Journal entry: weekend I agree with the teenager remark, my ic had dawned on that earlier, and he even suggested I do what parents need to do and set boundaries. It wasn't until I found my inner strength with NMMNG that I actually started setting them. Not just that but I have also realized that as a teenager some life lessons she will just have to learn on her own. Hopefully things won't get ruined because of it.
So the weekend was kind of a mixed bag....We got a room for the both of us.....That evening when we got to the hotel she seemed a little annoyed, I knew it was the long ride, so I left her alone. After about 30 minutes she started reaching out to me, and making conversation and showing me things on her phone. I paid attention to her, and we started joking around, next thing I know we were full on play wrestling on one of the beds. It was a lot of fun, and it was nice to hold her that close. (Even if it was a gentle bear hug)
....She playfully said you sure you want to go? At this time I was holding her down from behind with my arms wrapped around hers and my legs coiled around her. I just said no not yet, and held her down for a few more minutes. (where I was holding her down, it felt more like we were holding each other. I also think she liked being held down, by that big tough guy she forgot I am). I left to see my parents...
...Saturday morning was very nice too, got up, got ready, went to starbucks and brought her coffee. She was very grateful. She seemed very happy, and very loving.
...The next morning I woke up and started getting ready for mother's day brunch. She still hadn't arrived from the other side yet, and I was very concerned. Also check out was at noon, and I had to be with my parents by 11. I was worried about her not making it back in time for checkout. (Well worried, and mad). Well she didn't make it back till 11:30 on sunday morning. (She said something about a 2 hour wait time at the bridge, ok believable). I replied with short texts, that were more logistical than anything. About 30 mins before checkout I got a text telling me that she needed help getting the stuff to the car. I asked her why, she said she wasn't in shape for it. (IE too hung over, and sick from last night). I said I couldn't leave my mom on mother's day.
She then sent me a series of UGLY text messages. Saying I HAD to go help her, with a couple of nasty adjectives. I excused myself and gave her a quick call. She answered, and she could instantly tell my tone was not happy. She asked if I was ok, then I told her I did not appreciate what she wrote in the texts, and to never do that again. She quickly apologized and tried to say that she thought I wanted an easy out (to get away from my parents), and thought that those ugly messages would help. I told her that yes I had asked earlier to help me come out with an excuse in case things dragged on too long with my parents. (My parents have made me miss plane flights in the past because they hang on soo much, so it's not as inconsiderate as it sounds). I made a point of telling her though, that her demanding I leave, made me sound whipped and I was not going to do that. I emphasized that I was not leaving mother's day brunch, until it was over. After some discussion she told me it would be ok, and would somehow manage.
She later asked what she should do while waiting for me, I suggested she go to a store and hang out, that it wasn't going to be long. She said she was in no shape to do that, but would figure it out. A few minutes later she told me she was hanging out with a friend. I said no prob time to be with my family. We set up a time to meet.
I said good bye to my family,(won't be seeing them for a very long time). Then headed to the agreed spot. When I arrived on time, she called to tell me she would be 45 mins late because she was on the other side of town. (I thought to myself, sureeee.....) I figure she wanted to make me wait, like I did to her. Well rather than get mad, I went and hung out at a local game store . When she got to the meeting spot, she called to ask where I was. I told her, oh I didn't want to wait in the car so I went to a local store to hang out. I'll be there in 5 mins.
......When I saw her, she looked very tired, and was even limping. This made me kinda mad, since it made me wonder how "wild" last night was. All I could tell myself was "trust her cousin, trust her cousin". I asked how the night had gone, she said she didn't want to talk about it. As you can imagine this made me more mad. I tried not to make a big deal, and see how long it took for her to say something. About 30 mins into the ride back she told me, a close friend they grew up with tried to "feel her up". I could tell by her reaction that her awkwardness was not from guilt, but from feeling violated.
....She asked what I was thinking I told her the truth. "If I would have been there I would have punched him the face, until he passed out"
I expected all sorts of crazy things to come from her. I expected her to say that I over protect her, or that she didn't need me protecting her, or even that I shouldnt get jealous and that she could do what she wanted. Bottomline I thought she was going to get real defensive over my feelings of protection.
Instead she just got quiet, and nodded in agreement. She then asked what she should do. I told her: Well we now know that this guy is untrustworthy when drunk, if I were you I'd never hang out with him again. She quietly agreed. Then I told her. "He is lucky he was drunk had he been sober, I'd be turning this car around to beat him black and blue" Her only response was: "I know you would"
As angry as the incident made me, I can see the silver lining. It was nice to be her knight in shining armor again, I think it was also a good reminder of how quickly crazy partying can go downhill. She was lucky to be around family that cared about her and would protect her. Even then a jerk, almost got his way.
After she got that out of her chest, she instantly started feeling better. She spend the rest of the car ride, trying to be cute and trying to get me not to be angry. The amount of positive attention she payed to me was nice.
Oh on a side note I casually lifted my sleeve past my shoulder, to scratch my deltoid. She quickly leaned in and gave my tricep a little lick. (I have swimmer's arms, not big but toned). I gave her a quick smile and tried not to make a big deal. She quickly asked in a cute voice "did you not appreciate that?" I told her "yes I did, I appreciated it a lot". The rest of the ride was very nice, when we got home we sat on the couch watching a little tv, she leaned her legs on mine, and curled up with me on the couch. Very nice....
Today too has gone very well, I got myself coffee and got her some too.
Unless I am totally dilusional I see this weekend as a plus. I stood up for myself, and while she had a bad experience hopefully it made me her appreciate me a little more. I hate that bad things like this have to happen, but sometimes it may be what is needed.
Going back to the whole teen thing, yes boundaries are needed, but somethings your teen just needs to learn on their own... I hope this is as bad as it gets.
Again, I think that you are a fast learner.
You seem to understand that "you" cannot change "her" and that all you can do is reinforce changes she chooses for herself and set an example for her that change is possible (by your GAL). So yes, some lessons she will just need to learn for herself. Also you need to set boundaries and she apparently needs to test boundaries.
He being with you this weekend, going and getting roaring drunk, telling you she got felt up, sending you ugly text messaes, making you wait, wrestling with you, being cute for you and kissing your arm are her trying to test boundaries both you have set and she has set. She is really trying to bounce off the walls to find out her she is emotionally. She is testing herself and you at the same time and not in a very organized way.
At some point in your setting a role model for your wife, you might want to tell her how helpful your ic has been to you (even embellish it a little bit) as a way of making her feel that maybe she should try some counseling.
My suggestion is to continue to give her emotional love and support. She appears to be looking to you for that emotional love more and more. Don't let her suck you into fighting with her. Above all, don't retaliate to her juvenville attempts to make you mad. If she does something you don't like, calmly and lovingly tell her what she did and why you feel it was wrong. Don't act out and try to get back at her. Rather than going to a store on the other side of town when she was late, I would have curled up with a good book in my car or at a place very near by and read.
I would also tone down the "I would have beat the @!*^# out of the guy" kind of comments. Similarly, as to her being late for the motel check out, I would have not worried about it and made it "her problem" to deal with if there was a late check-out.
With the sex therapist, one of the things that my wife did early in our therapy was refuse to do some of the "home work exercises" that the therapist had us do between sessions. At first I tried to push my wife into doing them, but the therapist told me not to. I was instructed that my wife had to learn to live with accepting the consequences of her actions or inactions. If my wife wanted to save our marriage ultimately she needed to do choose to do things that would help her. If she choose not to do exercises, then she was the one who would have to live with the consequences of a potential divorce. This tough love concept kept me from being sucked into fights with my wife, were she could then easily blame me for her problems. By not fighting over things, she had to weigh the reality that what she was choosing to do might result in things she didn't want to happen.
I agree that the weekend was mostly a plus. I think that she is emotionally reconnecting to you, little by little. You are doing well not to push for sex and emotional connection, which would likely push her away.
Keep up you GAL, she is noticing it and likes what she is seeing. Serve as a role model to her that change is possible. Let her know that you feel that counseling and reading certain books has helped you better understand yourself and her. Tell her that she is important to you. Tell her that if and when she ready, you would love for her to read some of the books that have helped you (5LL principally) and/or start joint marriage counseling with a sex therapist, as you "know" that would help her better understand herself and why she was thinking about a lesbian affair.
Tell yourself that you are a good man, who deserves the love of a good woman. Visualize being in a loving relationship. (Visualization can ehlp make things happen) Keep up your GAL. Set some goals for your relationship (but keep the time lines way out there as change takes more time than you expect--many months and not weeks). Keep giving her unconditional emotional love in her Languages of Love. Take care of your sexual needs, but remain faithful to her.
Good luck
>43 years of marriage--My wife and I are now closer than we have been in decades. I believe that my SSM is over.
This describes the state of mind that a lot of the WAS are in it seems, so many stories of returning spouses wanting to work it out but giving way less than 100%. It's like they come back to prove to themselves that it won't work, but get frustrated when things go so well, because it goes against their original plan. It can be so hard to reconcile what they say with how they act.
I think that she is and will continue to act out. I view it much like a teenager rebelling and bouncing off the walls. She really does sound like she has a MLC to some extent.
Your insight into WAS and feels so wrong to feel so right is very good! That explains a lot. Ultimately if you keep up the unconditional love, she may decide that the "feels so good" is too important to loose. I am sure that many WAS ultimately realize that if they truly leave, they may never again find that "it feels so good" in their life and they decide they need to change to capture and cement that part of their life.
Good luck.
>43 years of marriage--My wife and I are now closer than we have been in decades. I believe that my SSM is over.
When are you moving? Is it still a place you are looking forward to living in? If I recall, the plan was sort of putting interests, jobs or school off until you relocated there. How are the plans for that move coming along? What is her attitude about the move? (Any plans for her new life there? Like school, a job, etc)
Just thought I'd check in on that issue.
Still rooting for you but still hoping you don't put your needs on the shelf forever. Whatever her baggage is, doesn't mean your needs go unfilled indefinitely. You deserve to be loved like a husband. You are in counselling...at some point she will have to be. There's just no way that she's going to solve this multi-dimensional problem on her own. (No one could).
good luck
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
We are both thrilled about the move this is definitely our dream location. She has multiple job possibilities lined up, and I have lots GAL planned. It is going to be great.
Lately things have been good, she will have still lose her temper about once a day, this worries me as it feels that there might be a deeper issue involved. She particularly freaks out about her car. She is very protective of it, to the point of getting mad if I don't turn off the AC knobs in the exact sequence. She has stricter procedures than a space shuttle launch. This has always been an issue as she is hyper protective of her stuff. To the point of getting furious over little things such as a turn signal left on after turning off the car. Since we are down to one car I use hers a lot know which has led to some fights, about me not taking care of her things.
I think it may be a childhood issue, she always said she had few things she could call her own, and the few things she did have always seemed to get taken or broken by a careless family member.
Other than that things have been pretty good even the flare ups mentioned before last no more than 15 - 20 mins. It's the intensity that worries me.
In other news since we are moving overseas were getting matching his and hers touring bikes. We are both very excited. It is a big investment, but I have decided that we can't live in D limbo forever, and we need to move forward with life. Hopefully this will help us do that. We need to invest in our relationship.
....I think it may be a childhood issue, she always said she had few things she could call her own, and the few things she did have always seemed to get taken or broken by a careless family member.
...In other news since we are moving overseas were getting matching his and hers touring bikes.
...It is a big investment, but I have decided that we can't live in D limbo forever, and we need to move forward with life.
You are probably right that she has some childhood issues, we all do.
As to matching touring bikes, because you said they are a big investment, I am assuming that you are talking about motorcycles and not bicyles.
If so, I want to strongly suggest that you and she get some "motorcycle riding instruction." Not only will it lower your insurance costs, but it just might save her life or yours.
Let me be specific. New motorcycle riders are a significant danger to themselves. There are lots of studies that show this.
You may have lots of hours of riding time under your belt, but does she? If she doesn't, it could be really easy for her to dump the bike and get injured. If you care for her have the two of you take some instruction on how to ride touring bikes and how to drive defensively on them.
If you were talking about bicyles, I apologize for my assumption.
>43 years of marriage--My wife and I are now closer than we have been in decades. I believe that my SSM is over.
Young at heart... I was talking about bycicles but that's no big deal. On the other hand after reading, your post and re-reading mine I realized that things are going pretty well. It's nice to be able to talk about other things besides the usual stuff we post here. I hope this continues, and we can keep moving forward.
Yes, things sound like they are going better for you, but I also think that it will be a multi-month (maybe multi-year) roller coaster ride that will not end until at least a few months after you and your wife get some joint-counseling.
Keep up your GAL and reading! Make your wife feel loved in her languages of love (that, not getting sucked into fights by my wife, and GAL were the three most important lessions I learned).
>43 years of marriage--My wife and I are now closer than we have been in decades. I believe that my SSM is over.
GB90 - As I catch up on your sitch and read the comments you leave on mine, I can tell that you are learning a great deal. You really have come a long way. I commend you for your efforts, reading, and your persistence. The results are obvious.
What are you going to do about you IC when you move?
Me - 33 W - 33 S - 9 months M - 3 years T - 5.5 years Bomb - 12/14/10 ILYBNILWY PA discovered - 1/18/11 PA began - 3/22/10 Separated
Ok, so we are both very excited about the move, we can't wait. We keep talking about all the things that we will do. I just dropped close to 4k on two bicycles, so we can get around. (Where we are going cars are really a nuisance).
While at the shop, the guy said we would get a lot of use for the bikes where we are going, and even more afterwards. I said well afterwards I could try to get us overseas again. She got really excited at this idea, I would like that too.
Things were going great, and we went out to dinner. While at dinner I start talking about what we could do 3 years down the line to make sure we get a good duty station. Things were going well, until she said "I don't want to talk about this anymore, I just don't want to get your hopes up. I don't know right now if were going to make it that far, so I'd rather not think about it."
OUCH!
I should have known better, I guess. With all the excitement, we have been both feeling about the near future, I guess I got a little carried away and started talking about the far future. I initiated future and R talk without realizing it. (doh!)
It was also a big reminder of how difficult the sitch is. She is still not convinced that my changes are forever, and still wonders if she will feel the same 1, 2, 5, 10 years down the line. Just another reminder to keep DBing, keep doing 180's and not to slide back... WAW syndrome hit her hard, and she is still not in the clear apparently.
As soon as she said this all I said was, "I understand how you feel, and it's no problem. All I can do is keep living life and enjoy the time we DO have together." Then she made a joke about me spending too much time with her... We tried to both laugh it off, and after a few minutes of awkwardness managed to have a good dinner.
We laughed and had a good time the rest of the evening, although I could tell she was a little more distant. Need to redouble DB.
Yeah, ouch...easy to see how that happened though. Anyhow, not to put salt in the wound but to be clear, are you guys still not ML? And if not, what does she say about it? Are you worried she's using you to see the world and then going to leave? Does she think she has "issues" or does she think it's all about your R/M and not so much her stuff, but a reflection on your M.
Um, $4k on 2 bikes? Wow, they better be sweet bikes!! My cousins took a year off and biked the coast of Spain to France and it's incredible how little you actually have to have with you to live. Their bikes were sweet too.
Keep us posted. If your changes are real and permanent, man, it's crazy to lose that. You're a man only a fool would leave. If she doesn't get it, and it's real, then it's her loss. You won't be alone all your life.
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
. When she got to the meeting spot, she called to ask where I was. I told her, oh I didn't want to wait in the car so I went to a local store to hang out. I'll be there in 5 mins.