M: Hello? W: Just like you to not answer your phone. Excuse me, I thought I answered the phone, that was how we're speaking.
M: Hello? Can you say that again? W: You don't pick up your phone, just like you typically do.
Can we restructure this conversation so I don't have to begin it feeling defensive and attacked?
M: I was talking to other people on the phone.
Uggggg so rude and disrespectful. I think I would tell her I don't appreciate being spoken to in such a disrespectful manner.
I'd warn her, then get off the phone. There's no way a conversation that starts like this, is going to be productive. Heck, maybe tell her that.
There's no such thing as a "grand apology" in the sense that one letter can ever address enough of the pain that was caused, to think one letter would do. I still support an apology letter (or a few) if they are specific about what they are addressing, but it has to be brief and from the heart. IT can't be a "catch all" apology letter, if you know what I mean.
I don't think it can hurt, if it's a focussed letter but if it takes all the heat for everything and that isn't truly justified, then it ends up just validating too much of their version. Saying "If I could do things over, I'd do a lot of things differently" always helps b/c you want them to know you are different now, and so, 2nd marriage would be differernt too.
With the porn thing, that's a good specific thing to own up to, and you know it hurt the m and her feelings/ego as a desirable woman, etc. I think a short to the point but from the heart letter, reassuring her it had nothing to do with her, and that you are glad to be free of that but you concede it hurt her and for that, you are very sorry, etc. would be a good thing.
Expect nothing in return of course. This will not change her mind. Best case scenario is that over time as she sees your changes and as you cement them and make sure they are real for you, that letter might be a brick that goes into the relationship you two rebuild. She'll know that at least THAT issue isn't going to haunt your new R...
Good luck
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
25, though your response was to alamo, it also helps me as I was wondering many of the same things. My original thought was to 'list out' the ways I hurt the relationship, apologize for each of them separately, and give to W for her bday or anniversary of our S. I'm glad I held off, as I think it would dredge up too many things. When W mentions specific things I've done wrong, I've been (I think) very good at apologizing, if not also validating.
I think my motivation for all of this is that W is the type that holds onto her pain and never lets it go. She has mentioned things I've done wrong years ago, which I've apologized for again and again. I have to keep reminding myself that I can't 'fix' her, so if she continues to hold pain and grudges and can't learn to forgive it's her issue and not necessarily mine.
Me 43 W 38 M 5 T 7 SD20 S15, S13 with 1st W ILYBNILWY June 2010 Separation/Bomb July 2010 Divorce Feb 8, 2011
I hear you. The "valid" thing for some people to claim is that by recalling those painful events, somehow reminding you of them reduces the chance of them happening again. Their concern can be valid in that the real objection SOME of the grudge holders have, is fear that they'll be hurt again. If you don't seem to take it seriously and lump some grievous injury with a list of small infractions, they might think you really don't get it, and therefore she's going to be hurt again...so you have to reassure.
That's only true if you never owned up to it though, and even then I'd argue they're wasting their lives with the list of grievances.
Maybe if one of those opportunities arises again, you can ask your w if she recalls you addressing it before and apologizing for it and thus, you might ask, what else can you do for her now? If you have changed, then that data is no longer relevant and you can't spend the rest of your life stuck in the past when the future is looking so much brighter.
If you wronged her, own that, admit it, apologize for it, tell her what you learned and would do differently and then say, "that's all I can do about that." If she wants to rehash it you have to stop that after it has been explored already. I mean, can you ask her if the thinks you have amnesia? If you recall the event and apologized and won't repeat that mistake, the only thing left is some physical torture or perhaps a scarlet letter on your forehead???? Geez, enough.
If your w thinks you are insincere, there's not much to do about that but be consistent with your changes, over time. Those are the ingredients to success but it's not a a guarantee.
Forgiveness is not about whether someone deserves it. It's about not being trapped by it. Half the time we feel pain abvout something long ago, and we hold onto it, but the "perpetrator" doesn't even know it. They moved on so we gain NOTHING by holding onto our grudges. IT's as if we have given so much power to them they didn't even want and we wallowed in pain that much longer than needed. Self inflicted.
Good luck
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
Forgiveness is not about whether someone deserves it. It's about not being trapped by it. Half the time we feel pain abvout something long ago, and we hold onto it, but the "perpetrator" doesn't even know it. They moved on so we gain NOTHING by holding onto our grudges. IT's as if we have given so much power to them they didn't even want and we wallowed in pain that much longer than needed. Self inflicted.
He who angers you conquers you.
BITS
Happiness is not something ready made. It comes from your own actions.
That's a good one CS. I also heard this the other day:
Staying angry at someone to punish them, is like lighting yourself on fire to get smoke in their eyes...
9, fyi, it took work for me to learn how to forgive. I wasn't raised seeing it. It's a learned skill and it takes time and work. But like my signature says, it frees you.
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
Need your input/feedback: Last month, my wife and I agreed that I would help pay the monthly payments pf one of her credit cards 50:50. I've paid once and today she sent me a second bill via e-mail. Except this time, she added a second AND third credit card that we never discussed about. On top of that she decides to include the cost of our son's diapers, which she never did before. The reason I agreed to pay the first credit card was that a lot of the charges were incurred during my time of unemployment over the last 6 years. So now she assumes she can do the same for her other CCs. Note that their charges were incurred under similar circumstances, but the fact that she ASSUMED and did not discuss it with me is wrong. This is what I want to respond to her, so please feel free to chime in with your comments:
"Thanks. It would have been also proper if you brought up the Chase and Amex cards when we were discussing BOA the last time round. And are we sharing the cost of our son's supplies now as well, such as diapers, wipes, food, clothing, etc? Let me know.
Alamo"
I'm not sure if I should add somewhere in there that "I refuse to make those additional payments until you can provide me with a breakdown of what should rightfully pay and what isn't." What do you think?
In terms of our son's costs -- we currently split daycare. During our separation (but before my wife moved out). I bought our son's diapers, wipes, food -- the expendable items. When she moved out with our son, she took over the diapers and perhaps 3 meals a week for him. I pay for wipes, dinner 6 day days a week, as well as a lunch and breakfast. This was a non-issue until today. My guess she's running low on money (or trying to stretch her savings out) and decides to sneak these items in w/o first talking to me. Either she assumes I will bend over backwards because I don't want an ugly divorce (financially), or she's getting advice from her divorced best friend, or both.
Take CountrySong's advice and discuss the other debts. BUT quibbling about any of the costs of your son is beneath you. Don't measure out meals and diapers and such or you'll look very small. Besides, the person who has the child the most ends up paying for things the other parent never thinks of, like increased utilities and a bigger apartment and gas for trips to the store and blah blah blah. Don't even go there. Besides, you were unemployed for some time and if she wanted to get nit picky she could go down that road and you don't want that. Plus I don't know who earns more and how long she was unemployed, if at all.
Being a good provider may sound out of date with today's feminism. But it does still matter to women, especially when children are involved. I think it's almost biological and I liken it to caveman days.
When the male goes out to hunt, we stay behind with the baby and hope he brings home meat. We also want to be safe in the cave and if there are holes in the wall, we want them fixed. When the hunter comes home he wants the child (whom he presumes is his) to be cared for and for both of them to be welcoming. When the man comes back without meat or food he gathered, they go hungry and he has "lost" for the day. When he brings the meat home, there is shared pride. Similarly the child growing well and being happy is the mother's main pride and yet it is shared too. A sick child eats at her. At a deep primal level, I think there is some truth to this.
So let this guide you in how you handle your w. Don't be a doormat but don't quibble or sweat the small stuff. She's watching you. Be fair and calmly resolve this.
The better you two work this out, the more hope there is that you can work things out maritally. But as for your son, I would not be measuring out things for him. Cover him. He's yours.
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
Take CountrySong's advice and discuss the other debts. BUT quibbling about any of the costs of your son is beneath you. Don't measure out meals and diapers and such or you'll look very small. Besides, the person who has the child the most ends up paying for things the other parent never thinks of, like increased utilities and a bigger apartment and gas for trips to the store and blah blah blah. Don't even go there. Besides, you were unemployed for some time and if she wanted to get nit picky she could go down that road and you don't want that. Plus I don't know who earns more and how long she was unemployed, if at all.
Originally Posted By: 25yearsmlc
I am absolutely sure I spend more on our son than she does -- house, expendables, insurance, etc. And I don't have an issue with paying for it, but what I question and have a beef with is her principles. She had told me she would take over things like diapers, but out of the blue she e-mails me the cost for diapers this past month? I think that's just rude and presumptuous, especially for someone who's wanting to go the prim and proper way of divorce. Also, my wife has been a student since 2002, with the occasional part-time jobs in-between. She has been completely concentrating on medical school, motherhood (took a year off), and has school loans as one source of income (besides mine). You are right 25, my wife is actually being nit-picky. The reason why I'm paying for her BOA card is for that reason: she says that I am responsible for all the charges due to my unemployment periods over the years. She added a couple more thousand to that when she decided to leave the house -- am I responsible for that? No. Last year, I had quoted her the amount she says that I "took" from her cards and loans over the 6 years (excluding the cost of tuition and school-related expenses, of course) was compensated 4 times over by my salary from my last job alone. She said baloney, so I left it at that. And now she pulls this stunt.
[quote=25yearsmlc] So let this guide you in how you handle your w. Don't be a doormat but don't quibble or sweat the small stuff. She's watching you. Be fair and calmly resolve this.
The better you two work this out, the more hope there is that you can work things out maritally. But as for your son, I would not be measuring out things for him. Cover him. He's yours.
I do feel like I'm being used. I paid for all his things before and during our separation, but now that she CHOOSES to take our son to HER home with the assumption that she is the PRIMARY caregiver, she still wants me to split 50:50? What the beegads?
