Ok time for an update It has been 3 days since the relapse. Two of those days I brought her coffee. Today she made some for the both of us so no getting her some. It's no big deal though. Things are starting to get better she has been in a good mood for a few days now, and the level of playfulness between us is on the rise again. On more than one occasion she has playfully tackled me and we end up rolling on the couch or the bed like little kids. We both have fun, and I feel like these tackles are really stealth hugs. She reminds me of the little girl in the playground who has a crush on a boy so she goes and smacks him in the arm. That being said in the past she has gotten carried away and hit me harder than is called for. I have in the past just brushed it off as if to say I'm a guy. You can't hurt me. Now though as part of getting my self respect back if she crosses the line I let her know of my displeasure and how it will not be tolerated. She has taken it pretty well, apologizes and tries to be even more playful. Stand up for the little things first.....
All that being said we are taking a trip for my sisters graduation. She is coming but insisted we get separate beds at the hotel. A little disheartening but consistent seeing as we haven't slept in the same bed in months. I will hang out with my family, she will hang out with her cousins. I have to trust nothing will happen. I hope a little time apart will serve us well. Still working on my jealousy issues. That I can tell she hasn't made any moves towards that PA ever since I told her how much the thought of it bothered me. So now I have to play my part and give some trust. I know her cousins they are good people despite loving to party. I pray this weekend makes us stronger.
....Things are starting to get better she has been in a good mood for a few days now, and the level of playfulness between us is on the rise again. On more than one occasion she has playfully tackled me and we end up rolling on the couch or the bed like little kids. We both have fun, and I feel like these tackles are really stealth hugs. She reminds me of the little girl in the playground who has a crush on a boy so she goes and smacks him in the arm.
...That being said in the past she has gotten carried away and hit me harder than is called for. I have in the past just brushed it off as if to say I'm a guy. You can't hurt me. Now though as part of getting my self respect back if she crosses the line I let her know of my displeasure and how it will not be tolerated. She has taken it pretty well, apologizes and tries to be even more playful. Stand up for the little things first.....
....All that being said we are taking a trip for my sisters graduation. She is coming but insisted we get separate beds at the hotel. A little disheartening but consistent seeing as we haven't slept in the same bed in months. I will hang out with my family, she will hang out with her cousins. I have to trust nothing will happen. I hope a little time apart will serve us well.
.....Still working on my jealousy issues.
.....That I can tell she hasn't made any moves towards that PA ever since I told her how much the thought of it bothered me. So now I have to play my part and give some trust. I know her cousins they are good people despite loving to party. I pray this weekend makes us stronger.
A few thoughts...
Playful physical interaction is good.
As to her physically hitting you harder than is appropriate....you are probably correct in it being a learned juvenile reaction to someone she cares about and feels she shouldn't. You sound like you handled it well.
My wife use to and still ocassionally does that. I am still not sure how to handle it. My responses in the past have ranged all over the place.
Once I grabbed her by the wrists, held them tightly by her side so that she had to look me in the eyes, and told her in a calm strong voice that while I loved her, it was important to our marriage that she treat me with respect. There was no physical abuse of her on my part, but it startled her and she really treated me better after that for quite a while. It also gave her something to really think about and that to me it wasn't about me, it was about our marriage.
Other times, I have tried to not make a big deal out of it and frowned and told her that what she just did was inappropriate. She would usually apologize and I would forgive her and not say a word about it again. That is boundary setting.
Other times I have calmly looked at her and as a way of "teasing" her and "calling her bluff" said to her that the only time she has my permission to "physically hit me" is if we negotiate what will happen before hand, we are in our bedroom, and she dresses up as a dominatrix (we have never done that). When I say that she kind of freaks out as to what her subconsious motives might have been. Ususally, after such a comment she is really introspective for a long time.
The point of this is that there are a variety of ways to handle the situation and the best ones are for you to quickly forget about it and let her try to figure out what her real motivation for hitting you meant. Put the burden of understanding what she is doing on her. You did a good job of setting boundaries, congratulations.
As to traveling and being in separate beds.... Well her actions are she wants to be with you, she wants to remain at your side (sort of). That is good. The two of you are not yet ready to have sex (yeah, I know you are more than physically read, but trust me, you and she are not emotionally ready for that yet).
Her visiting family is good, they can be a strong influence to bring the two of you back together. If you are lucky her father, mother, cousins just might sit her down and tell her that you are a good man and if she doesn't start treating you like a husband and lover, other women might take you away from her. Formal marriages involve family, because society knows that family pressure is important to supporting a marriage.
She probably wants her cake and to eat it to. That is by staying in the same hotel room and being there with you she can pretend to family that everything is fine and yet, she has the freedom of two beds. Don't be surprised if she doesn't look to one of her cousins for some "advice" on what to do, she really needs help and doesn't sound like she has the support group you do.
Also don't be surprised if she crawls into your bed and rubs herself against your body during your trip. She is really confused and physcially testing herself (ie the play fighting) to try to figure out her true emotions. If she does climb in your bed, be really strong, as she is testing herself and probably doesn't know the outcome.
Tell her that every fiber of your body wants to make love to her, hold her tight and become husband and wife again, but that you first need to be sure of her and that she is willing to commit to your marriage. Tell her that if she will agree to counseling then you will agree to hold her, but that you want to wait on the sex until you know it means a commitment on her part. If you can do that you will have just done an incredible 180 on her and let her know that (1) you are strong and in control of your emotions, (2) you are committed to a real marriage to her, (3) She can not use sex to physcially control you, (4) you care about her
As to jealousy issues and "playing your part" by giving her trust, you need to (1) forgive her and the pain she has put you through, (2) you need to give her unconditional love that she can count on, even when she misbehaves or challenges/tests you, and (3) you need to set boundaries and if she crosses them you need to calmly point out what she is doing and that ultimately, she will be the one who pays the price for crossing boundaries..
Good luck to you and have a great time. Tell folks about your getting back into triathalons. Tell folks about how much you are looking forward to going to your new posting with your wife so the two of you can explore the world. Let them know that you love your wife, so that if she says or acts weird they will ask her what is going on. Be loving and supportive and complementing about her to her friends and family.
>43 years of marriage--My wife and I are now closer than we have been in decades. I believe that my SSM is over.
Thanks for the sage advice The counseling part has been hard. As a child she started wearing black her parents freaked out, and sent her to a therapist recommended by the school counselor. She has told me that this person was so ridiculously clueless that she refuses to go to another counselor or therapist. This has made recovery hard, but at the same time there are some benefits. I've seen in other threads how the wrong therapist can just screw everything up. As for myself I have been going to my own ic. He has been advocating for me to man up. Just wish he would have introduced me to NMMNG earlier oh well. I may post updates over the weekend. As always I appreciate the after action reviews.
....she refuses to go to another counselor or therapist.
...I've seen in other threads how the wrong therapist can just screw everything up.
....As for myself I have been going to my own ic. He has been advocating for me to man up. Just wish he would have introduced me to NMMNG earlier oh well.
First you will have your work cut out for you, in finding a counselor for your wife.
I am really impressed that you have hooked up with a individual counselor. Way to go!
But, you seem to have a good group of friends or peers at your posting who are helping support you. Ask your friends to ask around to put you in touch with a "good" counselor for you and your wife. There are marriage counselors and there are sex therapists, who are marriage counselors with extra training. Based on your wife's saying she wants a lesbian relationship, I would suggest a sex therapist.
You correctly understand that you need good advice and that even then, you need to make sure it makes sense to you. As you say a bad counselor can screw things up.
MWD has a good article somewhere on choosing a counsel you might look around the website, but recommendations from people you know is probably best. If you are shooting in the dark, I favor a board certified sex therapist, and a marriage counselor trained in either the John Gottman method of marriage counseling or the Sue Johnson, Emotionally focused therapy approach. Both, see to be more effective.
Good luck to you and enjoy the weekend. Know for sure that your wife will surprise you. Think of what is likely to happen as your very own soap opera that in 15 years you will look back on and laugh about. Right now you are too close emotionally to things. In 15 years it will all seem so different.
>43 years of marriage--My wife and I are now closer than we have been in decades. I believe that my SSM is over.
can you tell me the nature of the relapse? More importantly, what are your [b]short term goals with this m, and what are your 180s? [/b] I recall that some GAL had started and you were making new friends, getting male compnay, Good for you. But how about those questions above?
I really think if you set some realistic but hopeful goals that are measurable you will see progress and feel better and your motivation will improve.It cannot hurt.
Maybe goals such as "w will initiate an affectionate act", or "we'll interact and resolve SOME conflict or problem without either of us losing our temper or raising our voice..." and start with something VERY manageable, like who gets the car's oil changed or some goal that's not loaded with baggage and doesn't push her buttons or yours, and you both have a lot of them...
Finally, regardless of your w's childhood anecdotal experience with ONE T, whom she found to be clueless even though she was how old herself??? REGARDLESS,,,
she will have to get c sometime. The longer she waits, the more damage that gets done to you and the M, and the longer her baggage carries around with her and deepens its' hold on her. She has major baggage about intimacy so if she also resists getting professional help (and she REALLY RESISTS) aren't you wondering if you are merely prolonging the inevitable?
It seems to me she resists T partly b/c she resists changing at all. It's harder for her than being miserable...which is not healthy.
Nope, you cannot force her to go. I just think it's a bad sign. But you CAN go yourself. Why wouldn't you? You have a lot to deal with...as great as we all think we are here on this board, your issues are so intimate and private and the type of issue that a professional should handle, i have to urge you to go yourself. It's NOT the type of problem that solves itself, (or it would not have gotten worse).
Meantime, I'm torn about what to say re your needs. I'm tempted to say simply back off. NO R TALk AND NO "R" TOUCH... but how long can you handle that?
At its' root level, I don't get what her sex or ML problem is. Way back when you began here, you said she wanted MORE SEX with more people ("open M"), and now, it's no sex with any people? Or just no sex with you? I'm not being sarcastic, but am trying to re-cap b/c you post a lot and I want to make sure I'm getting the gist of this. Physically, you are in good shape, correct? (Sounds like it to me!) And so is she, although on the lean side? Sooo, what do you think is going on with her? If you can put that in a paragraph, it's worthwhile endeavor. Otherwise when we write about our WASs it can turn into a novel and we can't see the forest for the trees...keep it short and simple. What do YOU THINK, her basic problem with intimacy is? I really think it'll help us guide you b/c sometimes you're all over the place. The fighting, the pregnancy comments, moving, being bored, wrestling that goes too far, making out that doesn't go far enough, etc. Narrow it down some if you can. And yes we know this is just one side of the story.
Good luck
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
Long story short The relapse started when she brought up that it may be awkward for some of our friends to see us together yet. I said it should not be a problem, because we are working on it, and that it wasn't a bad situation. (I hindsight I walked into a R talk trap sigh) At this point she mentioned that things were not better, they just hadnt got worse. (all I could think was of course you'd say this...and forget the last 2 weeks). She then pointed out that she still couldn't bring herself to being intimate with me and she didn't know how to get through that. During the relapse she also mentioned how frustrated she was both mentally and sexually. I stressed I was frustrated too. She made sure to ensure me nothing had happened and said that it was adding to her frustration.
That's kinda the gist of it. It lasted about 6 hours. She started warming up the next day, and by the second day started talking about a future together again. (without me prompting, I try to avoid that sort of thing nowadays).
As for her main problem right now I think it's that after years of being careless, around the house, not "listening" to her, letting her walk all over me, and being needy. She just started finding me unattractive. Couple that with a constant need to be in control of when she is in the mood, and we have the issues we have now.
Here is a hypothetical example: On a Friday while I'm at work she may be doing laundry. She is a stickler for washing clothes right side out. All my clothes to include socks and underwear are inside out, so she spends an extra 15 to 20 minutes getting my clothes right side out. To make things worse she casually mentioned this about 2 months ago so "I should have known better". So now she is ticked, it's Friday so I try to take her out. Maybe I try to take her somewhere nice, we get drinks, I'm in the mood, and she knows it. She's not because I was so thoughtless about the socks. Nonetheless I don't get the hints, we get home and I try to initiate. She's too mad about earlier, and now even madder because in her mind the entire date was only about the sex. Sex she is not willing to give, and hates being coaxed into. She rejects me, I get hurt so either A throw a nice guy temper tantrum or B get needy and try to coax whatever affection or intimacy that I can get to make myself feel better. Both responses naturally drive her away. Repeat for 4 years, and no wonder she is annoyed an unattracted.
Reading the 5LL's really has helped me understand why she gets so upset over nitpicky things. In the same way that a warm cup of coffee made just the way she likes it just for her makes her feel loved, carelessness and thoughtlessness especially when previously warned has the opposite effect. Ie "I told him not to leave open water bottles on the table, he must be trying to spite me, or is just a complete idiot."
Recently I have realized that caretaking is a big way of expressing her love. When she is in a good mood she does it a lot. When not she may neglect me a little. On the other hand for me quality time is more important.
As an example earlier in the marriage I mentioned that I loved scrambled eggs, she made eggs for months. I loved it, and appreciated it. A few months later at the doctors office I was told I had to cut back because my cholesterol was slightly high. When I told her this she burst crying, saying she felt terrible for "poisoning" me. At the time I found it odd. After reading 5LL I realize that the emotion came from finding out that something she did out of pure love was harming me. That's why every time she makes me eggs now I feel extra loved, especially the morning after a fight.
Hope that clarifies some things I'll post my goals and 180's soon.
Wow, this is a really tough situation but Those are really good insights for you. Well done. (As you can see, we all suggested the 5LL's book for a reason. It opened my eyes a lot too.)
I just wish she could understand 3 things about this. 1) one of YOUR LLs is physical intimacy. Even though she sends her Love to you in ways she understands and expresses, that vital LL of sex is missing AND it's the one need only a marriage partner can provide. (B/C you can get your eggs somewhere else, but you're supposed to keep the sex inside the m).
2nd) she withholds sex, which is using it as a weapon to punish. Long ago I read that doing that was some sort of factor in a high number of unhappy marriages and led to a lot of divorce. I know women who do that. No one is happy in those m's.
While it's true that we women tend to connect emotion to sex more than men and need SOME mood factor to enjoy it fully, (hence not being able to shut off one emotion in order to simply STOP and GO and ML that minute...we don't work that way) we still can give ourselves to our h's out of love. When my father died, I was too depressed to fully enjoy sex but I still enjoyed the intimacy of ML...
To hold a grudge all day about laundry or whatever the example is, is simply holding a grudge and not forgiving or cutting slack to your partner. NO MARRIAGE CAN SURVIVE OVER TIME, WITHOUT A LOT OF FORGIVENESS ON BOTH ENDS... I really stand by that. Not necessarily affairs or drug use or a crime thing to forgive. But we have to cut each other some major slack b/c we married flawed humans, [i]and so did they!
[/i] I think your point is that she saw it not as a laundry matter, but as a lack of caring on your end. I get that, and That's a really useful insight. But the thing is, you still have needs not being met. And a w who may not even try to meet them, no matter what you do. Is that accurate?
I believe we still have to face some facts.
3) IMO, sex is not a commodity for a wife to give to a husband in some sort of quid pro quo exchange. If it were, we'd be prostitutes and you'd pay us $$.
Also, It's called making love for a reason. It is supposed to a part of marriage, and a shared experience. It's mutually giving...sure, it's a physical release but it can be so much more. In fact, It is NOT always about sexual satisfaction. It can be a shared experience meant to comfort someone in mourning (after my mil passed away, my h needed intimacy more, not less. I don't think it was b/c he was "hornier" ). Sometimes after an argument in which one of us got too angry and wanted to apologize, being intimate can be an act of contrition or an act reflecting forgiveness, or a celebratory act.
Our d22 graduated from college yesterday and we "celebrated" in a way that that only the parents of a child who reached such a milestone can do. We were proud, we were touched, and we felt very close...So ML is an act with so many meanings. It's also a reminder of vows we made that are confirmed by ML b/c only in our m, do we have this act. (In most m's that is. No judgement there, but for most couples, sex is an exclusive thing, and that adds a special piece to it, you know?)
Maybe you can talk about what sex is to each other, other than the physical part. Maybe someday she'll be willing to see a counselor. Or maybe this will continue on unabated. I know one thing, you're young. You will not always be able to function sexually without help, and your libido will drop and all that other aging stuff happens to us all at some point. This is THE TIME in your life when it can be such an integral part of your m, and something to look back fondly upon and recall years from now...my h and I still shake our heads privately, at some of the places we found to be intimate, and it's our secret and it's fun to remember. And we're by no means done...
My question for you is this. If she's going to be this way for the forseeable future, is it a deal breaker for you? Do you know what you can live with? (You may not know yet, but you have to figure it out sometime.) And if she doesn't get help, how much change do you think you can expect of her?
If it is a dealbreaker, in fairness to her, you will have to be clear w/her so she knows what you know. Make sense? And fwiw, I think if she's not willing to change, you're going to have a tough road ahead and you'll need all the help and support you can garner.
Good luck
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
Wow, this is a really tough situation but Those are really good insights for you. Well done. (As you can see, we all suggested the 5LL's book for a reason. It opened my eyes a lot too.)
I just wish she could understand 3 things about this.
...1) one of YOUR LLs is physical intimacy.
...2nd) she withholds sex, which is using it as a weapon to punish.
... we still can give ourselves to our h's out of love. When my father died, I was too depressed to fully enjoy sex but I still enjoyed the intimacy of ML...
...To hold a grudge all day about laundry or whatever the example is, is simply holding a grudge and not forgiving or cutting slack to your partner. NO MARRIAGE CAN SURVIVE OVER TIME, WITHOUT A LOT OF FORGIVENESS ON BOTH ENDS... I really stand by that.
...3) IMO, sex is not a commodity for a wife to give to a husband in some sort of quid pro quo exchange.
...Maybe you can talk about what sex is to each other, other than the physical part. Maybe someday she'll be willing to see a counselor. Or maybe this will continue on unabated.
....My question for you is this. If she's going to be this way for the forseeable future, is it a deal breaker for you? Do you know what you can live with? (You may not know yet, but you have to figure it out sometime.) And if she doesn't get help, how much change do you think you can expect of her?
If it is a dealbreaker, in fairness to her, you will have to be clear w/her so she knows what you know. Make sense? And fwiw, I think if she's not willing to change, you're going to have a tough road ahead and you'll need all the help and support you can garner....
+1, great insights straight from the heart.
A couple of added thoughts for GB.
I view GB's wife as being mmature in certain ways more so than anything else, but that is what I read and relate to. I see his wife as being confused about her own sexuality, what love means and what marriage (or committed relationships) mean. I see his wife as "acting out" to both get attension from her husband and to get and check reactions from him. This is not to condemn her and my view is based on my experience in my marriage. Let me explain.
In my marriage, one of the things that the sex therapist (who helped my wife and me) said that really resonated with me, was that every so often my wife would take on the role of a rebelious teenager (even though she was a mature woman who had two grown children). When my wife would do that she would try to position me into the role of "her parent" so that she could rebel against me and fight with me. It was a "role" she had learned in her youth and was comfortable with and it became her default role in our relationship when things didn't work out for her.
This was an insight I gained in therapy and sense may be going on in GB's marriage. Once I realized what was happening (and because I had survived being a parent to two strong willed teenagers) I was pretty easy, to not get sucked into the game she was trying to play.
Again, GB needs to be cautious with this advice, as it is me, projecting my experience on his situation. I may be wrong and it may not help him.
Another thing that really helped me in my SSM was some advice I got from John Gottman and his wife at one of their weekend workshops. It was that I cannot successfully and should not try to negotiate with my wife for something until I can explain her reasons for her position as well as or better than she can. That means that I need to invest a lot of time to understand why she feels the way she does about certain things, before I can hope work with her on see if they can be changed.
In GB's case, I see his wife is confused about her basic sexual orientation, she is confused about the kind of committed relationship she wants (marriage, open marriage, lesbian affairs,....). I would be overwhelmed in trying to fully understand such issues with my wife. My heart goes out to GB as he will need to try to understand this to help his wife (which is another good reason for a sex therapist marriage counselor who can translate and put into context for GB).
P.S. I also think that 25yearsmlc has an excellant point about developing some quantifable goals.
One of the things that I did was to set some goals for myself as to how love I would give things until I would end the marriage. I shared those with my wife in counseling and they were "vows" that I had made to myself and would have kept. If we had not been in counseling and I had revealed them, they may have sounded more like threats. In counseling, the sex therapist helped turn them from threats into boundaries that my wife needed to deal with.
Similarly, one of the things that I did was keep (and still do) a private diary. In my diary (which is password encrypted and not susceptible to a keystroke capturing device) I record my feelings, fears and interactions with my wife. It was theraputic when my marriage was in crisis. In reading it, I learned things that I had observed but not understood. For example, one of the things I did was to record all "signs of affection" that my wife showed me once I started my DB and unconditional love to her in her languages of love. I was surprised by all the things she did (in her languages of love and some of mine) that were really her trying to provide me with signs of affection. Before the end of our SSM, they only included small things that a sister might do to a brother as opposed to what a wife and husband should do, but they were still signs of affection on her part that I would have normally missed in my need for being touched and sex.
Good luck GB, you are really figuring things out quickly and making progress. Ultimately, whether your marriage succeeds or fails will be up to your wife's willingness to change (and possibly mature). The good news is that you are doing everything you can to save your marriage and can take that knowledge with you.
I hope that your wife sees the changes you are making in GAL, realizes that she to can make changes because of your example, realizes that you are a good man and a man that she is luckly to have devoted to her, and desides to become a woman worthy of such a man and his love.
Keep up the good work GB....continue with your GAL and personal growth, use visualization and words of self affirmation to feel good about yourself and who you are.
>43 years of marriage--My wife and I are now closer than we have been in decades. I believe that my SSM is over.
Journal entry: weekend I agree with the teenager remark, my ic had dawned on that earlier, and he even suggested I do what parents need to do and set boundaries. It wasn't until I found my inner strength with NMMNG that I actually started setting them. Not just that but I have also realized that as a teenager some life lessons she will just have to learn on her own. Hopefully things won't get ruined because of it.
So the weekend was kind of a mixed bag. As stated before we were going to my sister's graduation. My family was visiting, and her family live in the same city. We got a room for the both of us. On friday we drove down in two cars for the six hour ride (I'll explain why soon). The ride went well. That evening when we got to the hotel she seemed a little annoyed, I knew it was the long ride, so I left her alone. After about 30 minutes she started reaching out to me, and making conversation and showing me things on her phone. I paid attention to her, and we started joking around, next thing I know we were full on play wrestling on one of the beds. It was a lot of fun, and it was nice to hold her that close. (Even if it was a gentle bear hug). It was getting late, and my parents arrived in town, and called me. I was going to go say hi, at their hotel. She playfully said you sure you want to go? At this time I was holding her down from behind with my arms wrapped around hers and my legs coiled around her. I just said no not yet, and held her down for a few more minutes. (where I was holding her down, it felt more like we were holding each other. I also think she liked being held down, by that big tough guy she forgot I am). I left to see my parents, spent a few minutes with them, came back, then left again to get some basics from walmart. That was friday....it was really nice.
Saturday morning was very nice too, got up, got ready, went to starbucks and brought her coffee. She was very grateful. She seemed very happy, and very loving. We ate the snowballs I bought last night. (We have lately been on a snowball snack cake kick). I got ready and we parted ways, she would see her friends and family, I would go see mine.
There was very little contact that day. I saw it as a plus, we both had problems constantly checking up on each other in the past, so this was a good 180 on both our parts. Around 5 she let me know that she was going to the other side of the border and would be spending the night at her cousin's house. Now before I get all the comments implying that something happened here is what I have to say. I know her male cousin well, when this all started he was one of the only people that contacted me from her side of her family. He told me that to this day he regretted his own D and fully supported us getting back together. He also promised me that he would always protect her, and make sure that no funny business happened. Needless to say I feel comfortable letting her hang out with him. Secondly spending the night on the other side in a relative's house is WAY safer than trying to cross the border at 2 in the morning. Too many bad things happening over there at that time. The only problem of course is that her being on the other side, reception is bad so we were dark for a while.
As you can expect though I was worried most of the night and didn't sleep well. The next morning I woke up and started getting ready for mother's day brunch. She still hadn't arrived from the other side yet, and I was very concerned. Also check out was at noon, and I had to be with my parents by 11. I was worried about her not making it back in time for checkout. (Well worried, and mad). Well she didn't make it back till 11:30 on sunday morning. (She said something about a 2 hour wait time at the bridge, ok believable). I replied with short texts, that were more logistical than anything. About 30 mins before checkout I got a text telling me that she needed help getting the stuff to the car. I asked her why, she said she wasn't in shape for it. (IE too hung over, and sick from last night). I said I couldn't leave my mom on mother's day.
She then sent me a series of UGLY text messages. Saying I HAD to go help her, with a couple of nasty adjectives. I excused myself and gave her a quick call. She answered, and she could instantly tell my tone was not happy. She asked if I was ok, then I told her I did not appreciate what she wrote in the texts, and to never do that again. She quickly apologized and tried to say that she thought I wanted an easy out (to get away from my parents), and thought that those ugly messages would help. I told her that yes I had asked earlier to help me come out with an excuse in case things dragged on too long with my parents. (My parents have made me miss plane flights in the past because they hang on soo much, so it's not as inconsiderate as it sounds). I made a point of telling her though, that her demanding I leave, made me sound whipped and I was not going to do that. I emphasized that I was not leaving mother's day brunch, until it was over. After some discussion she told me it would be ok, and would somehow manage.
She later asked what she should do while waiting for me, I suggested she go to a store and hang out, that it wasn't going to be long. She said she was in no shape to do that, but would figure it out. A few minutes later she told me she was hanging out with a friend. I said no prob time to be with my family. We set up a time to meet.
I said good bye to my family,(won't be seeing them for a very long time). Then headed to the agreed spot. When I arrived on time, she called to tell me she would be 45 mins late because she was on the other side of town. (I thought to myself, sureeee.....) I figure she wanted to make me wait, like I did to her. Well rather than get mad, I went and hung out at a local game store . When she got to the meeting spot, she called to ask where I was. I told her, oh I didn't want to wait in the car so I went to a local store to hang out. I'll be there in 5 mins.
Well we met up, and I left my car behind. Since we are moving, I dropped my car at my sister's, and we drove back in her car. (Thus the two cars in the first place). When I saw her, she looked very tired, and was even limping. This made me kinda mad, since it made me wonder how "wild" last night was. All I could tell myself was "trust her cousin, trust her cousin". I asked how the night had gone, she said she didn't want to talk about it. As you can imagine this made me more mad. I tried not to make a big deal, and see how long it took for her to say something. About 30 mins into the ride back she told me, a close friend they grew up with tried to "feel her up". I could tell by her reaction that her awkwardness was not from guilt, but from feeling violated.
I asked what had happened, she told me she couldn't help but vomiting, and that he helped her lean over. While doing this she got some on her shirt, and he said he was going to help, reached under her shirt, unhooked her bra, and started reaching towards the front. She said she instantly recoiled, before he could touch her, and kept telling him, that his help was not needed. She told me she was so freaked out, she almost screamed out for her cousin. Her two other female cousins helped her change in private. At this moment she could tell I was NOT happy. She asked what I was thinking I told her the truth. "If I would have been there I would have punched him the face, until he passed out"
I expected all sorts of crazy things to come from her. I expected her to say that I over protect her, or that she didn't need me protecting her, or even that I shouldnt get jealous and that she could do what she wanted. Bottomline I thought she was going to get real defensive over my feelings of protection.
Instead she just got quiet, and nodded in agreement. She then asked what she should do. I told her: Well we now know that this guy is untrustworthy when drunk, if I were you I'd never hang out with him again. She quietly agreed. Then I told her. "He is lucky he was drunk had he been sober, I'd be turning this car around to beat him black and blue" Her only response was: "I know you would"
As angry as the incident made me, I can see the silver lining. It was nice to be her knight in shining armor again, I think it was also a good reminder of how quickly crazy partying can go downhill. She was lucky to be around family that cared about her and would protect her. Even then a jerk, almost got his way.
After she got that out of her chest, she instantly started feeling better. She spend the rest of the car ride, trying to be cute and trying to get me not to be angry. The amount of positive attention she payed to me was nice.
Oh on a side note I casually lifted my sleeve past my shoulder, to scratch my deltoid. She quickly leaned in and gave my tricep a little lick. (I have swimmer's arms, not big but toned). I gave her a quick smile and tried not to make a big deal. She quickly asked in a cute voice "did you not appreciate that?" I told her "yes I did, I appreciated it a lot". The rest of the ride was very nice, when we got home we sat on the couch watching a little tv, she leaned her legs on mine, and curled up with me on the couch. Very nice....
Today too has gone very well, I got myself coffee and got her some too.
Unless I am totally dilusional I see this weekend as a plus. I stood up for myself, and while she had a bad experience hopefully it made me her appreciate me a little more. I hate that bad things like this have to happen, but sometimes it may be what is needed.
Going back to the whole teen thing, yes boundaries are needed, but somethings your teen just needs to learn on their own... I hope this is as bad as it gets.
25yrs, young at heart, I know you guys had some questions. I'll get to them soon. Making these mini novels can be quite draining as it is.
Journal entry Mixed day, spent a very lovingly morning with her, she really loves the coffee. Everything would have gone well except that she lost her temper twice. The silver lining was that she didn't go full WAW on me. Both times she lost her temper she didn't use the D word in anger. Other than that it was very nice, she even laid her head on my chest for a few minutes while watching tv. I loved that.
This morning went mostly well too until I was about to leave work. I accidentally had passed loud non odorous gas. It came out of nowhere, she acted bothered by it, but in a silly kinda way. Then she said kinda jokingly, this is why I'm not attracted to you. I tried laughing it off, but it really hurt. I left with a smile though. I know most people will think this ridiculous, but one of her major turn offs is "gross things".
On another note, it dawned on me how to describe what a lot of WAW's that come back, but are not willing to fully commit are thinking.
"it feels so wrong, that it feels so right."
This describes the state of mind that a lot of the WAS are in it seems, so many stories of returning spouses wanting to work it out but giving way less than 100%. It's like they come back to prove to themselves that it won't work, but get frustrated when things go so well, because it goes against their original plan. It can be so hard to reconcile what they say with how they act.
Ok rant over.
In case anyone was wondering I'm still chalking up yesterday as an up day. It was nice being with her.
. When she got to the meeting spot, she called to ask where I was. I told her, oh I didn't want to wait in the car so I went to a local store to hang out. I'll be there in 5 mins.