Am I on the right track?

[FaithnAK]

Waiting equals passive. Don't wait...move. This is where you focus on doing something DIFFERENT. Anything, just do it differently...damn just do something right? Anything.

Hope is something you put deep inside, but you focus on what makes you happy. Waiting feels like eternity, but doing something makes eternity fly by. Get what I'm saying?

Faith, I'm a little confused here...are you talking about GAL stuff or are you suggesting I draw the proverbial line in the sand with her?

I posted my comment based on your "Guess I will wait and hope". Why wait? Make you the best damn you possible and move away.

I'm saying ACCEPT the fact that she is with OM. Understand that you waiting and not moving forward is counter productive. You better be GAL'ing. I hope you truly are. As far as the proverbial line in the sand, you can fix you at any point. Ultimately, you own your part of the marital disaster and you take charge in fixing your part. You don't do it as a tactic for her, you don't do it to get a reaction, you DO NOT do it to get "Look at me Honey, see how I've changed". You do it to look in the mirror and say "Damn, I'm not a bad guy after all"! If you find yourself at the point where you have to draw the line in the sand then do it, but until then don't live on what she thinks. Take a deep breath, step outside your situation, and see how she views you right now. Does she respect you....or does she seeing you doing this because you want her back?

Validate her decision, Show her you are better than THIS, Show her you are worth more. SHOW HER. Don't sit and hope, it's disgusting to a Woman. Lead. The idea is yoou flip the script....make her wonder what you are up to, make her want to be WITH you again because SHE WANTS too. Forgive and better yourself.

If she's with OM, she will not care until she see's you moving the opposite way.

Read what Sandi wrote again....move the F'n opposite direction. What YOU think is a good move, isn't.

I'm not attacking you, but you need to read Sandi and 25mlc....READ without tactic. Not a a Tactic. You have to feel it and live it.

[♪CS♪]

OK, I finally got a chance to get away from my sitch, so watch out!

close... IMO though, a boundary that you are not willing to enforce is NOT a boundary. So essentially, a boundary IS an ultimatum.

OK Denver, I know this isn't even your thread, but that is some serious lawyer sh!t right there! English Mo-fo, do you speak it!!! jk

Im sorry to hit you with a 1x2 but she may be lying about the extent of her affair.

Moose, none of us know the truth of what is going on, but do ask yourself if you are ready to accept this reality. It is a real possibility. Many of us here have had to accept the same thing. So without asking, without knowing for sure. Can you move forward knowing that she had an A? I think the sooner you can answer that question, the better you will be going forward. Not trying to freak you out. Just be honest with yourself.

Faith, I'm a little confused here...are you talking about GAL stuff or are you suggesting I draw the proverbial line in the sand with her?

Same thing Denver said. What he is saying is (and I am paraphrasing someone else here, sorry that I don't remember who) "standing does not mean standing still." Wish in one hand sh!t in the other, see which one fills up first." Heard that phrase before? Don't wish, act! 180's, GAL, "As IF" etc. DB!

Here's what I really want to hear:

"Moose, I do still love you, and I'm willing to try to put us back together. I am afraid that it won't work and that you'll just go back to the way you were, but I'm willing to let you at least try to prove yourself to me again."

And while I'm on that, I want to write out what I'd love to see happen if everything worked out perfectly. I figure if I get it out here, I'll be less likely to open my mouth this weekend and blurt it all out to W. Here goes.

1) W comes home

2) We start seeing MC again, with W telling MC that she's willing to work on the M...which she was unable to do a month ago.

3) Date night once a week

Oh man. You just got as far as possible from "no expectations" with this one. If you go in with these thoughts.... Just don't, please. One thing 25 has been mentioning in many threads recently is a realistic timeline. A weekend, does that sound realistic to you?

Off subject:

Brothers/Babes In The Sh!t

Back in December a group of us became very close and FellOnBlackDays came up with that. There are numerous members... FOBD, 2Stepboogie, Ironman, Bolt, grr, LIS, Mj, Dixie, Rae, Zengypsy, whatsnext, and a few others that I'm sure I'm forgetting.

Open invitation man... You and Moose and whoever else are invited.

I can't believe I have been so slow to think about this. I'm in...

Honestly everyone, I'm sensing guilt from her.

Tell me what I am thinking. Quick!

If you could mind read, you would never be in this sitch. Please don't try. Why, because it doesn't matter. You goals, your actions do not change. You become the man you want to be regardless of what she is thinking. Another paraphrase that I will forget who posted "Be a man any women would be crazy to leave." That is your goal right now moose. Doesn't matter what she is thinking.


Oh, I feel better

Sorry if I came swinging too hard. I have had some built up tension, I needed a release.

[Denver_2010]

close... IMO though, a boundary that you are not willing to enforce is NOT a boundary. So essentially, a boundary IS an ultimatum.

OK Denver, I know this isn't even your thread, but that is some serious lawyer sh!t right there! English Mo-fo, do you speak it!!! jk

LOL!! LOL!! Good one Country! I hope that made sense though...

Anyway... you are accepted into the BITS club Country ... welcome to the Heartbreak Hotel man!

BITS
Denver

[25yearsmlc]

[quote=NEmoose43]Okay folks, that pinging noise you hear is my WTF meter going off again. W just opened a FB chat with me a minute ago, and we spent a few minutes talking about her last exam tomorrow and how tough it's going to be. I won't transcribe only because most of it was detail on exercise physiology and her professor.

Anyway, she closes it with

"OK, I have to get off FB or I'm never going to get through this, was just hoping you'd be on."

and then:

"OK if I say goodnight later?"

So I said: "I'm pretty beat, but I'll leave my phone on."

W - "Don't worry, it won't be late, this stuff is putting me to sleep pretty quickly."

Honestly everyone, I'm sensing guilt from her. Of course, it could also just be what Sandi was talking about earlier where she's just trying to make me dance to her tune. I don't know.

You guys have any thoughts? I'm really trying not to read too much into this. [/quote]

Well you ARE reading WAY too much into all of this. So she was friendly to you...so what? Enjoy the minute...and move on....The more you two have these interactions at HER instigation, the more you MIGHT build on them. But if you try to get more or push or have expectations, she'll pull back and retreat b/c you make it an obligation as if she's teasing you when all she did was say something to her ..."Friend/roomate/h/partner" or whatever she thinks of you as being at that moment in time...read nothing into this except she doesn't seem to hate you.

You asked me to post to you so here it is...You need to Stop talking so much. Just stop. You do it way too much and when the conversations have the chance to end on a good note, instead of letting her go, you plod onward until you ruin it...

NO MORE R TALK...JUST NO MORE...not from YOU anyhow, and IF AND WHEN she brings it up, just listen...Don't talk so much and do NOT email or text or anything if you don't have to....good grief, she said she wants space and you say you'll give it to her and if she winks you thank her or if you get angry, you apologize 5 times and talk and talk some more....can you stop it? Please. You know it's NOT working so stop it....there, I think I've hammered that enough.

Detach, GAL and let her go find whatever it is she's looking for. If her mother and her feelings allow her love for you to resurface, AND IF YOU DONT' BLOW IT AGAIN, you'll have the chance to reconcile. But you will know, b/c she'll have clarity OR it won't be worth it...


Don't bother with guess work b/c it's not worth it. Be above that and if you can remind yourself of this it helps, Pay no attention to anything she SAYS and only half of what she does...

This isn't complicated, but it's hard. Detach, GAL, and tell us what your 180's are. I see a lot of repeated mistakes, even on the same day...so tell us what you are doing DIFFERENTLY???

Why would she want the same m to you, as you had before? You know she doesn't, so how are you demonstrating that your marriage would be improved? Can you see that detaching, GAL and 180s are helpful to that cause?? They are! Also, to re cap...Don't Talk So Much! Get other friends, and talk to them or us. Not her...OMG...please learn from your mistakes. Don't repeat them so often. And lose the anger, at least in front of her. It does not help, even if you think you are "right" to be angry. Do you want to be "right" or happy?

[NEmoose43]

Wow, glad you guys waited til I went to bed to bust out the 2x4's...kinda feel like Private Pyle from Full Metal Jacket right now though

Just kidding. 25, Faith, Country I so appreciate the beat down, really I do. And believe me, I'm trying. The last few days have really brought all the emotional stuff to a head for me, and like I said, I'm really trying to get stuff out here so I don't bring it up with her at all. In fact, since the confrontation on Wednesday morning, it's been all positive communication, and no R talk...and it's all been initiated by her. Small victory, but I'll take it.

So today, took my first ever yoga class. Holy cow, what an eye opening experience. Not to get too mystical on everyone, but I would totally recommend it to everyone that's feeling a little all over the place with their thoughts right now. Honestly, I have never felt this relaxed and at peace...it's kinda freakin me out. I feel so focused. The teacher had us choose a problem in our lives to focus on at the beginning of class (anyone know what I picked???), and then at the end of class during a sort of meditation thing, she told us to just let that go and focus on what our bodies were feeling at that moment. All I can say is wow. All the anxiety and stress just evaporated. Not to say that I'm not still where I was yesterday, but I think I found something that's really going to help me let go and concentrate on just "being" this new Moose that I'm trying to be.

25, thank you so much, the advice you have given here, and on other threads really is priceless for us. Detaching has been the hardest part for me (obviously), and I am GAL'ing. I've rededicated myself to working out (down 30 lbs. since Jan 1), I do Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu and MMA twice a week, and I think I'm going to have to fit yoga in there after the experience I had today.

As far as the 180s go, I'm really in the same boat as Denver at this point, because my emotional detachment from her, especially since she started grad school, is one of the big reasons why I'm in the sh-t right now. So maintaining that connection that I've damaged is a big thing for me...but I know that it does NOT include R talk. And that's what I have to stop. I've told her...there aren't any different words I can use at this point.

W texted me after her last exam today, I didn't get it right away as I was at the mall and my Blackberry is stymied by pretty much any enclosed space. She called a half hour later since I hadn't responded. Talked about the test, told her congrats on finishing her first year of grad school and that I was proud of her. She thanked me and said it meant a lot. She asked about yoga and we talked about that for a while, and I sincerely thanked her for convincing me to try it. [guys, this is a huge 180 for me...taking her advice and suggestions is something I didn't do enough of as the old Moose, and she has said it always made her feel like I thought she was stupid] She asked what I had planned for tonight, and I kept it as mysterious as possible (probably just cleaning the house, but she can think whatever she wants). She reminded me that she had a study to help with in the morning tomorrow until 10 or so, but she'd be driving back towards home after that and wanted to try and do something together tomorrow. I did NOT ask which home she was going to be driving to, and I did NOT speak to planning anything at all [hang on while I pat myself on the back...]. Left it with "Give me a call when you're driving down if you want, I should be up by then."

And that was it. I do still have my Deftones tix for tomorrow night, too bad it seems like everyone I know is away this weekend. I'm going to go ahead and see what she says tomorrow, but I may just end up going by myself. They're playing a really small theater show here and it'd be a shame to miss such a great band in a small venue. Thing is I know she loves them too...I think when we do talk tomorrow, I'm going to say that I'm going regardless, and that she's more than welcome to come if she still wants to. Hell, when the guitars are that loud, can't really talk over them so I'll be safe for a few hours from putting my foot in my mouth!

[sandi2]

First, I wanted to clear up something you may have misunderstood.

Sandi, thank you for dropping that on me. I really do appreciate your perspective and I do understand where you're coming from, but this woman has treated me like a son, and I want to do this for her, not for W.

I did not mean to suggest that you not go to see your MIL this weekend. I was pointing out what your W is doing and why she wants you to go to her mom's. My guess is that her mother doesn't know the story.

Next, I've noticed that your W has this way of keeping you on your toes by telling you she'll call later or come down the next day, etc. I suggest that you be thinking of things that you can say in response that will cause her to realize that you are thinking like a "single" man and she no longer can take you for granted. Let some of her calls go to VM. Don't tell her you're going to be home later in the evening or all day on Saturday. You are a busy and popular man. I would also suggest that you invite a friend to go see that performance instead of asking your W along.

Here something that scares the LBH. He sees what he's done wrong in the past and now he wants to do all those things he wasn't doing earlier. He's afraid to detach or turn her invitation down and go out to GAL. He thinks that will push her away. Wrong! Pursuing is what will push her away. Being too easy for her to get back whenever she wants, will push her away. Not be a strong, attractive, independent man, will push her away. At this point in your stitch, you really need to get her interested in you and what you are doing in your life. Be interesting! Be mysterious! Do you want to know how? All it takes is for her not knowing every detail of every second of your day. That's all.


((hugs))

[25yearsmlc]

what sandi said...PLEASE...do what she said. Do NOT invite your w to the concert. Her non specific probing reference to tomorrow did NOT sound like an invite. Why are you so available to her IF and when she MIGHT call? Why can't you have plans that don't include her? Did you TWO buy the tickets?

Sandi's analysis of your pursuit and your thought process and why you So resist ANY detachment is spot on. Down deep, I think You really don't believe us, do you? Somehow, YOUR Sitch isn't like any other here...

You think YOUR W is "different" and that she secretly does want you to be around and smothering and following and pursuing and bringing up R talk b/c despite all that she says AND DOES that points to the opposite desire of hers, (like when she says BACK OFF and GIVE ME SPACE), she is secretly testing you and wanting the opposite????

[Jack_Three_Beans]

You have 2 REALLY smart and DB 'wise' women giving you some amazing insight Moose. One of them a WAW a while ago.

Personally I'd listen to them.

[NEmoose43]

Sandi, thank you for your suggestions about how to respond to her inquiries. I hadn't really thought of it in that way. I do see that she's trying to keep me interested so to speak.

As to invites and planning things and making myself available...please note that I have NOT said or mentioned ANY of these ideas to my wife yet, I'm just sounding them out here. I agree that she was very non-specific about tomorrow, and as I mentioned above, I didn't press her on that at all.

25, we actually did buy the tickets together. We went to see this band together about 6 months ago and W fell in love with them. She noticed online that they were coming back to town and asked me if we should get tickets. I know that she really does not want to miss this concert, which is the only reason why I brought it up.

I know that the tone of the paragraph I wrote about the concert made it seem like I was expecting to go with her tomorrow night, but please don't ignore the paragraphs above it. I feel like I've turned a corner today. And keep in mind that I have NOT initiated any of the contact since the confrontation on Wednesday, and I have kept the R talk out of ALL of our interactions...which is my #1 goal for what to continue going forward. My DB coach has told me that I need to walk the tightrope maintaining our connection while not falling into pressuring and pleading. And I know you all can see that in my posts. I'm really working at this guys, I am, and I am not holding my phone constantly hoping it will vibrate. I am a work in progress.

And God help me, I know I'm too nice and too trusting, but part of me still wants to take her at her word. I know, I know, don't believe anything they say...but it's so hard not to when I love her so much.

[Jack_Three_Beans]

I know, don't believe anything they say...but it's so hard not to when I love her so much.

Oh man, its a good thing I hated my wife, made it easier to do all this DB stuff....