

I appreciate you for continuously checking up on me, 25.

[25yearsmlc]

There are DO residencies in California. I know this. What specialty has she been interested in? My h changed his mind from infectious diseases to a surgical specialty. He's happy now and can work anywhere there's a large enough hospital.

I am not positive of what you should do with the pending relocation in a year but Maybe you need to assert yourself here to keep them in state. That way, your career stays in check, which helps you ALL- her, and your son, financially, and maybe even increases your self respect, or hers for you. IS your career working out for you now? What would a move do to that? Are there any places mutually beneficial? That would be the goal I'd say...obviously Asking her about that topic, ie where she's looking that also helps YOU professionally, ought to be a safe topic that makes you look good if there are options for you to succeed there.. And if it can still happen with you two separated, that's really amicable AND is A good basis for you to build on, if you don't let obstacles get in your way. (That's what L's are for!!)

DON'T FORGET...SHE WILL MOVE AGAIN THE FOLLOWING YEARS...After her med school she moves to where her internship is. That's one year of hands on generalized training. THEN she'll likely have another move to begin her residency (where she'll begin the specialized training). That's in another place for 2-5 years. (Sometimes the internship and residency happen to be offered in the same place, which is lucky). Also, this assumes she gets into the residency she wants. If there's an opening and she makes the cut.
Sometimes you have to wait your turn if you want a specialty thats full or you weren't deemed ready.

So, you can expect her to have to move TO the internship place, then a move TO the residency hospital, (unless she lucks into a hospital that combines the internship w/the residency), then a move AFTER the residency is complete, to a staff position as a staff physician. Got it? Possibly 3 moves in the next 5 years.

Yes I'd say you need to discuss this with the L b/c you may be setting yourself up for permanent under achievement in your career & sabotaging your future. Oh, and there's always the chance that she won't get picked for her first choice of specialty. She might wait around doing general medicine another year, OR she might change specialties...you willing to put your life on hold for all this time without taking care of your own life's goals? You can't. You have to take care of yourself.

Quite a balancing act. We managed to stay in one place for h's internship, & residency and then he was offered a staff position in the same hospital. Only 2 doctors we knew got that, including h.

Try hard to stay ambitious for your career. It's perhaps unfair, but men are judged a lot more by their work and income. It's an attraction thing going way back into time immemorial. I married my h partly b/c the boyfriend I had before h, was so laid back and h was refreshingly ambitious and hard working and focussed. It's a turn on. Being a workaholic isn't, but at the time all I saw was a hard working guy who planned great dates for us, dancing and picnicing and h planning the time we had together with intensity. I loved it.

I have seen some stay at home dads married to female doctors and it can work. But it takes a very secure man and very enlightened woman, to have that work. In your situation you must work for a variety of reasons, including your self respect and marital and financial security.

Finally, You should not make any choices based on your fears of her reaction. That's a fear based decision and that has to stop. Take charge of your life, starting with your interactions, and your career.

A man with some ambition is manly and attractive. See a L. See what options you have about keeping her and your son in state, b/c at the very least she needs to be GRATEFUL for your willingness to move-- and unless she sees that she's not "entitled" to that, I doubt it will hit her soon.

But you have another year of her rotations so there is some time...btw, the first year out of med school, the internship, was a low point in our m. H was working LONGER THAN EVER hours. I timed it one week, to be in excess of 90-96 hours, and that's not counting his studying at home. He also worked 48 days in a row without a day off. That wasn't a one time thing. He knocked off all 4 hubcaps of our car driving home b/c he'd fall asleep on the way home. That's 4 separate events...we're lucky he's alive.
(You sure you want this life??

So yes, Living close to the hospital is key. Isn't that a reason she wanted to live in North bay despite your job prospects being in the south bay? The commute has to be easier for her than you. Sorry but hey, this is coming from someone who has been in your shoes. IMO, When it comes to commuting time, the med person gets priority unless you somehow have worse hours, which is not likely, thank God.

I'll tell you if I could omit one year of my marriage, it would be that internship year. It stank. H was chronically tired, grouchy, critical, unhelpful at home, stressed, beaten down at times...In later years there were rotations like that, but never a whole year of it like that.

It's a crime that they do these tortured hours and schedules to our doctors. The DO program may be kinder or gentler, but I recall SO many osteopaths at the same training hospital as my h, so I doubt it.

Back to your M...What would she say about you, now? (Forget the money for awhile.) Refresh my memory and update us. What would her complaints be? And If a stranger asked her the scoop, what would she admit or say?

As for the money-- Alamo, if you are talking about debts that take less than 6 months to pay off, don't argue so much about it.

You want to project the image of an earnest hard working educated professional, trying to provide for his family; not a cheapskate from a 3rd world country living off our nation's bounty, who shirks his personal and professional duties & counts the # of diapers he paid for last week... Pick those battles wisely. If your only real complaint is that she revised the deal you two made, address THAT.

What have you "owned" as the role you had in the breakdown of the m? IOW, what would SHE think is different in you now, than before, IF ANYTHING?? Alamo, if she can't see any changes in you, then it's not going to work out for you. You gotta make that happen.

How are your 180s? And the GAL? These are things within your control.

[alamo76]

There are DO residencies in California. I know this. What specialty has she been interested in? My h changed his mind from infectious diseases to a surgical specialty. He's happy now and can work anywhere there's a large enough hospital.

Yes, that's true. My wife (either realistically or idealistically) is targeting only one or two hospitals here in CA (Santa Rosa and Arrowhead); she wants to do family practice w/ an OB-GYN emphasis. Her choices in hospitals might've changed now, though, so I don't know. Also, one of the reasons she would like to be in the mid-West/East Coast area is to be nearer to her family who are in Tennessee. Now that I'm out of the picture (in her mind), and her parents are back in, she thinks her family will be close enough come to the rescue if needed, especially for the needs of their grandson.

I am not positive of what you should do with the pending relocation in a year but Maybe you need to assert yourself here to keep them in state. That way, your career stays in check, which helps you ALL- her, and your son, financially, and maybe even increases your self respect, or hers for you. IS your career working out for you now? What would a move do to that? Are there any places mutually beneficial? That would be the goal I'd say...obviously Asking her about that topic, ie where she's looking that also helps YOU professionally, ought to be a safe topic that makes you look good if there are options for you to succeed there.. And if it can still happen with you two separated, that's really amicable AND is A good basis for you to build on, if you don't let obstacles get in your way. (That's what L's are for!!)

Even if she moves to Santa Rosa or Southern CA, I'd still have to move/switch jobs. Being close to our son is my priority, unless y'all see this as a highly unrealistic mentality on my part. All this, ultimately, really boils down to which hospital accepts her. We'll find out by the end of the year.

DON'T FORGET...SHE WILL MOVE AGAIN THE FOLLOWING YEARS...After her med school she moves to where her internship is. That's one year of hands on generalized training. THEN she'll likely have another move to begin her residency (where she'll begin the specialized training). That's in another place for 2-5 years. (Sometimes the internship and residency happen to be offered in the same place, which is lucky). Also, this assumes she gets into the residency she wants. If there's an opening and she makes the cut.
Sometimes you have to wait your turn if you want a specialty thats full or you weren't deemed ready.

So, you can expect her to have to move TO the internship place, then a move TO the residency hospital, (unless she lucks into a hospital that combines the internship w/the residency), then a move AFTER the residency is complete, to a staff position as a staff physician. Got it? Possibly 3 moves in the next 5 years.

We were committed to this lifestyle since the day we met and she described her aspirations. My wife wants to do medical missions to Asia/Middle East, so we were committed to up-and-leave when the time was right. So moving has been programmed into our blood. To date, I've already moved 7 times since 2004. My wife is so determined on being close to her school, we moved 3 times within Vallejo due to neighborhood safety concerns, even though Vallejo is in itself a high-crime rate town.

Try hard to stay ambitious for your career. It's perhaps unfair, but men are judged a lot more by their work and income. It's an attraction thing going way back into time immemorial. I married my h partly b/c the boyfriend I had before h, was so laid back and h was refreshingly ambitious and hard working and focussed. It's a turn on. Being a workaholic isn't, but at the time all I saw was a hard working guy who planned great dates for us, dancing and picnicing and h planning the time we had together with intensity. I loved it.

The boyfriend you mentioned -- that was me when my wife decided she was done. With porn, I worked only as means to an end, because my mind was somewhere else. I was good at what I did, but little to no aspirations or intensity. And that translated to our relationship too. Honestly, we both had issues that we brought that caused the downward spiral, but I realize my faults and weaknesses now. Since I made the decision to let go of porn (essentially a 180), my mind and soul is free to be more positive/optimistic things. I just feel more gung-ho, happier, extroverted and connected than ever before. That's not to say I'm emotionally and mentally free from my addiction; it follows me forever. But as the tools and techniques I use become more like routines, those temptations become less and less of a draw.

I have seen some stay at home dads married to female doctors and it can work. But it takes a very secure man and very enlightened woman, to have that work.

I think my wife thought she was (because I was -- I enjoy doing things, getting my hands dirty, cooking, caring for the baby, and have an eye for spotless cleaning :)), but like the caveman analogy, it's true that "bring home the bread" was still a factor.

Finally, You should not make any choices based on your fears of her reaction. That's a fear based decision and that has to stop. Take charge of your life, starting with your interactions, and your career.

So are you referring to fear for fear's sake (i.e. paranoia), or fear born from knowledge/experience (i.e. I've seen what pushes my wife's buttons by the way she's handled other people/situations)? I fall in the latter category.

A man with some ambition is manly and attractive. See a L. See what options you have about keeping her and your son in state, b/c at the very least she needs to be GRATEFUL for your willingness to move-- and unless she sees that she's not "entitled" to that, I doubt it will hit her soon.

When I first brought this up with my wife a few months back, she saw my pulling out the legal stops to the matter as aggressive, manipulative and exploitative, which she constantly likens to my lying, temper and deception during our marriage. I know I should do what is right for ME, but how can this help reconciling?

I'll tell you if I could omit one year of my marriage, it would be that internship year. It stank. H was chronically tired, grouchy, critical, unhelpful at home, stressed, beaten down at times...In later years there were rotations like that, but never a whole year of it like that.

I'm glad y'all made it through that!

Back to your M...What would she say about you, now? (Forget the money for awhile.) Refresh my memory and update us. What would her complaints be? And If a stranger asked her the scoop, what would she admit or say?

Honestly, after almost a year of disconnect, I really don't know. What I think right now is just pure speculation. Her complaints constantly change and evolve, like she's changing her story/reasons to continue with the divorce. When we were separated but still under one roof, if was easier to gauge the effectiveness of my 180s & GALS, and make the necessary tweaks. But now, it's daily yet really brief interactions. I've told many people this: the fact that porn and lying are such subjective problems, makes it extremely difficult for my wife who's left the house and the relationship to see my improvements, let alone a person who lives in the same house and still cares for you. Is Alamo really in control of his addiction, or is it a dry spell before it starts again?

[alamo76]

Be fair and calmly resolve this.

^^^ This.

It is for you and your W to decide what is appropriate for how things will be split.

The important thing is how you go about.

DON'T get defensive.

DON'T accuse.

LISTEN.

Present your point of view calmly and without emotion.

UNDERSTAND her position.

BE fair.

BE reasonable.

CS -- Sorry about the belated props, man. Even though I strongly empathize with her position, some part of me tells me that my wife needs realize that things, such as my actions/reactions, financial burdens, etc. are consequences of HER actions, you know? It's not my job to do that -- life does that. I can DB/DR and have awesome intentions, and be great to her, but if she chooses to continue to be negative or be unhappy, well...

For years, my wife told me that I need to be responsible for my actions (from my porn), well, I nowadays, I sure do not see her manning up to her decision to leave/separate/divorce.

That said, I still try to keep my 180s/GALs (that are true to myself) consistently going. I still try to be flexible with her. I still try to stay even-keeled. I still try to make it work.

UPDATE 4:12pm
Our son just woke up from him p.m. nap and I text her that she can come pick him up, and her lengthy response was "K". While waiting our boy is playing with his toy garbage truck for a bit, and then he grabs a ball wanting to go outside to play soccer with me. Just then mom pulls into the driveway and we go out to meet her. He starts crying and says he wants to "Stay here and play soccer." BTW, my wife is in this standoffish mood again. It takes a couple of minutes to settle him down and strap him into his car seat, and another minute to say our goodbyes. I discussed with her that I've set up Bella, our dog for a vet's appointment to get her immunization/rabies booster shots this weekend, and I asked her if I could take of it; I'd take Bella for a couple of days for that occasion. Anyway, the whole time my wife was somewhat huffy-puffy with me. Not sure if it was our son's prior behavior, or she just chose to be like that today or what. Don't get it, some days she's high, some days she's low. I mean, I do get it, but I sure don't remember my wife being THIS fickle, unless I've been blinded/biased this whole time.

[alamo76]

Wife was distant and cold yesterday too. Not sure why she can't even say "Hi" or anything like that... you know -- things you do/say when you are face-to-face with another person who happened to opened the door for you. Fake and childish.

I also realized that in half a month, my wife and I would've been separated for a year. Blimey.

Another reminder was from this past Sunday. A friend at church came up and gave me a shoulder massage. It hit me that I haven't been massaged/touched like this for more than a year, as it was my wife's specialty.

[Redo]

Wife was distant and cold yesterday too. Not sure why she can't even say "Hi" or anything like that... you know -- things you do/say when you are face-to-face with another person who happened to opened the door for you. Fake and childish.

Exactly the same with my wife too. I feel that if i dont contact her for a month, she would not even know i existed. But...I stopped those thoughts from bothering me. You have to do that. Otherwise these things can eat your alive, Keep your eyes on the bigger prize. Your getting back yourself and your family. Then these little things will seem insignificant.

[alamo76]

Well, she can behave the way she wants to, but when she does it when picking up our son/in front of our son, I really hope that he doesn't learn from it. THAT