Mission 25. I Really Mean it this time>

[25yearsmlc]

Navigated yesterday without incident and without any contact from W. Youngest son made the soccer team as a keeper and wanted me to take shots on him in the back yard. We did for about an hour and tried to rake at the same time.

He wanted badly to tell W about making the team but her phone was busy all night. I think then she had a night shift.

Im finding it really tough to keep up with everything, like laundry , cooking, cleaning etc.. Im doing it but have Zero down time, other than this site.

She called this morning and wanted to drop by to give him shoes?

She could have done this at school. So i am struggling to get the lunches made, and to get myself ready and shaved etc..

Im taking the bike this morning so I get all my gear on , warm up the bike and then she pulls in looking kinda rough. I guess night shift cause she also has her nurse gear on. She walks right by me, says nothing, son hugs her. She says a few things, I put my helmet on. She looks back and waves. Im doing things on the bike so no real free hand, so I my wave back is delayed,
She gives me a sneer and keeps walking to her van.

Backs up and drives away, I get on the bike and head on to school.

It made me sad all the way to work thinking. So this is what its come to. The person I cared about the most in the world and I can barely exchange greetings. Really sad.

BTW: 25, you have dug up a real old post when she left the first time and I didnt know about OM.

The mental hospital? I asked her to go to the hospital after I found out about the affair. She came back last July but was not very kind to me and didnt want to have intimate contact of any kind. Texted alot and was on her laptop alot but I was oblivious to an affair although I did ask her from time to time.

This is all on my older posts. Bottom line, when I found out about affair from her blackberry. I lost my mind, called her every name in the book. Told her to leave and go to her house which she bought last JUNE and we were trying to rent out. She pleaded with me that it was just an EA and it was just stupid words etc. She pleaded that I give her another chance etc.

But these were all lies. I told her that i was going for a bike ride to clear my head and when I got back , I wanted her gone.

When i came back, one of her best friends was there, she was in the bathtub and her frined showed me a knife she had.

I think this was just drama looking back. When her friend left. I changed her, was calm but continued to insist that she leave and that our marriage was over. When she got the first chance, she bolted to the kitchen and got out a knife and meekly tried to slit her wrist. I wresteld the knife from her and my oldest son woke up and saw me on top of her , keeping the knife away from her wrists.

There was much more to this story but the end result was I didnt want her alone and wanted her undersuicide watch. I drove her to the city and the truth eventually came out and again, I handled it poorly. I wish I would have read more on this site but I did EVERYTHING wrong except insist she see the doctor and then she decided to stay in the mental hospital overnight but they kept her for 2 weeks.

I visited her often and calmed down and stayed with her. but she pushed away as the days passed and all but told me that she was selecting the OM.

Hope this helps 25. lIke i said, the whole sorted affair is on my NOvember posts.

9

I see a lot of inner conflict in you. While you talk about her drama and mental issues, you sounded as if you were quite dramatic yourself. Your anger is ruling and reeling, despite your claims to the contrary.

You kicked her out when you found the Blackberry/snooping/ stuff, b/c you were angry. Period. You snooped, you discovered something you didn't like, and you reacted immediately.

It's one thing to think things through and decide you just have to give up, go your separate ways, etc. But you were just mad and punitive. And you say you miss her and want the marriage to work? WTH?
How on earth are you demonstrating that?

And here's another 2x4...stop the guilting!! In case you haven't noticed, it does not work, it usually backfires AND guilt easily converts into anger at the source of the guilt, which is YOU.

Encourage the R's with the sons and defend her to them. Why? B/C IT'S WHAT IS BEST FOR YOUR SONS...

you tell them she's confused, which she is, that she loves them very much, which she does, and IF THEY ASK, you tell them that OM is a symptom of her confusion, which he is.

If they or anyone else asks you "how you can want to recon?" Or whether you want a divorce to happen, (assuming you do not)

You say "I hope we work this out b/c She's the love of my life and I've loved her a long time"...and then you stop talking. Support your sons and be the best father you can be.

Read up a lot about forgiveness and discuss it with clergy or whoever can help you with it. You keep circling the drain with this issue and it's the single biggest reason WASs dont' go home, They fear (rightly, sometimes) that the LBSer will make it so hard on them that's it not worth it. My DB coach said "Keep the road home, paved and smooth". Don't confuse that with being a doormat but ask yourself why she would want to come home to an angry man. The answer is, she won't. I KNOW you are angry and hurt and you feel right to be so. Being right is not really relevant if your goal is reconciliation. Do you understand and accept this concept?

I found some of Marianne Williamson's books helpful on this topic, although she's new agey religiously, for some. (I found her exercises on forgiveness really great and I did them and it helped me a lot. Frankly, forgiveness was not something I saw as a child. My parents fought and yelled and then retreated. They never said "Sorry" until my father was on his death bed filled with regrets and little time.)

If you children ask how you are doing, you tell them you are "getting better and stronger" and discuss your pain with people OTHER THAN YOUR SONS...

I've been where you are but you have got to see how UNproductive it is. You're stuck in an ugly place. Only you can get out of it. Stop cycling through the same old "OM obsessions" and asking "how can she??s" and "Why is she" question. Ass my DB coach said, those questions are designed to make her feel defensive, and for you to get self righteous. They are not helpful at all. Hope you see this someday soon.

[ninelives]

You are amazing 25 at seeing the problem and telling it like it is. I sometimes see my sitch as a hollywood movie and what would the lead actor do. And that is not the way to go IF i want her back and you are spot on about everything you said.

I have to let go of the anger and really see my role in all this.

I didnt make her feel special and took her for granted. Yes she was depressed and yes she blamed alot of her unhappiness behind her depression, but I was also selfish at times and put my needs ahead of hers.

I dont think that she had the right answer because my biggest mistake was looking at my peers and their relationships and they always said I was too good to my wife. And I saw how they treated their wives and thought that i was indeed better than them in our relationship but all that is meaningless now.

I still get confused about this whole cake eating thing on this board. If i am her friend, does that not validate everything that she has done and allows her to continue her relationship with OM with less guilt?

That is my biggest dillema. I do have to get rid of the anger for sure.

One thing, I dont regret snooping because she was treating me so badly and having an affair and something had to give there. What I do regret is how i reacted to that. I was so angry the first day that I pushed her away so badly and that may be something she never recovers from.

She did tell me when we recon the first time, she felt so guilty about the affair that she was rude and distant to me on purpose hopint that I would lose my call and justify her actions. But i was so nice to her and patient when she came back and that made her more angry. Her exact words. She felt more guilty the nicer I was to her. Like I said, something had to give.

My oldest son says that she is not happy right now. That she loses her temper for the slightest things.

I really dont know what I want for sure at the moment. I wish I could be more like you were 25 when you decided that you would lovingly detach and close the door but not lock it.

Somedays I think I am there and then I miss her so much.

I have been following your advice to Denver and 2step, ( 2 great guys) and am starting to see more and more that I need to be friendlier to her but not initiate any type of R talk.

That is the way to go right?

Thanks for checking in 25. I dont know how you maintain a job and do so much councelling.

We are all blessed that you have come forward.

9

[25yearsmlc]

You are amazing 25 at seeing the problem and telling it like it is. I sometimes see my sitch as a hollywood movie and what would the lead actor do. And that is not the way to go IF i want her back and you are spot on about everything you said.

Thanks, you're very kind. It's paying it forward, b/c I was very helped by the DB books and this support system and a wonderful DB coach.

I have to let go of the anger and really see my role in all this.

Yes you do, mandatory.

I didnt make her feel special and took her for granted. Yes she was depressed and yes she blamed alot of her unhappiness behind her depression, but I was also selfish at times and put my needs ahead of hers.

I read that 90% if women suffering from depression, have critical spouses. Learn from your experience and make changes so you know that no matter what happens to your M, you will be a better man for this and a better role model for your son. What are you doing for Mother's Day? How about helping your son do something for her? Nothing over the top (unless he wants to) but do NOT let him give her the cold shoulder. The worse she feels about their r, the greater the chance she'll pull away from him even more. It's too much for most mothers to cope with and it explains the WAWs who leave their kids for long periods. Too much guilt to face...


I dont think that she had the right answer because my biggest mistake was looking at my peers and their relationships and they always said I was too good to my wife. And I saw how they treated their wives and thought that i was indeed better than them in our relationship but all that is meaningless now.

You need new friends. Seriously, if we saw partner's mistreating each other, which we did years ago, my h and I did NOT spend time with them again. We specifically choose couples with healthy relationships, (at least what we see in public) and we avoid couples who fight or mistreat each other. They are toxic. I CANNOT STRESS THIS ENOUGH.... We learned that early in our M. That was a mistake we did not make.


I still get confused about this whole cake eating thing on this board. If i am her friend, does that not validate everything that she has done and allows her to continue her relationship with OM with less guilt?

I am not certain what you are asking. But Guilting her is not going to help you. Period. The wish for guilt in her, doesn't come from a place of love, wisdom or kindness in you. It's punitive, and it is not effective, etc. PERHAPS more importantly, you need to realize that if she came back to you b/c of guilt it would only lead her away from home, in time. I have not seen ANY m's restored b/c of guilt. The WAS who returns b/c of guilt, always resents it. I think you've experienced this, correct? So you know what does NOT work, right? Cross that behavior off your list.

When you are really stuck at a cross roads between 2 choices, ask yourself where the behavior you are leaning towards, comes from. Is it a place of love, forgiveness, strength, honor, or is it a punishment, a "teaching her a lesson", a "showing her the consequences!" type of place? Sometimes we lie to ourselves and pretend we have good motives, but if we are honest with ourselves and see through the BS, we realize we are not
coming from a place of light, but of dark, and then we know that's not the choice to make. Sometimes in all the confusion that was the only way I could figure things out. If I made the wrong choice, at least I knew I was coming from a good place.

The closer she feels to your son, the better. The more comfortable she is at home or with you or him, the better. Doesn't mean to be "too available or needy or a doormat" but, I have seen zero R's helped by cold or distant behavior. What are you asking?




That is my biggest dillema. I do have to get rid of the anger for sure.

One thing, I dont regret snooping because she was treating me so badly and having an affair and something had to give there. What I do regret is how i reacted to that. I was so angry the first day that I pushed her away so badly and that may be something she never recovers from.

People cheating or leaving, often vilify their spouse to justify their action. If they can provoke the LBSer into misbehaving or losing their temper, it validates their choice to leave or cheat. You fueled her fire. Stop that. Calmly insist on respectful behavior and model it towards her, esp in front of your son. Now that you know of the A, is there any point to further snooping? Other than for some legal reasons in the event of a divorce and only IF it's relevant in that state, I submit there's no value in further snooping.


She did tell me when we recon the first time, she felt so guilty about the affair that she was rude and distant to me on purpose hopint that I would lose my call and justify her actions.

Yes-See my note above. Don't try to reconcile until you know you can handle it better. You might not get a 3rd or 4th chance but if you do, don't blow it.


But i was so nice to her and patient when she came back and that made her more angry. Her exact words. She felt more guilty the nicer I was to her. Like I said, something had to give.

What does that mean? You stopped being patient and nice? Or she left anyhow? At some point she'll have to know you won't hang it over her head or make her climb Mt Everest to "prove" her worth to you. Or she won't bother trying to recon.

When you model acceptance and understanding of why she left and own your contribution to the problems, and change your behavior and make those changes real, SHE WILL CHANGE...regardless of whether you recon, she'll wonder if she's missing out on the "best" you, and now some OW will get the benefits of the work you did as married people. Like she got the "practice" you and some OW will get the finished final product....all the things she wanted from you, finally...you have to be a man only a fool would leave. But no woman wants to be tortured the rest of her life b/c of a mistake. And even though I do NOT condone affairs, I have to say, most women who have A's, feel justified when they are, b/c of some serious issues in their m, which you know. Meaning, she had her reasons. I'm Not defending her A, I'm just saying she's not insane to have had one or for leaving.


My oldest son says that she is not happy right now. That she loses her temper for the slightest things.

Oh, trouble in paradise? Then it's your job to be the better choice, isn't it? Model that behavior...with no expectations. Give it way more time with consistent changes in you, and then triple the time you allotted.

I really dont know what I want for sure at the moment. I wish I could be more like you were 25 when you decided that you would lovingly detach and close the door but not lock it.

I backslid a lot. Lots of 2 steps forward and one back...I was also at this longer than you have been. I met some wonderful people here, and was very helped by some people. There were a few men who were particularly good for me, and for whom I will be eternally grateful. And I had a wonderful DB coach. If I could only do one thing for my m again, it would be to get a good DB coach who I really "got" and who "got" me. I still re-read my notes from our conversations. They are very specific and detailed in their advice, and as expensive as people say they are, divorce is way more expensive... I also had a good MC, and friends, and read as much as possible, worked out, GAL, detached, etc. I made a lot of mistakes. I still do.

You say you have a dilemma and I"m not sure I get that. You can move forward in your life in a way that isn't rude or cold to your w. Do you see that?


Somedays I think I am there and then I miss her so much.

I have been following your advice to Denver and 2step, ( 2 great guys) and am starting to see more and more that I need to be friendlier to her but not initiate any type of R talk.

That is the way to go right?

Yes I think so. Do not bring up the R at all. If she does, veer off it, if all she's doing is probing...b/c if she is actually moving back toward you and has clarity, then you LISTEN....but if she's just teasing or playing around or not even thinking much about it, pay no attention. I would emotionally ignore those comments unless they are crystal clear and then cross that bridge when you get to it. You avoid needless confusion this way. I mean, you don't want to goof around wondering and obsessing, unless she's really clear and committed to the M, and you'll know if and when that happens....Make sense? I think that's a ways off, fyi. But not hopeless.

Thanks for checking in 25. I dont know how you maintain a job and do so much councelling.

We are all blessed that you have come forward.

9

I'm on spring break, and just finished a huge project so I have more free time, for now. It ends soon though. But I am happy if this helps.

[Denver_2010]

Great advice you just got there 9. And thanks for the shout out to 2Step and myself!

My one thought... you nailed it yourself, and 25 drove it home... you have to stop punishing your W for what she has done and what she is doing. That is not our job ... it can't be if we hope to salvage our M's. If you love your W and want to reconcile the M, then make all of your contact as positive as possible. If you are unsure and/or just can't have positive contact ... then limit your contact with her for now and focus on figuring out what YOU want here.

BITS
Denver

[FaithnAK]

you have to stop punishing your W for what she has done and what she is doing.
Denver

^^

FORGIVE yourself, FORGIVE her, and better yourself. HER LIFE; YOUR LIFE; You can't fix, control, or better HER life. You can only control yours. BUT by bettering yourself and moving forward, you CAN make HER choice easier. It's up to you, but YOU have to do it without expectations.

You have to except the fact that you are second choice....and who here wants to be second choice? How do you become first choice? Let go and be a new better you. Validation is simply letting her go and becoming a new you....If she wants to be with you ...SHE WILL.

[ninelives]

All great advice thanks so much because the anger was getting so exhausting at times.

She has made comments that makes our R almost hopeless. Things like

" You are not the man I thought you were and will never be and I am not the woman you thought I was , we are two different people , totally from two different ends of the spectrum or two people exactly the same; two scatterbrains. Crazy huh?

I could never love you again, I know that no matter what we tried"

She said that Easter weekend , then spent the night in my room with me and my son while we cuddled and spooned at times. I kissed her head, rubbed her back etc....

Its all so confusing. But we havent really talked nice to each other since.

25: I really want to be nice to her this mother's day as it is the first one since her mom passed in March and I KNOW she will be down. I also know OM will go over the top to try and make her feel better.

I thought I was working towards being through to her but in the last couple of days, I realize that I want her back more than ever and IT doesnt make sense to me. WHY do i still love her so much? I know there is the family dynamic and I want my kids to be truly happy and they want us back together soooo badly but its more than that.

I believe she is making such a huge mistake that she will regret for the rest of her life. I sometimes "Feel " her missing us as a family. Could she truly be in love with OM and believe she has a good future there?

I WILL listen to all this good advice. I PROMISE. I havent in the past and some people have given up on me on this board as a waste of time and good advice but I think the biggest epiphany I have had is that I have to FORGIVE her for real.

BTW 25: I am legally separated and we have divided all the assets and I did get a fair settlement. Actually, my lawyer could not believe that she did not touch my pension.

Thanks AGAIN for the excellent advice.

9

[♪CS♪]

I thought I was working towards being through to her but in the last couple of days, I realize that I want her back more than ever and IT doesnt make sense to me. WHY do i still love her so much? I know there is the family dynamic and I want my kids to be truly happy and they want us back together soooo badly but its more than that.

It will continue to be confusing for as long as you continue to focus on the outcome. As HARD as it is, you need to break this. DO. Not what, why, when how?

I believe she is making such a huge mistake that she will regret for the rest of her life. I sometimes "Feel " her missing us as a family. Could she truly be in love with OM and believe she has a good future there?

And then...

I WILL listen to all this good advice. I PROMISE.

Really? I hope so. I really do. But you need to get past the thoughts and feeeeelings above.

[gr8 day 2B alive]

She said that Easter weekend , then spent the night in my room with me and my son while we cuddled and spooned at times. I kissed her head, rubbed her back etc....

9, this is weak.

I thought I was working towards being through to her but in the last couple of days, I realize that I want her back more than ever and IT doesnt make sense to me. WHY do i still love her so much? I know there is the family dynamic and I want my kids to be truly happy and they want us back together soooo badly but its more than that.

You are still enmeshed with her life.
This is natural, start doing things that difine yourself without her in the picture.

I believe she is making such a huge mistake that she will regret for the rest of her life. I sometimes "Feel " her missing us as a family. Could she truly be in love with OM and believe she has a good future there?

This will pass, I felt it too. Let her choices and consequences be hers. Don't try to save her.
You saving her just convinces her more that she is makin ghte right choice.

I really want to be nice to her this mother's day as it is the first one since her mom passed in March and I KNOW she will be down. I also know OM will go over the top to try and make her feel better

What do think he's going to do?

[OnMyWay]

I really want to be nice to her this mother's day as it is the first one since her mom passed in March and I KNOW she will be down. I also know OM will go over the top to try and make her feel better

What do think he's going to do?

Her feelings are NOT your responsibility. Nor should you try to affect her feelings/emotions when you so obviously have "ulterior motives" and any attempts you make will be seen as such. Don't assume she'll be "Down" or assume ANYTHING at all about her. What the other man does or doesn't do is beyond your control, so don't worry about it.

This is not a positive thought process.

This is not detachment.

[islander]

do not do anything for her on mothers day 9! this is not mission 25...but mission 9