85 Days

[Denver_2010]

Fear...the root of all evil...

I don't even always see the fear...

When I acknowledge those fears, specifically, finding the root, it is pretty easy to see how "stupid" (sorry can't think of a better word) that the fear really is...

No Cat, 'stupid' is not a bad choice of words here. I think that you are 100% correct with your experience here. And it is the same thing that I experience. I'm just not certain that my fears right now fall into this category. Or at least I am having trouble seeing that they are stupid.

My life is dramatically affected if these fears come to pass. And not in a good way as I see it now.

How, whether the fear is rational or irrational, holding onto it, keeps me stuck in the fear, in the what if's, keeps me spinning.

Then it is up to me, to either let go of the fear and just live and see what happens, or stay stuck in the fear and keep going in the circles in my brain...

This is the crux of the matter... how fear affects us and our behavior. Holding onto it serves no benefit. Our rational mind can see this... yet we do it anyway.

And, as you point out, it keeps us stuck.

The answer IS to just live and see what happens. THAT IS the ANSWER. You are soooo right Cat. And you verbalize it as well as it can be verbalized.

But... HOW do we get ourselves, our minds, to let go of that fear and just live our lives? The HOW is what I am struggling with ... not the WHAT or the WHY.

I have been known to hold onto those fears, embracing them, no matter what my rational brain understood, driving my poor friend crazy until he finally stops debating it with me...which at that point, I slow down and THINK...

And usually, then I let them go...

Where I am right now. I am holding onto my fears, embracing them... regardless of what my rational brain is telling me. And I am probably driving you and others crazy ... LOL

But again, it goes back to, HOW do I let my fears go... How do I get myself to do this??

I think that it is a matter of control for ME... my fears are directly linked to my fear of NOT having control over the situation...

Denver,

Your fear of losing your W, is keeping you stuck...

Your fear of having to forgive her again, is keeping you stuck...

Your fear of being the Denver that you were beginning to become, is keeping you stuck...

Your fear that DB might not work, you may end up DIVORCED (yes I say the word, it doesn't scare me), and that will make you a failure, because you tried and didn't get your desired outcome, is keeping you stuck...

Your fear of being ALONE is keeping you stuck...

Worst case scenario...

You are already living it...

She left you. She had OM in her life. You were alone.

What happened to Denver?

You lived. You forgave. You loved.

You didn't die and you didn't fail.

Whether she comes back or not, you will go on. You will survive and you will succeed, if you choose...

Up to you now...

Are you up to the challenge?

Or is it time to throw in the towel?

Thank you Cat. That was well said.

1) Am I throwing in the towel on the idea of being happy again? No. I know that that will come in time regardless of what happens with my M.

2) Throwing in the towel on suffering through the fight indefinitely to save my M ... I don't know.

It just seems sometimes that 1 can happen sooner if I give up on 2. That is why I am stuck right now questioning myself ... is it worth it?

I have fought, struggled, felt pain, regret... I have crucified myself for the mistakes I made in my R/M with W ...

for almost 6 months I have done this.

Why?

Because I love my W, I love my family... because I know that I caused great damage to my M and to my W.... I felt that I owed it to my M, to my W, to my SS, and to MYSELF ... to go through this.

Now... W has seen what life with me could be like in the future. Yet, she is not ready ... she rejects that. And I continue to forego the hope of having what I want with someone else with the hope that she will be ready at some undetermined time in the future.

I KNOW what I want... I do want it with W ... but do I want to wait forever for her to want that with me?

I simply don't know.

Denver

My response to Cat quoted above left out a better definition for how I am feeling. I was just over on TrueGritter's thread and found something that he posted recently that describes how I am feeling to a 't'.

With apologies to Gritter for plagerizing, I am reposting his words here. (but you have told me before that it is okay if I do so Gritter )

What is lacking is peace.

That is it.

I understand all of what is happening with her and I know she is in much more pain than I will ever know or understand.

There is a lack of peace and fulfillment. You can do all you want for yourself and live your life the best way you can...

But there is still a lack.

A void.

And that is just sharing your life with someone.

That is the honest answer deep down.

This 'lack' is what I am feeling as well. And I wonder if the fight to save my M with W is worth the pain vs just getting on to truly living my life in full and trying to find someone who wants to share her life with me... so that that fulfillment which is 'lacking' in my life can be satisfied ...

IS THIS WORTH IT??

Denver

[Lotus]

Denver,

No one can answer that question for you.

But I will talk from my experience. I was a WAW who never actually walked. I walked mentally, and just left my body behind in the house and the marriage. And for years, my husband pretended he didn't notice. Life just went on. But then one day, I realized that my husband was involved with another woman. And suddenly, I realized that I was losing something important to me! I felt like I was being robbed.

Never, in all the times I talked about separating, or demanded that he move out, and while I dreamed of a new love, did I ever think I valued my husband as a person, as a lover, as a father, as anything. (Ugly, I know.)

And then one day, he wanted out. He was planning a new life without me. And I was miserable. I wanted him back. And I set my full will to winning him back.

It is fair to say, as ugly as it is, that I would not have changed, if he had not seriously looked for a new relationship. It's just human nature. But as Joni Mitchell sang, "Don't it always seem to go that you don't know what you've got til it's gone?"

I'm not suggesting this as a ploy. Don't do it to win back your wife. You can only do it when you are truly ready to move on. I'm just saying that, under those circumstances, it is likely that your wife would have second thoughts. What she does with them, I can't predict. And what you do if she changes her mind, I also can't predict.

[25yearsmlc]

as Lotus said, no can decide for you. But I just think your time line has been...well...puny.

Second, I don't know what your m was like before. At its' best, at it's usual (in the decent times) and at its' worst (worst, in the normal category PRE bombs..)

Was it a tumultuous M, a roller coaster with super HIGH highs, and LOW lows, or a m that was the envy of many. Was it somewhere in between? I think most m's are like the ocean, with an ebb and a flow to them.

The first 10 years of my m were the envy of others in terms of our connection with each other. Couples commented on it at THEIR weddings. This connection and closeness was despite the hardships of vet school, med school (h was first there) and then my law school (and had 2 kids in there (#3 came later). We were tight. As his studies and 2nd career took its toll, (and God it took a toll. I would NEVER marry a man who wanted to be an MD, again, no offense to the pre-meds out there. Sure, if they're are ALL done with the hell, it's fine. But going thru it, is not). ANYHOW

after so long of deferring pleasure and quality time, feeling like an attractive woman with nowhere to go, IOW, lonely, with no end in sight....

I ALMOST had a PA. Looking back I guess it was = to EA moving towards a PA. H was an intern/MD working over 90hrs a week (NOT counting his studies, that's at work with patient time...insanity) and NO days off for weeks at a time (like 5-6 weeks, then ONE day off, literally). Am I blaming him? The point is, I did THEN!!

It was Desert Storm, we were both active duty. Oh, what's that? WHY DID I JOIN??? I joined the frickin' Army B/C H owed them years for his med school..."if you can't beat 'em, join 'em"...

Then guess who got orders to go? NOT H, ME!! Soooo, you have a sitch wherein my h majorly neglects me due to sleep deprivation, insane, unrelenting hours, and pressure, we have 2 small children who are needy and in a new assignment/state, I'm in a high pressure job AND preparing to deploy to what sounded at the time, like something that could be WWIII (depending on Israel, etc)....

When who Enters my work place, but , a charming Kevin Costner lookalike. Uber charming and pleasant and kind...Immediate connection. OM has NORMAL hours, home at night...wth??? What's that like?? OMG...

When I opened a show (I perform as an avocation)...so H didn't remember this and was on call that night, refusing to ask anyone to cover for him b/c then they might not like him. H would NOT make waves at work that really were not "waves"....No one would have cared if he had taken THAT night off and it meant so much to me...at the last minute, h "remembered the night OF" and took 2 hours off to rush around missing 3/4 of the show, to see PART of the show and brought our then S5...I wasn't mad, I was diasspointed. Then I got flowers...from Kevin Costner lookalike who shows up opening night AND other nights, brings flowers and champagne "thanking me" for a wonderful evening.

Denver, I'm NOT proud of this but I learned a lot. If I had not had this experience I know I'd never forgive h for an A, but seeing how close I came, makes it easier.

I was VERY attracted to OM, but in a way I just wanted out of my life...I got little sleep, took the kids to daycare EARLY and got to work during war, working in the Army is TENSION FILLED ALL THE TIME, had a hard job in the JAG Corps at that time,(did casualty notifications, ouch)

in a new area without family, but little ones at home, daycare problems galore, and facing a deployment that required me to get a new gas mask and dental x-rays "for identification purposes"...talk about a reality check. Times were intense. I did subconsiously blame h at times b/c I would never have been in the situation, but for HIS career choices made AFTER we married. (He was a veterinary student when we married, and I was HAPPY he was NOT an MD...times change).

Here's the point. I never told h b/c I worked it out. I told a sister then a chaplain and I went to see a shrink. Oddly, I also told my dad and he was really helpful. He thought it all out with me...

RE As...."okay so you don't have enough intimacy or time as a couple NOW, and your other issues with your h, but probably will someday when training subsides, THINGS will improve so this would only be a temporary "solution"...Plus...war is intense and puts a dramatic spin on things, YOU are lonely, you want passion and romance and a fresh start and you are tired of facing years more of h's training and long hours, you didnt sign up for this, and knowing your youth is spent mostly waiting for him to be home, But when he comes home you want him NOT to be tired or irritable as hell due to sleep deprivation....ALL THINGS I TRULY FELT...
Then my dad said, think it out...you sleep with OM...and???? Do you just keep it that level, fun in bed? Is that really you? Adultery for..."fun sex"? Maybe some men can do that, but you can't. You'll end it, or you'll fall in love. Either way, a painful choice will come to your life. Most women attach emotion to sex, at least, EVENTUALLY, so there you have to make a terribly painful choice...how will your kids see you, your h, etc? Imagine the scene...and contrast that with your self image of being an officer, Christian, woman of substance...how's that going to feel in the mirror? OUCH!

The image of my kids and h crying b/c of me killed me. But it took months of me "working" on this to get OM out of my mind. I even thought I "loved" him, which is pretty crazy since we didn't know each other well and realistically, we had little in common....to this day, I shake my head and wonder how this same brain could be the brain I had then...

Point #2 is, IF my h had learned of my struggle and "outed" me, I'd have left his butt on the curb. SORRY but You see, in my mind, I was nearly totally justified.
In my mind, at that time, I felt so neglected and lonely (hell, I WAS NEGLECTED AND LONELY!! I know it's not the worst thing in the world but at the time, being a 29 y/o woman surrounded by men and missing my own h, and getting orders to combat b/c of HIS choices...so I felt h had pushed me away and I really struggled to find ways to have passion in my life (hence the theater and films) in a safe way.

IF H had tried to humiliate ME, or SHAME ME with it....I'd have made sure I was "proved right" by filing for divorce or at least, leaving him. Plus I'd say that the humiliation was all mine, all those hundreds of nights he was GONE at work and I was alone or alone with the kids, OR he was home but not in the mood b/c apparently he was too tired or his next case was more interesting/important than time with me and or our young children..God he missed SO MUCH...

I worked it out with personal/spiritual work, without h. And OM got deployed sooner than me and I never saw him again for maybe 2 years and we just avoided eye contact.

If it had gotten totally physical (and spare me the argument that EAs are the SAME AS PA's, to me they're not and I don't believe to most men, that they are either. An EA is harder to define when you are crossing a line, my work dictates I interact with men a lot, I was a tomboy anyhow in a male profession and I have 5 brothers. I am comfortable with me. Some of them are dear friends and I share things with them that I might NOT share with h, not R things..more like political differences, So, am I going to hell?

This was now about 20 years ago. It was a crisis, in me. If my h had a similar one and worked it out, choosing me, frankly I don't want to know.

My "EA" or whatever it was, was the result of how h and i were NOT connecting, my needs were so UNmet and for so long. I can blame him for his career choices, and neglect and poor coping skills (temper issues so bad that D2 was afraid of him then) Or whatever, but NOW his worklife and mine are both better now, and I have enough other GAL things in my life to channel the passions I need to have, that even if h's hours get bad again, I'll be alright. OR I'll tell him to be home more and I like to think that NOW, he'd listen better.


I am very tired now and don't know if any of this helps. It's just that I don't think the OM is as big a deal as you do and I sort of know what I'm talking about.

Comparing them...OM was cuter at the time, "newer" and built differently but h has always been in shape, or within 10lbs. I like that. He's A bit of a health nut.
H was comparable in looks though I did find OM more exciting for the novelty, My h was smarter, more educated, more accomplished and much higher ranking-we had much more in common in almost every way. But h was gone, literally or physically not available to me for so long. Even when next to me in bed, the intimacy was so lacking and to an extent that went off & on, for years. The 4 yrs/med school/4 yrs residency and I had just had a baby when med school began AND just finsihed law school. So our lives were tough and b/c I had the responsibility for the kids AND a job, and house, etc. I felt unfairlyburdened for YEARS and there wasn't any end in sight Denver...when was I going to have romance or passion in my life? Was I going to lose it before turning 30?

Sorry if this sound immodest but I am not an ugly woman, and have never had problems attracting men. But being m to an MD and SOLDIER increases your chances of a long periods of forced celibacy a LOT...and that stinks...
So whatever your issues were prior to all this, whatever your w thinks was missing and that OM provides, let her find out that his IQ isn't as "fun" to discuss movies with, and his morals might not be quite what she likes...
and the good times you have had in the past, WILL RESURFACE IN TIME...

If my h had found out about OM and got his act together and dramatically improved his hours somehow, (some of our friends took a one year hiatus to live in Europe. I WOULD HAVE LOVED THAT..but h was always on a track to somewhere, didn't stop and smell roses...) well then Gosh, my dreams would have come true.

But ahem, I did not think that would be his reaction and so, we didn't go there.

I'm still amazed that I actually thought I "loved" OM for months, (also loved h, but didn't feel "in love" with as much THEN....

But definitely fantasized a lot about life with OM, imagining a life where the h is home every night, AND holidays, and does NOT get called away MOST weekend nights, leaving me stranded all types of places, needing a cab home, so we could not actually plan things...h missed 9 NINE Thanksgivings in a row. Kids didn't "get" the holiday so we created a Friday based one...I dreamed...Imagine a h paying attention to ME and the kids and NOT FIRST studying, Not FIRST doing everything else and giving us his "left over energy"...imagine a h giving me my Love Language of time together and affection. It was a hard time. It's hard to compete with a cancer patient or a trauma case...they always take precedence.

But in hindsight, of course I did not "love" OM...
but if someone had pushed me "TO CHOOSE", it would not have pushed me home.

So Give her time and space, let her figure this out and get your ego out of the way.

Not all the sex with him is great. You worry that she's NEVER FAKING IT...ALWAYS HAVING GREAT PERFECT SEX...A LOT...OM SOMEHOW KNOWS WITHOUT WORDS, EXACTLY WHAT SHE LOVES AND HATES...TELEPATHICALLY THEY DO NOT HAVE TO SPEAK, HE JUST READS HER MIND...THERE ARE NO MEMORIES OF DENVER, NO SONGS, PLACES, EVENTS THAT REMIND HER OF ANYTHING GOOD...

really Denver? You believe that?

Of course not...back off my friend. If you had a marriage that you felt happy in, then I guess I say yes for now, I say it's worth it. I think. Better to hang in a bit too long, than to quit a bit too soon, don't you think?

When it's time to quit, IF that time comes, I think you will just know.

[ninelives]

Another Outstanding post 25. Denver you lucky bystander, these are pearls of wisdom and the insight of a WAW of sorts.

Ofcourse, 25 is different than your wife but im sure there are similare patterns in the thought process.

Just to hijack for a second Denver:

As you know 25, I was punative when I found out. I wish I read your stuff here before I found out but i didnt.

Do you think I caused too much Damage that just solidified her connection to OM and caused her to resent me passed the point of
NO return!?!

Anyway Denver, hang on as long as you need to and I like the quote " Its better to hang on too long than give up too soon"

Great stuff.

9

[25yearsmlc]

9,
"Too far gone?", come on.
How long have you been DBing? Is it up to 20 hours yet? I mean without a backslide, have you done a full 72 hours?

Yes, we know you've told us that FOR YOU, DBing is "so hard", (and it's such a breeze for the rest of us, but somehow, we managed to change our behaviors for more than a day...).

9, we KNOW you live in "a small town" and you "can't move", (why can't you move just a few miles away? "Can't" go to another town for groceries OR just shop later when you see her car... You "can't" stop engaging, "can't" keep your emotions in check, "can't" end conversations on a good note, "can't, can't, can't"...
Look 9, I do NOT see your situation as harder than most. Honestly, it's inconvenient b/c of the small town run ins, but there are obvious upsides to that which others would envy, so it more than evens out.

I feel those "can'ts" are just excuses for repeating mistakes.
So now, Are you really just wanting a new excuse for not trying something that you find really difficult? As in,
"9, you may as well give up, since you already went too far..."

Nonsense.

You're not getting a pass from me. If you had a marriage that was ever good (did you guys have some good times and loving memories?) Marriages with children rarely cannot recover at some point. Some of them will just take longer. And since you are among the least patient DBers around...?? Well, you tell us.

As far as going too far, I don't know what you have done or what you are referring to, or did at the time of your discovery or exactly what you are referring to. Without that information, I cannot suggest ways to repair. But I have never told someone ON THIS SITE, that it's hopeless or to give up. This isn't the place for that.

9, Look, you repeat mistakes, your timeline for monitoring or expecting results is just, well, silly. You get disappointed when she doesn't jump back into your arms, after ONE good interaction, or thinking it must not be working b/c she's still thinking about OM & yet you were nice to her 3 times! The whining about how much you miss her and want her, yeah, we get it. Been there, done that. I don't think it's the way to get through this b/c I think you let it consume you.

When You read into & commented on how your w hugged you after her mother died.[/i that was telling. Here's a 2 x 4. You can be very needy and clingy [i]and self centered. Forgive me for asking, but did you actually read the DB books cover to cover?

FYI, yes, I had some darn hard times with DB too. OH WAIT, I just recalled that this is Denver's thread.
Yikes, this is a hijack. Sorry Denver...okay hope that helps 9.
See you on your thread sometime.

[Denver_2010]

Denver,

No one can answer that question for you.

But I will talk from my experience. I was a WAW who never actually walked. I walked mentally, and just left my body behind in the house and the marriage. And for years, my husband pretended he didn't notice. Life just went on. But then one day, I realized that my husband was involved with another woman. And suddenly, I realized that I was losing something important to me! I felt like I was being robbed.

Never, in all the times I talked about separating, or demanded that he move out, and while I dreamed of a new love, did I ever think I valued my husband as a person, as a lover, as a father, as anything. (Ugly, I know.)

And then one day, he wanted out. He was planning a new life without me. And I was miserable. I wanted him back. And I set my full will to winning him back.

It is fair to say, as ugly as it is, that I would not have changed, if he had not seriously looked for a new relationship. It's just human nature. But as Joni Mitchell sang, "Don't it always seem to go that you don't know what you've got til it's gone?"

I'm not suggesting this as a ploy. Don't do it to win back your wife. You can only do it when you are truly ready to move on. I'm just saying that, under those circumstances, it is likely that your wife would have second thoughts. What she does with them, I can't predict. And what you do if she changes her mind, I also can't predict.

Lotus - I want to again thank you for keeping up with my sitch, sharing your experience, and offering your advice.

The above... I think that you are correct with how my W would react to me moving on.

I'm not sure if that is what you are nudging me to consider?

Trust me, it has occurred to me... both as a true decision... and as a ploy.

3 things stop me...

1) Love for my W and the hope, that others point out as well, that I still hear in her words.

2) The strong belief that once I pull that switch... all is lost for my M... that I will be DONE... no turning back.

3) the thought that, maybe, I have not given this enough time. As my friend Jack has told me, 'life's lessons are hard for a reason' ... I feel that I have already learned a very valuable life lesson from all of this... but maybe I haven't learned everything that there is for me to learn. ... and as 25 has told me multiple times, my timeline here has been relatively short (even though it seems like an eternity to me)...

In the meantime? My W is going to do one of two things: 1) try to really work on figuring out what she wants with her life... "work on herself" as we like to say here... or 2) cake eat.

I guess that I can't control what she does one way or the other.

Denver

[Denver_2010]

Came across an interesting thought on 'resistance' ... the more that we resist something, the more we magnify and give power to whatever it is we are resisting.

When we fear losing someone in a R, when we resist, we hang on... and ultimately push that person away.

Just something that struck me while reading today.

thanks Cat.

Denver

[Denver_2010]

I just think your time line has been...well...puny.

It is hard to see that when you are in the middle of the sh!t 25... but I KNOW that someday, in hindsight, I will see this.

who Enters my work place, but , a charming Kevin Costner lookalike. Uber charming and pleasant and kind...Immediate connection. OM has NORMAL hours, home at night...wth??? What's that like?? OMG...

When I opened a show (I perform as an avocation)...so H didn't remember this and was on call that night, refusing to ask anyone to cover for him b/c then they might not like him. H would NOT make waves at work that really were not "waves"....No one would have cared if he had taken THAT night off and it meant so much to me...at the last minute, h "remembered the night OF" and took 2 hours off to rush around missing 3/4 of the show, to see PART of the show and brought our then S5...I wasn't mad, I was diasspointed. Then I got flowers...from Kevin Costner lookalike who shows up opening night AND other nights, brings flowers and champagne "thanking me" for a wonderful evening.

Denver, I'm NOT proud of this but I learned a lot. If I had not had this experience I know I'd never forgive h for an A, but seeing how close I came, makes it easier.

Here's the point. I never told h b/c I worked it out. I told a sister then a chaplain and I went to see a shrink. Oddly, I also told my dad and he was really helpful. He thought it all out with me...

The image of my kids and h crying b/c of me killed me. But it took months of me "working" on this to get OM out of my mind. I even thought I "loved" him, which is pretty crazy since we didn't know each other well and realistically, we had little in common....to this day, I shake my head and wonder how this same brain could be the brain I had then...

Point #2 is, IF my h had learned of my struggle and "outed" me, I'd have left his butt on the curb. SORRY but You see, in my mind, I was nearly totally justified.
In my mind, at that time, I felt so neglected and lonely (hell, I WAS NEGLECTED AND LONELY!! I know it's not the worst thing in the world but at the time, being a 29 y/o woman surrounded by men and missing my own h, and getting orders to combat b/c of HIS choices...so I felt h had pushed me away and I really struggled to find ways to have passion in my life (hence the theater and films) in a safe way.

IF H had tried to humiliate ME, or SHAME ME with it....I'd have made sure I was "proved right" by filing for divorce or at least, leaving him. Plus I'd say that the humiliation was all mine, all those hundreds of nights he was GONE at work and I was alone or alone with the kids, OR he was home but not in the mood b/c apparently he was too tired or his next case was more interesting/important than time with me and or our young children..God he missed SO MUCH...

This was now about 20 years ago. It was a crisis, in me. If my h had a similar one and worked it out, choosing me, frankly I don't want to know.

My "EA" or whatever it was, was the result of how h and i were NOT connecting, my needs were so UNmet and for so long. I can blame him for his career choices, and neglect and poor coping skills (temper issues so bad that D2 was afraid of him then)

So much of what you describe above resonates with me and my situation. I did so many similar things as your H did... and I KNOW that my W felt much the way that you describe of yourself.

Thank you so much for sharing that! It literally has me in tears, but it is so nice to hear someone else talk about their experience that I can relate to... and actually have a happy ending. Thank you... thank you.

I am very tired now and don't know if any of this helps. It's just that I don't think the OM is as big a deal as you do and I sort of know what I'm talking about.

I know that you do 25. And I value what you are saying sooo much.

But ... what I am experiencing hurts sooo much too.

I was out with friends... and while talking about my sitch to one of them, I told him that I am certain of 2 things: 1) that if my W and I make it through this, our M will be stronger and healthier for it... and 2) that if my M does NOT make it, that I will be stronger and healthier as a result of this.

I truly believe that. But its the distance between point A (where I am now) and point B (either of the two possibilities above) that is just so difficult to get through.

Comparing them...OM was cuter at the time, "newer" and built differently but h has always been in shape, or within 10lbs. I like that. He's A bit of a health nut.
H was comparable in looks though I did find OM more exciting for the novelty, My h was smarter, more educated, more accomplished and much higher ranking-we had much more in common in almost every way. But h was gone, literally or physically not available to me for so long. Even when next to me in bed, the intimacy was so lacking and to an extent that went off & on, for years. The 4 yrs/med school/4 yrs residency and I had just had a baby when med school began AND just finsihed law school. So our lives were tough and b/c I had the responsibility for the kids AND a job, and house, etc. I felt unfairlyburdened for YEARS and there wasn't any end in sight Denver...when was I going to have romance or passion in my life? Was I going to lose it before turning 30?

Again, I think that so much of your story is comparable to what has occurred, and is occurring, in my sitch. W has given me some insight on her comparisons bw me and OM. She has said that I am 'way cuter' ... she has said that he is 'dirt poor' ... but it is the lack of intimacy that we had in the last year of our M/R ... and all of the BAD history with me ... that scares W ... and how OM makes her feel that she is out of his league ... whereas she says that I always made her feel like she should think that she was out of my league.

It is tough to compete with this.

So whatever your issues were prior to all this, whatever your w thinks was missing and that OM provides, let her find out that his IQ isn't as "fun" to discuss movies with, and his morals might not be quite what she likes...
and the good times you have had in the past, WILL RESURFACE IN TIME...

I think so too. When W broached the subject of reconciling back in February, she told me that she was not in love with OM, that he was over the top and smothering with how he wanted to treat her.

And there she was... admitting that feelings for me had resurfaced in mid-January. After 2 1/2 months of being separated.

Do I think that will happen again? Yes. I do.

W has 'feelings' for OM... and doesn't know if she can find the 'in love' feelings for me that she buried when she left. So again, this comment resonates.

What my W needs to figure out is that love is a choice... not something that just strikes us out of the blue like lightening. And the 'in love' feelings that she feels she is missing for me NOW are cyclical. I just don't know if she will figure this out in time for us to make it.

Again, it is good to hear that you, as the WAW, were able to figure this out and find those 'in love' feelings for your H eventually.

[quote=25yearsmlc] if someone had pushed me "TO CHOOSE", it would not have pushed me home.
So Give her time and space, let her figure this out and get your ego out of the way.

Okay 25... thank you. Your post has brought me to tears multiple times as I have read it multiple times. Not just bc your story resonates with me so much, and not just because it is filled with hope... but bc I just feel so exhausted by everything. And I am realizing that I still have a very long road to go... and I have to find the strength to do it.

I have come this far... my timeline is puny ... 6 months, 12 months, whatever, is such a short period of time in the grand scheme of things... and I will be, my M may be, stronger when I have finished traveling this road.

I add you to my list of people to thank for saving me and possibly my M when all of this is over 25. Thank you. This post is one that I know that I will refer to often.

Not all the sex with him is great. You worry that she's NEVER FAKING IT...ALWAYS HAVING GREAT PERFECT SEX...A LOT...OM SOMEHOW KNOWS WITHOUT WORDS, EXACTLY WHAT SHE LOVES AND HATES...TELEPATHICALLY THEY DO NOT HAVE TO SPEAK, HE JUST READS HER MIND...THERE ARE NO MEMORIES OF DENVER, NO SONGS, PLACES, EVENTS THAT REMIND HER OF ANYTHING GOOD...

really Denver? You believe that?

Rationally? No. But the demons creep in 25... they creep in a lot when you don't KNOW what is happening... hell, I don't even know how much my W is even talking to OM... but the demons creep in... My W has told me that she just needs space from everyone... but the demons creep in... my W has told me that she doesn't want to date anyone... but the demons creep in...

Of course not...back off my friend. If you had a marriage that you felt happy in, then I guess I say yes for now, I say it's worth it. I think. Better to hang in a bit too long, than to quit a bit too soon, don't you think?

When it's time to quit, IF that time comes, I think you will just know.

Thank you for not being afraid to offer me a true opinion. I will do my best to do what you are advising me to do 25. I will try to drop the rope for a while.

Denver

[Lotus]

Denver,

I am not urging you to do anything. I am just telling you what I learned from experience. Because, until I was in the situation, I didn't think I would feel that way. It came as a surprise to me.

I know a lot of people recommend it as a ploy. But I don't believe I would have had the strong reaction unless it was a real threat to all that I took for granted in life. I find that our "thinking" often is not at all tied to our realities. It's just how we tell the story of ourselves to ourselves. When my reality crashed, everything I had thought for years flew out the window. I had new knowledge that came from my gut.

But a ploy wouldn't have done it for me. My husband was really gone. I saw the emails between him and OW. She continued to fight for him. And he continued to resist my changes for quite some time. Winning him back was not easy. And I am not so cavalier with him anymore.

[25yearsmlc]

Denver,

when the demons creep in about how great it all is with OM, the constant fireworks, the magic telepathy, etc. INSTEAD let's turn it into HIS Demons...think of HIM having gas, bad breath, being irritable, smothing with idiotic crap, getting drunk and being a goofy sloppy drunk, or simply flossing too vigorously, clipping his toenails, not getting her jokes b/c he's too dense, not understanding any of her topical references b/c he has no idea who she is referring to, has no WELL FORMED opinions on events, economics or his own finances, is dating "UP" with your w but really that means she's dating down......She said "YOU MADE" her feel lower "ranked" but the good news there is, that's not going to happen anymore.

You're right that if you two end up staying m, it'll be a better m, and if not, YOU will be a better man. That part is already happening Denver...already happening.