WAW Please Help Me.

[pleaseexplain]

Here it goes: I met my wife when she was 18. She said she had never been with another man. We dated for a few years, then married. We have been married for 23 years. She is 45 I am 53. She is a very attractive women. She is very fit. She is a very high strung type A. We have two teenagers, S 15, D 13. She has stated that I am too controlling. She has contolling behaviors and a very short temper but is reluctant to admit that.

She gave some examples of the "controlling" behavior. I did not deny what she was saying. For example, I would give her a hard time about going out with the girls, about what she should do at work, about what she was spending, etc. No put downs or anything like that.

She was at an professional football game with her family where we had a phone conversation about on line banking. On of her family member said "why are you talking about this now...we are at a football game."

When she came back she was a "changed person." She said she had snapped.

A few days later she told me that she had filed (Jan. 2011) She moved out March 2011. She says she needs "time" to figure out whether she wants to be alone or she want to be married to me. She states that there is no OM. She did have an EA ten years ago. She stated that she had it because I was too controlling back then. We never went to counseling. We just kind of dealt with it. I probably became worse because of the feeling of betrayal, loss of trust.

Now while in her new apartment we have been sharing custody. We still have combined finances. We still have a June 3, 2011 date but there are many details that will result in that date pushed back.

She tells me that she is "trying" She still shows me affection. Still hugs, kisses, still says she loves me. But she certainly is emotionally distant. She has told all of her family members and friends. Her family will support her. Our friends are neutral.

We had recenly been at a trip together for a family reunion that was planned before the bomb was dropped. She stated that she still wanted me to come. I had second thoughts but I came anyway. While we were here I saw for the first time that she had stopped wearing her wedding ring. I made the mistake of saying something about that. The dreaded R discussion. She said not wearing the ring did not mean anything. She had been wearing it since filing in Jan. While here I showed her I web article about the "walk away wife syndrome." She said that is exactly what happened to me. The article also says that men do change permanently. She has stated repeatedly that she is afraid that I am not going change. Later she was showing family (from out of town) pictures of her "new apartment." She claimed my mood changed when I saw this...fast forward...meltdown. She said it was over. She had been saying that she was "trying" was "working on it," etc.

She has since said that we can forget the "it's over" incident. She is being openly affectionate toward me in front of her family members, all of whom know we are now separated.

While on this vacation we are sleeping in the same bed. She kisses me goodnight. We cuddle during sleep. No s-x.

We have only been separated for a short time. She has said that when she is alone is a peace. I told her that I understood that. She is removing herself for the source of emotional upheval (me). She also said that she is not eating or sleeping well. I am trying the no contact route while she has kids.

I know that spouses will deny infidelity up to and including the time when you catch them in bed together. I do believe that there is now OM. When she had the EA ten years ago she told me about it. I did not know. I don't know why should wouldn't tell me know if there was an OM.

She told me that she tried show me how I should react toward her by how she permitted me to do whatever I wanted without question. She never told me that what I was doing made her that unhppay.

We have since returned from the trip. She when she said goodby she hugged and kissed me and stated that she had a great time. The next day I received a letter from her lawyer that idndicated that a pretrial date was being set. I had not hired an Attorney. Our finances had still been comingled and she has been spending money like a drunken sailor. All under the guise of making her "new home" comfortable for the kids. BS. She has purchased Art, expsensive wines, clothes for herself, etc.

I had been walking on eggshells since January when she filed. After I got the paperwork from the attorny I called her. I asked whether this had anything to do with what the "it's over" comment she made on the trip. She would not give a direct answer. When I hung up I had an ephiphany. I concluded that I was done! Done walking on eggshells, done being a dorrmat. I wrote her an email the next day stating that I had established my own banking account and that from this day forward we would have separate bank accounts and responsibilites. She wrote back and made various venoumous comments. I told her that she could do whatever she wanted. I told her that I had the ephiphany. I said that if you perceived that I was needy or clingy in that past that it may have been that I may have been afraid of divorce. I told her that I am no longer afraid of divore so if that is what you want I am prepared to get it done. She had asked in the past if I would sign a Martial Settlement agreement drafted by her attorney. In the past I said that I would consider it, thinking that this may show that I was willing to cooperate at the expense of my dignity and best interest. However, at this time I told her that I would not sign anything drafted by her lawyer even if I agreed with it. I told her that I was either going to hire my own attorny or she need to fire hers and we would go to a mediator.

I say this only to say that she called me back and I spoke to a woman that I do believe was my wife. She was kind, made some comments about still not being sure about what she wants. Wants us to have a relationship, agreed to fire her lawyer and sit down to discus things. I have not seen this women for 4 + months. I think that when I stopped being the doormat and really convinced her that I accepted divorce as an outcome it did get her attention.

I now need advice about what I might do to keep things going in the right direction. I am still done being a doormat. I would like to reconcile but I will accept divorce and move on if I have to.

Help me.

[zero12]

Have you read DR? If not I think you ought to start there.

If she's out buying wine and clothes and hanging with friends, I wonder if she's not got some other behaviors that might be indicative of MLC.

You may also want to really think about what she's saying about your controling behavior. On the one hand, it sounds like she pretty much does what she wants anyway, or perhaps that's recent with the S and D. On the other hand, maybe you are too controling. It's hard to imagine that you could spend 23 years together with both of you vying for control. Were your daily lives very separate from one another?

Take care,

z

[pleaseexplain]

Zero, thanks for the reply.

An example of the controlling behavior:

She did tell me that she would alway wait to the last minute to tell me about any plans the girls would make so as to not have to deal with my "reaction." She stated that at the end she could only tolerate an instant of my pouting, not days of it( That is an exaggeration). She stated that girls would ask when she would plan something and that she would always back off thinking that if I found out she planned it that I would have a "reaction." Now this "reaction" is probably defined as: "pouting." Never did I say "do not go" or "stay home."

So on this point she is probably correct. I could see where it would be irritating, but not to the point of divorce. Also, it never stopped her from going anywhere or doing anything. She never sat down with me and said if you don't stop doing X (insert any of her examples of my "controlling" behavior) our relationship is at risk (or anything to that effect). So I had no idea that this was effecting her as profoundly as it has.

Our lives were not separate. We always did things together. We were always affectionate toward each other. Were intimate frequently (3-4 times per week). I my opinion no problem in that department. I even asked her about that when the bomb was dropped and she said that intimacy was not at all related to what was going on. She was "completely satisfied" in that department.

On another note: She has always had very significant mood changes during her period. She would go from easy going to crazy and back again in an instant. Now she seems like she is in a constant state of emotional funk (listing dramtically toward "crazy").

She called me last night, had a meltdown. Said we were not going to mediation(among other things). Called me this morning apologized profusely and asked if I would consider mediation. Said she was sorry for being so emotional, etc, etc. I do not know what is going on but she is definately going through something.

I love this women but I cannot continue on this course. I am preparing myself for a divorce that I do not want. I do not know what to do.

[pleaseexplain]

Well because it takes so long for these posts to be place on line I don't remember where I left off.

After "my wife" returned and said that she would consider mediation and firing her atttorney the next day she wrote me an email that essentially said that she had changed her mind. She was responding to my opening my own account and redirecting my direct deposit into it by saying I should have discussed that with her. *&*&#$$&_#$&@_& WTF. I should have discussed taking my own funds, establishing my own account and paying my own bills with her?????? Later this day we had a discussion about this. Not very productive. She stated that she would call me back later. I had been out for a few beers after playing basketball when she called. I stepped out and took the call. It was the same conversation. She said I took "drastic measures" by opening the account. She stated that I did not "trust" her enough to discuss it with her. OMG!! Where does this come from???

I finally mustered the courage to ask whether she felt that she brought any dysfunction or issues to the marriage. Previously, I had accepted the blame for the "controlling" behavior. She gave the examples, I stated that my reactions where "inappropriate." So the blame up to this point had been pretty one sided (MY SIDE). Her response was yes I have some issues, but only when you push my buttons.

That is classic.

We hung up.

The next day she calls me and leaves a really short message: "call me at work." I was on an interview panel and could not return the call. She calls me again and says: "I don't know if you got my message or if you are in meetings, could you call me back or maybe you don't want to call me back, have a nice day, bye."

I call back. She apologizes. No buts, ifs or becauses. She says she does not know what is going on. Does not know why she is reacting like this. Is in a "different/difficult" place. She says: "I know you have been trying." She says she wants to talk about mediation. Wants to set up a time to talk.

Later this night, she calls to tell me that she had lost her wallet. Left it on the car and drove off. It fell to the ground and was lost. She was frantic. I offered to help look for it. It was getting dark. Fortunately, moments later the credit card company called to say that someone had found it. She came over to my house, thanked me profusely. I hadn't really done anything. Then hugged me really tight and said: "It's great to see you." I don't know what the DBing response should have been but I said "it's great to see you too." "It's always great to see you."

She called later to give me an update on the lady who found the wallet and what she did where she lived, etc. Profusely thanked me again.

Who is this person?????????

What should I be doing??????????

HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[pleaseexplain]

After a back and forth series of conversations my W agreed to meet to discuss mediation. She had been 100% against this in the past. We met at a nearby coffee shop. She brought her briefcase, paper and pen. I did not have anything. Actually, I thought this was funny and told her. We both laughed about it. We went on to talk about how various assests would be split. We have a lot of stuff. It was tense at times. She at one time pointed to the paper and said "this is our life." Meaning the various assets. I had to bite my tongue. I wanted to say: Those are assets, they don't mean s___t. Our life is what you are walking away from. I did not say it.

I took the opportunity to state that I was okay. She always asks about how I am doing. She knows that I was rocked by her decision in the beginning. I kept saying that I was fine. I would accept any outcome. I said that I was willing to do whatever needed to get done. I said that I was at peace emotionally and felt better than I had in the last four months. She stated that she wanted me to be happy and to have someone who was there for me 100% She said that emotionally that she was still in a difficult place.

At the end we had pretty much divided all the assets. I took the opportunity to just agree and to get up and leave first. A DB technique. I would have never done that before. It just so happened that I got a phone call just at that time. I could tell that she was trying to see who it was. I just left.

The next morning(Mother's Day) she called me twice, I did not answer. She did not leave a voice mail. She called a third time and I answered. She had her number blocked. She said that it happened when she was trying to take video with her phone when she was messing around with the settings.
(whatever!). She said that the meeting yesterday really bothered her. She said she wanted us to be friends. She wanted us to be able to be in the same room and to be able to interact. Later we met at our daughter's soccer game. We sat on a blanket and shared some pastry and coffee. She again started with the get along conversation. I said great! Let's do that. I said that we all make choices and that we could chose to do that. Somehow the conversation went to the divorce/reconcilation topic. She for the first time EVER said that she was in a different place. That she was open to it. It= reconcilation. She did not use the word "reconciliation" but that indicated that she was "open" to it.

I had given her the DB book early on. I stumbled upon the book in a bookstore. I did not know of the website at the time. I asked her to read chapters 1 and 5. She never did. I asked for the book back. She asked if she could read it before she returned it. She said that before she was in a place where she did not want to accept anyone(Me) telling her what to do (my controlling behavior). She stated that she is now in a different place and was interested in reading the book. She will not have the kids this week. The willingness to discuss mediation, saying that she was "open" to it (reconcliation) and her willness to read DB chapters are definately changes in her attitude.

On a final note: Her best friend became the topic of our conversation. I told her that this friend's husband (who is my best friend) was only guy friend of mine who had reached out to contact me. When we met this guy dropped a bomb on me. He indicated that his wife (my wife's best friend) had an affair. I did not ask about the details. He did say that the only reason that he was still married to his wife was because of counseling.

In the past when I mentioned counseling. My W would go balistic. When it came up today she seemed truly interested. She asked questions about their counseling, which of course I could not answer. However, it seemed that because I was not the one suggesting it or promoting it, it did not seem offensive to her. Because she sees me as "controlling" suggesting counseling is probably "controlling behavior" as she sees it and she recoils.

I have no idea where this ship is headed.

[zero12]

Sorry to break it to you, but “pouting” is just as bad, maybe even worse, than forbidding your W to do something. My H says “I would never stop you from seeing your friends,” “I want you to go and have a good time,” etc. Then he acts sullen about me leaving. I try to encourage him to do something fun for himself while I’m out, but he would rather default to spending the time by himself working on something around the house – and being sullen.

This is manipulative behavior, and it sends the kind of mixed signals that really mess with someone’s head. With my H, what inevitably happens is I spend some portion of the time out with my friends feeling bad that I’ve left my H alone (like I’m responsible for that somehow???) and then end up leaving early to get back to him. When I get home from these outings he’s often snarky, which really makes me regret having gone out. It really kills the fun and eventually I found myself avoiding outings with my friends. I don’t think my H is even aware that he does this, hence the speeches about how he would never keep me from my friends, but I’m a pretty bright person and I do know how to recognize a pattern of behavior. I would rather that if he doesn’t like being alone or he doesn’t like my friends or he wants my attention for himself that he would just say that up front. It’s not that it would necessarily change my desire to be with my friends, but at least he or maybe we could deal with the problem head on. The passive aggressive stuff is really annoying.

It seems that your W is engaging in some pretty confusing behavior, and that you both have some conflicting expectations. Remember there are several things going on that can contribute to the confusion. You and your wife may have conflicting expectations about how one is supposed to act during a separation. Your wife may not even be considering what reaction her actions are going to create, hence her surprise. Your wife may well be waffling on the status of the R herself and may be changing her expectations according to her feelings in the moment. There may even be other things contributing to the confusion that I can’t even begin to fathom. Suffice it to say your W is probably very conflicted and in a lot of pain, and she’s likely to be all over the place.

The important thing is to focus on anchoring yourself and create consistency for yourself. That means making a plan for yourself, perhaps setting some goals for DBing and/or ground rules for your own conduct. You can’t react to everything she does, because she may run hot and cold for a while. It will make you crazy trying to keep up with her state of mind.

Another thing to keep in mind is that if you’re DBing with a WAS, you are in for a long haul. Even if she suddenly has an epiphany and comes running back to you, don’t count on it lasting. More than likely it took a lot of build up and a lot of time to create a situation that pushed her to this point of breaking up her M. It will take a lot of work and a lot of time to win her back.

[pleaseexplain]

Zero, great insight on the "pouting" part of my post. Honestly, I never really saw it that way. I guess that is why communication is SOOOOO important in a relationship. I really blew that one!

I also see that the posts and responses do not always follow in sequence. I believe that you were responding to my 5/6/11 post. Please read the ones that follow. I am very interested in your input on what is happening in the 5/7/11 and the 5/8/11 posts.

Thanks!

[pleaseexplain]

Update: When we left the mediation discussion W said she needed time to think about things (the mediation). I responded that I thought we had agreed, that I thought that what the discussion was for. In any case, I agreed to her "thinking" about it. I said fine, if I don't hear from you by the end of the day on Monday I'll assume the answer is no to mediation. She INSISTED that she would call me either way. The "getting along" behavior. Well, needless to say, she didn't call. I wanted to DB and not call but I need to know whether I am going to need to hire a lawyer. When I spoke to her she said she was still thinking about two things. I asked what they were. She said she was cleaning the house and could not talk. I asked "what about the call either way?" She apologized and asked if we could talk tomorrow. I said no. There was nothing to talk about. That she had made her decision and that now I need to make mine. She kept insisting that she would call tomorrow. We hung up. I later sent and email: "no need to call. Its done."

[pleaseexplain]

Update: We have spoken since I made the "no need to call It's done" comment. She said she tried to apologize. I would not accept it. I told her that SHE INSISTED THAT SHE WOULD CALL EITHER WAY AND DID NOT. I said that the lack of follow through was not right. This to me is her "controlling" this situation. Like in your face MoFo.

I said just do what you say you are going to do. Simple.

She says she has no emotion. Is not mad, etc. I have now hired my own lawyer. I have now also changed my mind on some of the asset division issues. This will probably turn ugly once the lawyers start going at it.

I saw her truck in the strip mall where my grocery store is located. It was pure coincidence. She was getting her nails done. I went in. We had a brief conversation. Mutual apologies, etc.

Son had a concert. I was in coffee shop near his school. She stops in. A coincidence, I assume. We have a friendly conversation. Superficial: how's work, how has your running been going, etc. A guy from our church came in. We were talking with him. He was talking about his kids, mom, etc. Then out of the blue he starting talking about a couple who had been married for 25 years was separated. He talked about how important marriage/relationships are. How you must talk to each other, pray together, etc. My W's jaw dropped and her eyes were wide. This guy does not know about our sitch. He is a very sincere and kind christian man.

When we left the coffee shop my W said "that was unbelievable." I said "I cannot even comment on that."

Sat next to each other during the concert, friendly conversation. I took the opportunity to leave first with son after brief reception. I Did not linger. We said goodbye. She looked sad.

The journey continues.

[zero12]

Part of my response earlier was about the 5/8 post. You were getting mixed signals from your W, and I can only reassure you that is normal and maybe even a good thing.

As to the other posts, from the cheap seats I see some potentially controlling behavior on both sides. (Can’t say for sure.) It also looks like some of it is really boundary building; i.e. the line in the sand isn’t a challenge to make the other spouse conform so much as making a rule for oneself to follow. I see your point about how she said she would call and then she didn’t, so you’re implementing the boundary rule that you set for yourself. From her perspective it may look like you’re trying to manipulate her with an ultimatum.

It was not cool for her to break her word about calling, and asking for an extension after not calling you would certainly be off putting. It may be manipulation and control, and it may be that your W needs to feel like she’s in control of things for now. That would be her boundary. Of course, no one should “control” another person and manipulation isn’t the way to build a trust, so in a sense you’re right to hold her accountable for what she said she would do.

Additionally, unless you’re competing over who gets to hold the high ground, you might want to give her the benefit of the doubt that maybe she’s not manipulating you. What if the whole incident was born out of genuine uncertainty and/or fear of what you would say? Really there could be any number of reasons why she dithered, and the point is that you don’t really know, which takes us back to trust and communication.

This is tricky. How do you uphold your personal boundary of not being jerked around, while dealing with someone who may be unintentionally jerking you around? First you would have to open your mind to the idea that maybe she isn’t meaning to mess with you and put it in category of those insensitive things people do sometimes. If you can do that then you can validate that you understand she is unsure about something and that she wants more time. (Don’t validate if you don’t get it, though. This is one of those things where you have to believe what you say.) Validating her doesn’t mean you have to back down from your position, because if you can grant her understanding then perhaps she will grant you understanding that you need to move forward despite her indecision so that you can have a sense of well being and certainty about what is happening.

Everyone wants some sense of control over their lives. Some people want more control than others, some people want too much control. Since I don’t know you, I don’t know where you fall in the spectrum. I do see in your posts that you are very uncomfortable with this situation being out of your control, but that’s understandable. Your W is calling a lot of shots that directly affect your life. You can’t control her, but you can control how you react to her.

I’ve been reading lately about different perspectives on relationships. One perspective is that relationships are about control and competition, while the other perspective is that relationships are about cooperation. You can imagine how incompatible two people who are competing would be. Likewise having a controlling partner with a cooperating partner, could easily end up being frustrating, confusing and painful for the partner who is seeking cooperation from someone who is seeking control. The point of is that the best relationships are when both partners are cooperating to reach mutual agreements.

If you want to fix your R, you both have some work to do. For now, you can only work on yourself.