ISO WAW Decoder

[Blessed2BeADad]

Come on...if you want your m to ever have a chance, or if you want to learn how to be a better h for whomever, you have to look inwardly. That's where the real journey is.

I am grateful for your advice... I am trying to work on me. Without trying to sound like an ahole though, I began my changes in 2007... Big and lasting changes in 2009-present. Although I am still making some... I feel I will be doing them for someone else at this point... And that's ok too. We almost never see eachother so changes are mostly unnoticed. I am doing things more for me now... To improve myself for me.

[25yearsmlc]

I don't recall what state you are in nor do I know why you filed, when it comes to DBing. I guess it was a huge ultimatum? Now you are in a place you don't want to be.

Wisconsin


Do you still want to save your m?

I do, but I'm very worried she will never return... I am prepared for that. I'm also worried I'll be back here some day in the furure

First, we all worry that 1) we won't get the chance to try, or 2) we will get the chance but we'll be back here someday. No guarantees are provided. Each takes the risk, not just you.

And you may well be back here if you don't seriously see your role in this. With her or some OW....

In hindsight, wouldn't hiring help have been a good idea? (Cheaper than divorce!) But also you might not have resented the things you did at home as much, b/c it sounds as if you were not 'Cheerfully" helping her, but begrudgingly so, in a way that suggested you were compensating for her deficiencies as a wife/mother, instead of simply being a good partner to her.

Even now, the way you describe the situation makes you into a hero and her a loser, even though all you did was help do what she had been doing mostly alone before. See my point?

If this is the first time you've had someone tell you that you played a role in this bigger than "minor mistakes", then I'm sure this is tough to hear. But if you want a chance at a better m, with your w or some other w than you need to look deeply at your behavior. Forgive yourself too, but learn from the mistakes you made. And examine those motives too. The reasons behind some of our choices can guide us. When we come from a place of light and love, versus wanting to "show them the consequences" which is a dark place of revenge, we learn what not to do.

Even now, you are using that victim lens to see yourself with, and you don't do yourself any favors by making out as if you are the victim. Imagine how hopeless this would be if you really had been a perfect h, and she still left. The silver lining here is that you were not perfect, which is alright b/c you are human, and your lives were unduly stressful (she tried to warn you...) and so, things CAN improve!

Your changes + time = her believing in them. When she sees that she really can count on you, and that you put her and the kids first and not yourself, she may come to believe that you are the man she hoped you were and wanted all along. It's tough for a woman to turn that down. Can you make that a long term goal?

But HER fears are going to be that 1) you will throw her mistakes in her face every time you are angry-which you did w/ kissing OM, 2) you will keep a scorecard--(um you definitely have tendencies that way, AND OR 3) you will take her for granted again.

Frankly, doesn't she have more to fear by reconciling than you? Think about it.

Fact is you two had a tough situation. It was very stressful and you blamed each other for the stress (she blamed you for the extra kids and no extra help, and you blamed her for 'making you help more') which is too bad b/c you could instead, have leaned on each other (or gotten outside help!!). As the kids age, things do get easier. That would have happened if you could have made it there. In my eyes, assignment of blame is not helpful now although insights into how you'd do things differently is.

The issues about your ex w and sleeping with her before the m, and her kissing some guy at work and telling you, means neither one of you knows what forgiveness looks like. Many of us don't. I never saw it between my parents until my dad was on his deathbed. It's a learned skill. It always includes the NOT throwing it in the other's face though. Once you let it go, you don't pick it back up.

And most women don't kiss co=workers if they get attention at home. I doubt you married a loose woman. So IF she felt you trapped her into being a breeding machine wife b/c you insisted on more children right then, she may have felt deeply hurt and humiliated. (ANY truth to the idea that by having more children she would be LESS likely to leave you?)

If she didn't feel like a sexy desirable woman or equal partner (and most women don't feel like equals when big unilateral choices are made), then it was a recipe for this type of behavior. I am NOT defending it but I am trying to get you to see that some things YOU did, and can change, would affect the likelihood of a woman repeating that on you. I was in the Army and surrounded by men, many of whom were attractive. The times I have been tempted in my m, were always the times I was most neglected, h was working the most or was the most stressed or was away. I was lonely. No, I didn't have an A but I'm saying I did see how it could happen. And it was directly related to how things were at home.
When you say you have sent "fig leafs" (I assume you mean
"olive branches"? ) give an example.

And don't forget, she won't trust your changes until she sees them consistently and over time. Otherwise they're going to look like tactics to get her back and she wants to know she can feel safe with you again. That means TIME & consistent behavior on your end AND 180s...

Don't spend any of your energy now telling me how bad or sad or crazy she is. That does nothing for you and your work, which is all you control anyhow. Besides, it smacks of hypocrisy. The main thing and the good news is that you see some things you didn't see or admit seeing, before. That means change in you is possible. That's really good news for you, it's HOPE.

FYI, when we went to mc I ALWAYS wanted the mc to tell me what I could do differently (this was after my "awakening"). I wanted to be the "wrong" one. Why? B/C I CAN CHANGE...if my spouse is the "wrong one" or the jerk or the "guess he wants to be single again" then there is nothing I can do and I have no control over my m...that stinks. Make sense?

So yeah, I wanted to have something within my control and any behavior that needed repairing or discarding was excellent news to me. Forget the pride, I wanted to be a better wife and mother and stay married, but happily. This is crucial to grasp and was singularly important in my m being restored.

I can say that I believe my h "wronged me" in the past. AND...SO? Do I divorce him b/c of that? B/C I was "right" and he was wrong? I married a man with flaws...none of which are NOW deal breakers. So I accept them and focus on the good bond we have.

I did some things I'm not proud of either. Point now is , We realized that we would never fully agree on the past (we each have our own lens thru which we see things) and one thing that used to frustrate me was how differently he could recall things, or not at all. For instance, I know where I was and what I was doing (drywall in the guest bathroom, fyi) when I asked him if he realized he was endangering the m and family by leaving for the north, and he said "guess I'm just willing to take that chance."

B2B, my h swears he never said that. Says it's "out of character"for him to say something like that (true but he said it, trust me). Thing is, I believe that he does not recall it. So, do I keep on harping? Do I try to find "witnesses"? NO. IIt's not important that our historical recall be identical. What matters is that we agree on the future behavior, "From this day forward" and that each partner KNOWS the other one will never throw a past "Sin" in their face...ever.

Think you can try to get there someday? You can leave your children a legacy of divorce and bitter behavior, or you can become a better man, not a bitter man. Leave a legacy of commitment, FULL fidelity, compassion and forgiveness, all wrapped into a marriage.

[Blessed2BeADad]

Yes I do agree that hiring help, would have been wise and certainly cheaper and less painful than divorce. Honestly at that point she was doing nothing. Also she had kissed other men before we even had our first child, before I was working overtime, while I was there for her (due to my infidelity while we dated I'm sure).

Regardless I don't want to paint myself as a hero, but I want you to understand I tried... Dear GOD did I... I got it... I understood my mistakes and did my best to recover for many years. I helped out of love... Was not angry... I loved being home with my kids... I gave of myself because I thought she was having a breakdown. I became resentful after she left... I felt like it was a slap in the face after how much I gave... How hard I tried. Bottom line she checked out and the more I tried to be a better husband... I became less of man in her eyes... Less desirable I guess... just my opinion.

You know when this all started my W said she wanted out because she was not in love with me, felt I ruined her life by having so many kids, she felt life was passing her by. She told the counselor I had made all the changes she could think of, that I was nearly perfect, but she didn't feel she loved me any longer. There were OM in her life at that point.

I agree I think it's important for me to stop putting her in a bad light... regardless of it being true or not. I see it does make me look like an angry jerk and justifies her actions. I will try today forth to leave my comments ands frustrated rants for these boards.

yes I did mean olive branch... No wonder she looked at me wierd.

[Blessed2BeADad]

I am not a victim... I realize now I created this outcome. I had hoped she was more willing to ride out the storm though. Then again this occurring is the only way some of my changes came to be. Provided we reconcile someday, I'd easily say this was the best thing that could have happened to our marriage. I will admit now my mistakes were major.

By scorecard you mean keeping track of what she did wrong vs what I did? Blaming her? You suggest just dropping it? What's an appropriate way to deal with that feeling?

[Blessed2BeADad]

Thanx that has given me a better perspective. After reading that I can see there are still things I have to work on... Many things I can do to be better. I do want to be a better person a better husband, even if not with current W.

I have been trying my best to establish some sort of workable relationship for our kids. I want my children to see how hard I tried and how gracefully I conducted myself... I am disappointed in some of the things I've said and done up to this point... I can only change what I do today forward.

25yearsmlc... Again thank you very much for taking time outa of your life to help me and others... Unbelievable kind. I love reading your stuff, so helpful, from the heart, and from a woman's perspective. We are all grateful you are here. God Bless You!

[Blessed2BeADad]

FYI next week we have a meeting with attorneys regarding financial stuff. If we can come to some sort of agreement, which I suspect we will... We will be divorced by June 1st.

[Blessed2BeADad]

Note to self: Stop blaming, less worry and talk of the past... Take responsibilty and MOVE ON gracefully... Focus on my babies! Stay Positive and invest MY time in ME & MY future.

[25yearsmlc]

I am not a victim... I realize now I created this outcome. I had hoped she was more willing to ride out the storm though. Then again this occurring is the only way some of my changes came to be. Provided we reconcile someday, I'd easily say this was the best thing that could have happened to our marriage. I will admit now my mistakes were major.

By scorecard you mean keeping track of what she did wrong vs what I did? Blaming her? You suggest just dropping it? What's an appropriate way to deal with that feeling?

Yes it is important you see your role in this, so that there's MORE HOPE for your future. If you saw nothing wrong in how you were, and she still left, you'd be justifiably terrified. The great news is you have 180s to do and GAL to do, etc. That will make you into a better man. That's good! (FYI, at one point I gave my m a 10% chance of success...things can be very dark but you never know).

YES I mean drop the scorecard and I mean the marital history in which we each list what we think the other did wrong. It never matches their view (they have their own scorecard and they are way ahead on theirs!!)

It just reinforces our own stubborn ways. Does us no good. What matters is this day forward, etc.

You seem to be asking me if you should "just drop it" as if that seems wrong to you. That comes from your "victim" mentality. I know you are hurt and reeling. You see things now a bit differently but the things I said to you about your role are still so new to you that they have not sunk in. So you still feel like the "aggrieved party". And so you think that holding onto your scorecard, does...exactly....what.... for YOU?

See, scorecards are symbols of NOT forgiving, of holding onto our pain, And they keep you stuck. Forgiveness is not about HER. It's about YOU. It's about setting YOU FREE of your pain. I heard that "holding onto anger at someone b/c you think they deserve it, is like lighting yourself on fire to get smoke in their eyes."
I can't stress this enough. I used to write long letters to h, some of which I did not send. But in them, I ended up counting all his "sins" and wrongs over the years, and I always always came out FAR ahead on my measuring tool. It just did ME no good. It made me so angry that I ended up learning nothing about h or his point of view. I just defended myself...to ME...useless, counter productive, etc.

You will have to do some major work on this issue or you will NOT heal fast and you will become a bItter man, not a bEtter man...We get what we attract. And when you contemplate her with OMs don't assume they're having a ball all the time, GREAT Sex and lots of it and NO FLAWS in OM and NO problems at all...it's not realistic. You guys had some good times. Good memories. There are songs and places that will remind her of those good times. Those will resurface in time, if you get out of the way.

FYi--yes your m may end soon...That's a drag and I wish your L could slow it down. But so you know, 2 family members of mine divorced and remarried their exes, years later. The 2nd time around was better. It happens. They each began with a div that wasn't filled with rancor or revenge. So, lose those feelings asap. When you are honest and forgiving of yourself (b/c if you wont' forgive yourself then you probably won't really look at your own behavior) you'll see that you played a bigger role in this that you previously realized and so, you'll be able to cut her more slack. And in time, she'll do the same with you. IN TIME...you see, she'll see her own role in a more realistic light as she learns FROM YOU, that it's okay to see things realistically and that we are not all proud of what we have done...you'll show her by forgiving her that she can do the same for you. IN TIME. Right now she's busy justifying herself so you have to be vilified. Don't fuel those negative images.

Here's what my DB coach told me and see what parts help, discard what doesn't.

1) Lose the anger in front of her (and kids). (If this requires prayer or meditation, do it). It is crucial that you are NOT angry at her. If she treats you rudely, use your feet and walk away or hang up. No fighting.

2) Applaud loudly for the 1% of positives she does. (YEAH, I KNOW that's hard...like Mother Teresa hard...) That means positive affirmations, compliments, etc.

3) Keep the Road Home, Paved and Smooth (don't make it harder than it already would be for her to come home. Don't issue ultimatums unless you WILL live by them without regret.) No punishing. She's dealing with inner pain anyhow. No way is she "scott free" in her heart. But YOU telling her she's wrong, is not going to advance your cause.

4) Lose the scorecard, and historical focus, stay focussed on now and tomorrow.

5) Counter her negative images with postives (180s) and do NOT FUEL her negatives...(IF she said you were messy, be neat. If she said you dressed from the 80's, get an updated wardrobe, etc) Undermine her negatives.

6)* MY own addition--learn about what Forgiveness looks like. AND Begin to do it.


I didn't see it growing up. My parents yelled and my dad got louder AND LOUDER and then they retreated. Never saw an apology until my dad was on his deathbed, filled with regrets...I read some Marianne Williamson's books on that and she had exercises for forgiveness that helped me.

7) Imagine your HAPPY life with your w in the future and how you'd do things differently. Then imagine your HAPPY life WITHOUT your w in the future. What does that look like? What in that picture can you begin to create now? It's the GAL things and some of those GAL things need to intro new people in your life. Not all solitary.

You can tell your children you will "always love their mom" and if they ask about the divorce, your job is to remind them of what will remain the same in their lives. Same schools?? Same friends?? Etc. Somehow you must reassure them that they are fine, not at fault and that no matter what happens, you'd do it all over again if this was the only way to have them in your life.

(That info was helpful to MY kids at least. I meant it too. Your kids will at some level feel they were part of the problem and there's truth to it in a sad way. Avoid letting them go there, ok? Have you been bad mouthing their mom? I will assume so. You can feel free to say that you've "been thinking abou that" and you were wrong to say it. You are now "working on" letting go of being angry b/c you were feeling hurt but that's not their problem. Then steer the topic back to fun stuff. This way they'll know you are not going to use them to take sides or blame her.

Blaming her does not get her back. And it doesn't make you look good. But admitting you both made mistakes, both loved each other and now you both love THEM, and are committed to doing right by them, will be your standard response. Does NOT matter if she says she does not love you. Irrelevant.

Your mantra or approach to her and her choices now is, one of regrettable resignation...meaning, you think that she's making a huge mistake but you accept it. You "respect" that it's her choice. Since you know you are working on youj, you're going to be a great catch. Too bad she won't benefit...(you never SAY this, you radiate it)
It's as if she's ordering food that she insists on ordering, even though we both know it'll make her sick...later....

She's an adult, she had reasons to leave, (which are no longer applicable b/c you are addressing them-but we both know it takes time for her to believe those changes are real). Now, she's off to find that the grass is greener where it gets the most water...You are living a life you are going to be proud of, and your children will benefit from the model you provide to them. It's not the worst thing in the world. And yes, it could lead to a great M. Hopefully WITH HER...

You were hurt and reacted in pain. Now you won't. The kids will see the good sides and btw, they need a lot of reassurance from you that they are not the problem...

Remember too, being the best dad you can be now, is crucial on all fronts.

Make sense?

[25yearsmlc]

Note to self: Stop blaming, less worry and talk of the past... Take responsibilty and MOVE ON gracefully... Focus on my babies! Stay Positive and invest MY time in ME & MY future.

This is good. Useful. I used to carry a few of these "notes to self" with me, literally. Had to, to stay on track.

[Blessed2BeADad]

I understand the scorecard issue... Pointless and YES in her eyes she's way ahead.

Initially I caught myself getting involved in heated conversation with others regarding W in front of kids. I quickly realized that was bad for them and have not in a while. I confide and vent here and with some close friends and family AWAY from kids ears and eyes. On a rare occasion I get emotional, but always in private now. I tell my kids every night mommy and daddy love them. I tell my girls they are beautiful like mommy. Of course I actually mean it, so it's not too difficult. I understand the importance of being selfless in regard to them... They love her as I love my mother (despite her flaws as a parent). Hiding my toxic emotions and pain is so much easier when you know doing so shields my children from having to deal with more than they are already.
s about setting YOU FREE of your pain.

I heard that "holding onto anger at someone b/c you think they deserve it, is like lighting yourself on fire to get smoke in their eyes."

SO TRUE... I had to chuckle at that one... I'm burnt to a crisp!!!

I do have to forgive... FOR ME. A life of resentment and bitterness is no life I want. I want to smile and laugh as I always have... To smile at W with love and respect and gratitude for what she has given me. I'm close and I will get there soon... Not sure where I'd be without this site and the angels who land here daily.

Regarding keeping the road home paved and smoothed... I really made a mess of it up to this point... Gonna take some work to filled the holes, but I'll work at it.

6)* MY own addition--learn about what Forgiveness looks like. AND Begin to do it.

MY HOMEWORK