For Many Worries

[Truegritter]

You are being called out for giving advice without showing where you are coming from.

That is the politically correct version.

I think I know where you are coming from.

BUT

Here is your opportunity on your own thread to talk about it.

There is an odd dichotomy with Dbing. One on hand we like to pound our chest and say we stand for marriage and we want to save our marriage. It's at the bottom of every page. But on the other hand, we acknowledge that we are really here to save ourselves. Those ideals aren't always compatible.

Could it be you have not realized this yet?

STANDING gives you time to find yourself.

You are certainly welcome to move on quickly onto the bus for Bitterville if you choose. No one is forcing you to be here and work on yourself.

Not doing so IMO will make any saving of your M shortlived so they are inveritably linked. Saving yourself and your M.

Funny though, many of the 'experts' here are people who couldn't save their Ms, even if they followed DB to a T. They try to rationalize the failure by saying "'Well I saved myself.'

Ah there's the rub. Well I will tell you only from own experience.

I haven't saved my M.

My W is a survivor of childhood sexual abuse.. Trouble is she is not surviving yet.

And I likely won't be the dude who is there when she realizes that.

How did I come to that wisdom for myself?

By being here.

And listening to people who took an interest in me.

Could I have said my W is f@cked up and moved on? I didn't need to come here to make that choice. I came here because that WAS my choice and I wanted to understand a different path.

DB seems to have a direct principles on affairs - i.e. tolerate them, do nothing, wait for them to fizzle on their own. This is a form of emotional abuse, IMO

Only if you decide you will let someone else ruin your life.

My expereince: You cannot control another person.

Alcoholic to Angel.

You want to talk about emotional abuse?

Put your faith in that false hope.

Anda good luck touya.

[InAPickle]

There came a time, when I realized that there was nothing I could do to reverse to tide of marital destruction and that W was bound and determined to be free of the M. I could have let the emotional toll propel me to "bittersville" or I could drag myself "outside" of the sitch, sorta like out of darkness and into sunlight.

I had two beautiful children to think about. They deserved none of this. They didn't deserve a broken home. It was going to be my decision and mine alone.

I had seen bittersville first hand personified in my MIL. She ditched her M while W was still in HS. Then like a fool signed papers relinquishing any legal claim to H's military retirement, which she had every right to. Her family history of depression didn't help and coupled with a dose of paranoia (everyone hates me) drove her to a very unhappy and unhealthy twilight. She now lives in a retirement community estranged from her only D.

I could have layed down the so-called "boundaries" regarding W's EA/PA, which is a violation that tore at my very soul (some of you can identify) but to throw the mother of my kids to the curb seemed rash, and intuition/instinct/fear said it was out of the question. Anger and bounderies and such also seemed at the time like a path to self righteousness and bittersville. I knew I contributed to the sitch; I knew I fvcked up. When I thought of my WAW, something inside me said, "There but for the grace of God go I."

Yes, even - fear - played a role in my journey, fear the children would blame me, because I couldn't reveal W's secrets, fear of econimic hardship for them and me, fear of a court battle and that I might be the one to lose the home and have to move away. All these things played havoc with my mind and emotions.

Advice from this board and my atty and many, many hours in the chapel helped dispel the fears. Then one day I did emerge in the sunlight, knowing full well that neither home nor away I had no control over W or her activities, thoughts or desires. I kinda just shrugged her off and slowley but surely she became just a live in nanny. Yes, I've got some huge brick walls built in front of me, but they've saved me from the cycle of emotional dependency: "If neither foes nor living friends can hurt you.." (Kipling)

If she ever comes out of her fog, will I be able to reconcile. It's gonna take long, long time for both of us; much damage has been done; much repair will be required. I sure don't want her the way she is. Actions speak very loudly and her's trumpet: no respect for me or marriage vows or the authority of our church; no hope of saving the M; no vision of a future with yours truly; only bucket lists and the single life.

Maybe ten years from now, we'll sit and have a cup of coffee together, and she'll admit the grass wasn't greener; who knows?

The question about DB'ing is not about seeing immediate results toward saving a floundering marriage. It's about healing: healing people and healing relationships. Every sitch is a different sitch; sometimes there are miracles, and sometimes there aren't. Like I said above: much damage requires much repair. You either have to keep plugging or you move on to something else. DB'ing in the end is your decision.

[ninelives]

Wow nice post pickle , nice reminder about what ding is about. My friend 2step does that constantly and I hope it really sinks in some day.

Great job.

[Many worries]

There came a time, when I realized that there was nothing I could do to reverse to tide of marital destruction and that W was bound and determined to be free of the M. I could have let the emotional toll propel me to "bittersville" or I could drag myself "outside" of the sitch, sorta like out of darkness and into sunlight.

I had two beautiful children to think about. They deserved none of this. They didn't deserve a broken home. It was going to be my decision and mine alone.

I had seen bittersville first hand personified in my MIL. She ditched her M while W was still in HS. Then like a fool signed papers relinquishing any legal claim to H's military retirement, which she had every right to. Her family history of depression didn't help and coupled with a dose of paranoia (everyone hates me) drove her to a very unhappy and unhealthy twilight. She now lives in a retirement community estranged from her only D.

I could have layed down the so-called "boundaries" regarding W's EA/PA, which is a violation that tore at my very soul (some of you can identify) but to throw the mother of my kids to the curb seemed rash, and intuition/instinct/fear said it was out of the question. Anger and bounderies and such also seemed at the time like a path to self righteousness and bittersville. I knew I contributed to the sitch; I knew I fvcked up. When I thought of my WAW, something inside me said, "There but for the grace of God go I."

Yes, even - fear - played a role in my journey, fear the children would blame me, because I couldn't reveal W's secrets, fear of econimic hardship for them and me, fear of a court battle and that I might be the one to lose the home and have to move away. All these things played havoc with my mind and emotions.

Advice from this board and my atty and many, many hours in the chapel helped dispel the fears. Then one day I did emerge in the sunlight, knowing full well that neither home nor away I had no control over W or her activities, thoughts or desires. I kinda just shrugged her off and slowley but surely she became just a live in nanny. Yes, I've got some huge brick walls built in front of me, but they've saved me from the cycle of emotional dependency: "If neither foes nor living friends can hurt you.." (Kipling)

If she ever comes out of her fog, will I be able to reconcile. It's gonna take long, long time for both of us; much damage has been done; much repair will be required. I sure don't want her the way she is. Actions speak very loudly and her's trumpet: no respect for me or marriage vows or the authority of our church; no hope of saving the M; no vision of a future with yours truly; only bucket lists and the single life.

Maybe ten years from now, we'll sit and have a cup of coffee together, and she'll admit the grass wasn't greener; who knows?

The question about DB'ing is not about seeing immediate results toward saving a floundering marriage. It's about healing: healing people and healing relationships. Every sitch is a different sitch; sometimes there are miracles, and sometimes there aren't. Like I said above: much damage requires much repair. You either have to keep plugging or you move on to something else. DB'ing in the end is your decision.

I'd read your situation and all I can say is good luck.

but tell me what kind of example are you setting for those beautiful children? You and your M ,for better or worse, will be their guides on how they run relationships for the REST OF THEIR lives. Are you content to give them a bad example? Are you content to show that that the marriage bonds/vows really mean nothing because you allow the EA/PA to continue? Are you content to show then that love, respect, honestly, communication aren't required in a marriage and the only thing that makes a marriage is staying in the same house and being civil.

Lastly, are you okay with your children having the same kinda of marriage you have now, just because you didn't want to rock the boat? Are you okay with your children having the pain you are going through and have gone through or inflicting it on another?

Because you are showing them each and every day that kind of marriage is okay.

Don't believe me? Why do you kids who see/experience abuse are more likely to abuse? It's learned behavior. you kids learn from you.

[Jack_Three_Beans]

I am willing to bet that Many Worries is moderated.
Which makes this one-sided and unfair.

[Jack_Three_Beans]

Awesome post Pickle.

[JustStunned]

Which makes this one-sided and unfair.

JTB, agreed, but there are gems here from TG and Pickle for me and I suspect many others.

I read this as TG’s thread so I do not think of this as a thread jack.

In my sitch much of the drama projected at me is related from W’s childhood. I share responsibility in creating the environment for it to fester and grow, but I am not responsible for the source. That occurred years before I met W.

This does not alter our present reality. If I was clairvoyant I would have changed the environment years ago and prevented this mess. Looking back much of this was preventable.

I am not clairvoyant, and what if’ing the past further is a waste of my energy.

I can only move myself forward from here. Like TG and Pickle I know there are no guarantees. To put it in the vernacular of this site “I am standing”, but I will not stand still, waiting.

I will move myself forward. I will maintain open mature contact with family and friends. I will work to be a better person for this experience.

[dbmod]

I am willing to bet that Many Worries is moderated.
Which makes this one-sided and unfair.

Yes, Jack.

[InAPickle]

I'd read your situation and all I can say is good luck.

but tell me what kind of example are you setting for those beautiful children? You and your M ,for better or worse, will be their guides on how they run relationships for the REST OF THEIR lives. Are you content to give them a bad example? Are you content to show that that the marriage bonds/vows really mean nothing because you allow the EA/PA to continue? Are you content to show then that love, respect, honestly, communication aren't required in a marriage and the only thing that makes a marriage is staying in the same house and being civil.

Lastly, are you okay with your children having the same kinda of marriage you have now, just because you didn't want to rock the boat? Are you okay with your children having the pain you are going through and have gone through or inflicting it on another?

Because you are showing them each and every day that kind of marriage is okay.

Don't believe me? Why do you kids who see/experience abuse are more likely to abuse? It's learned behavior. you kids learn from you.

I usually avoid discussions or defense of my posts on this forum, but I am making an exception here to clarify some assumptions.

#1. We no longer have a marriage, we're officially divorced. The kid's know this.

#2. I have not told the children about the affair. D17 may suspect something, but I doubt S12 does. And in the final agreement neither spouse is to badmouth the other to the children. I signed it.

#3. I do not have the power to "allow" anything W does. She'll do what she wills whether we live together or not. With that, the kids are more comfortible with their mother around - temporarily of course - and I have determined they will be better off in the long run.

#4 I do have a small boundery regarding OM. He is also married and cheating. He lives in Ohio; we are in FL. He never comes around here, W goes to see him. If that were to change, she knows she'd have to move out; I've made that clear.

#5 Nobody knows what kind of marriage my kids will wind up having, not even you. When they are older, my kids will know I did my best to keep the family together during their minor years under extremly trying circumstances.

One way or ther other the ex-spousal co-habitation will be temporary. It's just a phase.