85 Days

[Denver_2010]

Denver, it seems like you were in a tough spot tonight, nothing you could do would made it any better, and you handled yourself pretty well. It seems like that during the db process, we start to "agree" with everything the WAS says in order to validate, but at some point, like tonight for you, it is just not realistic. I think you made several good points with your W that she probably needed to hear.
Your W tells you you are too strict, but you don't stand up for her with SS. What are you supposed to do with that. Maybe just realize that she is very confused right now. How is OM any sort of father figure for your SS when you are the one who has been in his life. I think you did well with that, bc I probably would have lost it.

And I know how much it hurts what your SS said about moving home, but kids will say anything to hurt somebody when they are hurting.

Like I said, you did pretty well tonight given everything that happened.

Islander... you hit the nail on the head with your post. All of it. Thank you for understanding.

BITS
Denver

[Denver_2010]

I'm having a very difficult day today. W texted me this morning to see if I could 'lend' her some money so that she doesn't overdraw her account. I asked her how much and told her that I would. She was on her way to a funeral and I was getting ready to leave town for work. I told her that I would come by her place on my way out of town and leave her a check.

When I got to her place I snooped. It is not the first time that I've had the opportunity, but it is the first time that I have succumb to the temptation.

There was nothing suggesting that OM is playing any more of a role in my situation than what W has admitted to me... no signs that he has been around or anything like that.

But in her room, I found a couple of cards and a poem that he has given her over the past few months.

One card was from Valentine's Day and the other was a sympathy card regarding her grandmother's death. And then there was the poem.

All of this was on a dresser in her room.

The cards were nothing much... the only thing about them that struck me were that they were signed, 'love, OM' and 'your's always and forever, OM'. I find it disturbing, but also somewhat childish that OM signs the cards that he gives W as if he has had some long R with her. At best, he was 'dating' W for 8 whole weeks. At best.

The poem was like a knife going through my heart. It described how his R with my W went from being friends, to talking on the phone for hours, to having dinner with her, to dancing in the kitchen, to kissing her... and finally to how she ended it with him.

The poem was left with something that must have had some significance bw he and W... it was otherwise insignificant.... and one of SS's toys. A note attached to it said, "sorry that I'm returning this, but it reminds me of you when I see it lying around my house." The poem was in an envelope taped to it.

I'm not sure when this stuff to my W, but I'd be willing to bet a lot of money that it was left at my W's house for her sometime over the past 3-4 weeks. I say this, bc this is when W began to pull back from me significantly.

It disgusts me that this person ever thought it was okay to act the way that he did, the way that my W did, that was described in the poem. There was nothing explicit or anything like that. But the way that it was written was as if this R was bw two single people who found love in a very romantic way... NOT the reality that my W was, is, married...

The poem was well written and was romantic. I will admit that. But the content, the meaning, his intentions... are all such facades... such a fantasy.

It crushes me that my W cannot see the reality of what OM represented... and still represents.

On my drive out of town, something W said in one of our 2 MC sessions struck me. MC asked her how the last few months have felt to her. W said that they felt "like a vacation from my life" ... "like I have been living someone else's life" ...

Those words that my W spoke THAT day are the reality of the situation... And unfortunately, this is the reality of most situations where there is an A occurring. An affair usually represents an escape from reality... or as my W put it, "a vacation" from life.

Finding this poem has crushed my spirit today... at least temporarily. Why? Bc of what it drove home with me and the reality of MY situation... I represent real life for W ... real life that includes stress, bills, debts, responsibilities, hard work.

OM represents a fantasy... a vacation.

OM is dirt poor according to W, I am 'much cuter' than OM according to W, I "feel like home" according to W ... but I represent a much harder road where my W has a choice of 2. That is the bottom line.

It is difficult to compete with this.

So this explains some comments that W has made in the past 2 weeks. Comments that in some ways keep me going, but in some ways cause me to wonder if I should continue on: "I need time to process my feelings",

"Things are not going to happen on your timeline Denver",

"You want things to go back to the way that they were Denver, and I'm not ready for that yet",

"I need you to be patient", ...

"Denver, do you think that it would be a good thing for me to move back into our house when I still have feelings for OM... I don't think that it would"

"I need time... things will SORT THEMSELVES OUT." I still don't know WTF THAT means????

THESE comments represent my W being confused about having to choose between REAL f'ing life and a fantasy world...

It is why W is suddenly reminding me of how bad I was during our R/M... and of the reasons as to why she left... and

I believe, it is why she seems to almost be trying to recapture the feelings of anger and resentment that gave her strength to leave me back in November... It is why she has been snippy with me, rude to me, etc. It is as if she is trying to sabotage any chance that we have of reconciliation.

but... W came to me back in February wanting to talk about the possibility of reconciliations!! I did never pressured her for that. In fact, SHE texted me, at that time, "I don't understand why you haven't tried to fix things... or even brought up a conversation about it, Denver" ... that text message was a few days before we first talked about reconciliation...

NOW 2 months later, the idea of real life is so difficult for her to contemplate that she falls for fantasy b.s. that OM throws at her?

I simply don't understand it. I don't.

I get why she left me in the first place. But I do NOT get this.

------

Between the incident last night involving issues with SS and my snooping this morning, I've gotten myself pretty low today friends. I had an emotional meltdown about all of this on my drive this morning. I'm so tired of the roller coaster... but aren't we all?

I know that what I found today is JUST INFORMATION... it does NOT change anything about my situation... I need to keep reminding myself of this.

Cat... anyone... can someone please remind me that the pullback that i am seeing from my W is normal and is not something that I should be panicking about. Because I am.

I am not a religious man, but a song that I have relied upon today...

"When I find myself in times of trouble, mother Mary comes to me,
speaking words of wisdom, let it be.
And in my hour of darkness she is standing right in front of me,
speaking words of wisdom, let it be.

Let it be, let it be, let it be, let it be.
Whisper words of wisdom, let it be.

And when the broken hearted people living in the world agree,
there will be an answer, let it be.
For though they may be parted there is still a chance that they will see,
there will be an answer. let it be.

Let it be, let it be, .....

And when the night is cloudy, there is still a light, that shines on me,
shine until tomorrow, let it be.
I wake up to the sound of music, mother Mary comes to me,
speaking words of wisdom, let it be.

Let it be, let it be, ..... "

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0714IbwC3HA


This is all I can do.

BITS
Denver

[♪CS♪]

Well Denver, I cannot say that curiosity would not have gotten the better of me as well. Sometimes we need to protect ourselves from ourselves.

So what did you learn from it?

As far as I can tell NOTHING.

You new about OM already.

You already new her other life was a fantasy.

You new that your W is confused.

So what did you do?

You hurt YOU.

Like I said, no high horse here. I probably would have done the same thing. I would have also made myself miserable for no good reason. Why? Humans are a strange breed…

[Jack_Three_Beans]

In Nov 05 My wife, 'needed time alone.'
She slept with the OM in the hotel she stayed at.
I had Thanksgiving dinner alone with my boys.

In Dec 05 she was staying at a friends house. The evening of the school play with our boys, we sat and talked and I thought everything was great. She just needed time. Later that evening her mother drove past the OM's house and saw her there called her out and guilted her into coming home.
Oh we had a fight that night.

Early January I found a similar note in her Jeep. We fought again, I wanted her : ) to have her space, she stayed with her friend again. Talked to her every now and then.

I thought we were doing better. I remember talking to her about our future together on a walk-way bridge over a creek.

End of May 06 She went on a vacation, to California and then to Colorado, I knew the OM was going to be there with her for a week. I figured this would be the last goodbye thing. When I discovered I was mistaken, I removed all her things from the apartment and put them into storage.

We fought on the phone.

Late April 06 She came home we started talking nicely again, I helped her find an apartment. Later we talked about me moving in with her. We talked about her ending it with OM and working on being married. Set a date of June 15th.

On June 16th 06I see his car outside her place. I confront them both. They were interuppted apparently 'good-bye' sex. : ) uh-huh.

I let her know exactly how I felt.
"Bills or Boys"

Sept 16th 06 She called and litterally begged for another chance.
I told her I needed to think about it.
I did and told her that if she was serious then she would be waiting for me on my porch when I got home from work on Friday and if not, have a good life.
She was there decided to make a go of it. Piecing, right? I let her end it with OM her way as long as her way involves very specific boundaries I have established.

Oct 31st 06, she decides we should be friends, I say OK. Ask her if she would rather I do not show up at the club she is bar-backing for, she says no would like that. Turns out she didn't like me dancing with a cute pirate chick. I say ummm we are friends right? BIG FIGHT.

Ups and downs and normal?

Normal for me Denver.

That poem you found?

Never underestimate the power of a hurt puppy. Never think this guy is going to be honorable, never think you're going to 'show' her he is a scumbag.

And now the good news, the silver lining.

It didn't end with:

"Roses are red, Violets are Blue;
I'm so happy I get the rest of my life with you!"

It ended with her ending it with him.


Oh yeah that lovey dovey stuff? [censored] when you see someone else sending it to you wife.

[2stepboogie]

Ok so you snooped? I would prob have done the same thing. I know it is just information but it sure does hurt doesn't it? Look Denver,W is going to do what W is going to do. There really is little you can do about it. You can continue on, and I suggest you do or you can let this determine how to proceed. In my opinion that would be a mistake.


When my boss would ask me "how the hell did you get that done?" I would say 'don't ask question to which you don't want to know the answers' I would caution you against the same thing even though the temptation is huge. At best you confirmed what W has been telling you she had a R with him and he is not completely out of her life yet. Did you make any new discoveries? I didn't see any?


Now you have allowed this to define your day and your emotions, for what purpose? I say this while admitting that I might have fallen to the same temptation while I was M.


Her phrases are words I've heard before and sound very familiar to me but they are just words and while they are a sign that she opening up to u a little they are by no means a measure or indication of how you should feel.


I strongly believe that love is a choice you make and if you make it you do it regardless of how the other person feels or reacts towards you because you have made the choice to love them. You love the person regardless of the way they feel about you. This is extremely difficult to do because when we feel the other person is not returning our love we immediately recoil or lash out but it is at this time that you grow and learn to really learn the definition of loving someone, remember if love is a choice what she is doing, saying or thinking holds no value to how you treat her because YOU have chosen to love her.


Loving someone who is not loving you goes against our natural tendencies. If you claim to be ok with W and OM then you are being hypocritical (I know u haven't) but if we look at love as our actions towards them instead of what we say then you are really doing something for them because you love them and that is your choice. You are not saying something because you think it's what they want to hear you are doing something for their benefit and that is the choice to love them through actions and not words. You don't have to be a doormat or agree with everything W says and you don't have to have a warm and fuzzy about what she does but you can do loving ACTS because that is what you have chosen to do. Now u hope that along the way the love is given back but it does not matter if she does or not because YOU have chosen to love her through actions and at the very least you can be proud of the way you have handled yourself.


As far as the OM he has done as much as W has allowed him to do and yes life with you is reality and life with him is a fantasy. He filled an emotional gap you did not and that is hard to walk away from but her love for you must be huge if after feeling euphoric with OM she is has stopped her R with him and has moved closer to you whether you see it or not. It certainly was more than I can say for my own sitch.


We all know that reality sinks in sooner or later for all us including our WAS some will regret it and some will not, that is just plain truth. I think, and this is just my opinion, a lot of their regret will be based on 1. The M/R they had with you 2. How you handled yourself after the split up.


Both you and I have admitted some of the same mistakes but neither you nor I can go back and correct them but we can start today and works towards a better tomorrow. You still have that chance, a chance a lot of us would love to have. Some of us have lost that for many reasons.


Praying for U

[dbmod]

Worries-

You are being called out for giving advice without showing where you are coming from. No one is required to post their story first, but it helps folks to know where you're coming from.

Moderators here have NEVER posted fake stories here to make the site seem more active. I'm sure there are people who do that here, but we don't monitor that. We only moderate for our rules.



We are here to DB, to help folks save their marriages / relationships. The BEST help you can be is to share your story, what worked, what hasn't worked--not judge or evaluate someone's situation on a meta-level. The ONLY experts here are Michele and her coaches.

[cat04]

Denver,

It's normal.

Seeing the evidence scuks. So stop looking for it.

One day, shortly after one of my many bombs, my H, who was NOT, I repeat, NOT having an A, started wearing a bracelet. One that I had not seen ever in our life together. He said he found it in a box in his dresser.

Let me tell you, I didn't buy it for one minute. I had been doing this man's laundry and cleaning his stuff for fifteen years. And I was the ONLY one doing if for fifteen years. Even before we lived together. I knew what was in every box in his dresser.

At first, that bracelet, was like a knife in my chest every day. Because I knew where it had come from. Eventually, it just became a part of this man that isn't the man that I had married.

He still wears it. He is (I think, reconciled) with the woman that gave it to him. It doesn't hurt anymore. It is now, simply a reminder of someone I don't know very well.

Hopefully, that isn't something that you will have to see with your W. Hopefully, you will be able to put the poem out of your mind.

Stop snooping. The next time you feel curious, go touch a hot burner on the stove and then go get your hand bandaged. It won't hurt as much.

Right now, you are in a position of your own making.

For that, my sympathy is low.

I know people say that it is the "doormat" approach, but I will never believe that avoiding things that cause us pain and discomfort that we don't need to suffer is being a doormat.

Let her have her space. It is normal for them to pull back and if you keep pushing, you are going to push her even further away.

I thought your plan was to focus on Denver...

Did this fit into that plan at all?

[cat04]

Cat -DB seems to have a direct principles on affairs - i.e. tolerate them, do nothing, wait for them to fizzle on their own.

This is a form of emotional abuse, IMO

What if your S woke up every day and screamed at your for 20 minutes solid, in front of your kids. Told you how worthless you are, told you how ugly you are, swore, stomped ,etc (but didn't get physical) Would you tolerate that? Would you say 'Well I can't control another person, so I just have to wait it out.' Would you still believe "They make mistakes just like every other human being on earth." Would you say, the only thing I can do is chose how I handle the hurt, anger, resentment and disappointment caused by this yelling.

I hope you God you wouldn't but this is what affairs are to our Ms.

No I would not tolerate any sort of direct and blatant abuse, without a clear and no holds barred, if that happens again...

Which I did...

However, more subtle forms of emotional abuse, yes, I tolerated them. Until I could no longer... Until I allowed them to ruin me, my self esteem, my thoughts about myself...

That was my behavior to own. My reactions to his behaviors. I could have done it differently.

While the A, can be considered a form of abuse, it is how we handle it that is what is important IMO.

I could destroy his reputation with family and friends, but then I would be abusive as well...

Or I can set the boundary, if you are with her, you aren't with me...

While that seems much less proactive, really it is very proactive in keeping the road home paved and swept...

While no one is required to post their story, mine is on here in bits and pieces, but not in one lump thread that I can remember (wait, I did eventually post a synopsis many months after I started posting) it is harder not to challenge the hard line approach that sort of came through in your posts.

Also, if you post your story, even in small bits, it does help people help you. Get their thoughts out there, etc...

[~¤DG¤~]

2 step and cat-you both gave excellent advice to Denver, advice I am going to take as well.

[LearningPatience]

Denver, I feel for everything you are going through as our sitches are similar. I still 'touch the burner' with snooping, but very infrequently now. I guess I figured out pain hurts

One of the hardest things I've ever dealt with was seeing the ILY from OM to W on her cell phone. That was last summer and I don't know if he's ever said it again because I stopped looking. Thankfully, W has told me she doesn't love OM, but really it doesn't matter as it doesn't change anything I need to do.

BTW, Let It Be is one of my favourite songs and was part of a 'mix tape' cd collection I made for W in the early days of our problems. I think the mix tape idea was more for me to process things than for her, but still...