18 Wheels and a Dozen Roses

[AJM80]

What do you guys suggest doing when that dance thing is going on - like H is very chatty, very interested in spending time with us, then he pulls it back and is less responsive. I don't think I should go dark or anything that extreme...building good times, showing positive time together is possible, etc seems to be working towards something good.

One step forward, 2 steps back? Do I take a step back too (so he has to come further forward to keep this moving or do I just stand/keep with the same....I kind of think ignoring his mood changes could be a good thing? Maybe be a little less available too, but nothing major.

I think I am being too available. Text messaging really messes me up....I've switched my plan so I literally have to pay if I talk too much

H has come nearly every Monday for the last 2 months. I assumed he was coming this Monday...until 8pm rolled around and he texted about coming 2 days later in the week. I kept it calm, just asked what happened tonight and that I assumed he got caught up at work because of some big world events. Sent him a pic of D, told him good luck on his big presentation Tues. He said he was sorry if there was a misunderstanding, that

[OnMyWay]

OMW - think about whether it would help your situation with W to let her know that what she thinks and says to you has registered and did matter. I don't mean a big convo or anything, more just showing the little things.

Funny you mention this, as I dealt with this tonight. I'll not hijack your thread, however.

What do you guys suggest doing when that dance thing is going on - like H is very chatty, very interested in spending time with us, then he pulls it back and is less responsive. I don't think I should go dark or anything that extreme...building good times, showing positive time together is possible, etc seems to be working towards something good.

I've found when this happens and we've had a good night or my W puts herself out there too far and I anticipate she'll do the dance, I go dark first and become lax in my responses until I can tell she "feels safe" again, then get back at it. I've good luck with that. Definitely let him set the pace. With a WAH, the whole Mars/Venus thing seems to fit. Let him go into his cave and sweat it out. When he comes back, you act "as-if" nothing happened.

[AJM80]

Thanks! I am loving you and Sparks lately - it's been awesome to see how things are moving for you (esp. when I am feeling stalled) and you guys help me see things I am overlooking.

I'm coming over to see how you dealt with things, then I am cleaning, finishing dinner/laundry, and deciding where I will go tonight while H is around. Will give him space with the kids, but keep things very relaxed and normal.

[sparks14]

Hi - thanks, this is really amazing, meaty stuff and it's helping me understand a little more, I think. One of the things I have truly taken away from all this is that women have no idea how much men actually listen and internalize what we say. I wish my H and I had been able to shared in a healthier way what I was frustrated with/happy with and what he was feeling/going through so that when we didn't have time to stay connected, we still understood what the other was doing/putting into the relationship.

Sorry that I have been MIA. My S is still fighting being sick, so I have either been taking care of him or catching up on sleep. I am looking forward to the day when he is past this. Poor little guy.

Ok, so OWM has been providing some pretty amazing, meaty (I laughed) stuff. The dude has things figured out and provides a great outside the box perspective. I have really enjoyed reading his posts.

I think the response from his DB coach is spot on. I think it is all about controlling push/pull behaviors. It can be pretty tough to make the decision in the heat of a moment, but it will get better with practice. You just have to eliminate the words and actions that will push him further from you.

I think you have witnessed the instances when he has followed you or investigated your feelings when you are upset. I find this very positive.

[sparks14]

One thing that H said - he didn't know when Mothers Day was and it was stressing him out that he might have missed it (we had a bad 1st mother's day and he really hurt my feelings, plus his Mom is clearly having a hard time with all this and he doesn't want to let her down) It is this coming Sunday!

This has definitely been on my mind. It is my W's first Mother's Day, so I have been working on the correct approach to it. I picked out a card written from the perspective of her child wishing her a happy first Mother's Day. I feel it will be best to avoid anything directly from me right now that tells her what a special wife she is. I think the same approach from Valentine's is important here.

To make the sentiment count, I decided to do something from our S. Just like the photo mugs, I think this would be a greatly appreciated approach.

I had an idea of what I wanted to do, so I started hunting for examples. I found these cool canvases that I could put our son's handprint on. You can find them on google by searching for "Pearhead Blue Canvas Handprint" to get an idea. I went to the local crafts store and bought all of the supplies to do them myself. I think she would really appreciate a cool memento from our S that she could put on her wall.

My intention will be to allow my W to celebrate and recognize this special day but keep the focus on her and our son. Of course, she will know that everything was from me. I just don't want it to be anything that would cross the boundaries right now.

[OnMyWay]

Good stuff. My approach to Mom's day is to focus on MY mother. Then, I'll also turn my attention to my D and help her focus on HER mother. AJM80, you've offered up some great ideas I'll probably institute them to help D with the process. I intend to help D make this her best Mother's Day ever. I want no credit for it. It is all about the two of them.

AJM80, unfortunately, you may be at a loss as father's day will be a holiday for DBing for you, as you can't DB your own Mother's day. It's a reality - not trying to be mean here. Just set you expectations low. If H does come through for your kids, I think the focus should be on the kids. They will appreciate your love, which is paramount. If H had a secret hand in the process, he'll feel good and every one will benefit from the honesty of well placed intentions.

On the other hand, if you get shorted - again, being realistic, not nasty - chalk it up to a bad situation and still make the most of your Mom day with your kids.

Either way, you win!!! Your attitude will be everything here, so don't let anything get you down. It's your day. Make the most of it with your family regardless.

[AJM80]

H came today, brought a card and had the kids sign it/scribble. It was a cute one and clear he had thought about which card in store. Took my necklace to get repaired, as requested. Went with us to the store, then watched D's swim class, then stayed with napping kids while I did some errands. Would have been nice if he had folded laundry or done some dishes from lunch w/kids instead of napping/watching golf while I was gone, but I still appreciated his help today and let him know that.

I was touched by the card.

My sister said last night that before she comes to visit me in a few weeks, she needs to talk to her kids about what is going on at my house. I let H know it would be soon and he said he had also had that on his mind. It's a sad thing, when you have to tell the children, even nephews/nieces.

So, with those 2 things in mind, I said to him, I think we're making a mistake. And I left it at that. He was leaving soon and I wasn't looking for some big discussion. He started to question me, but realized he had a train to catch.

I'm really torn lately, but I think my path forward is going to be relocating. He's having his cake and eating it too, and enough is enough. I don't mind him doing his laundry here or us sharing meals, but this is not a forever scenario where I quietly keep house and he drops in a few times a week. But there's no reason to go into all that with him/discuss it. I did need to share that I think this is the wrong direction, for us & the kids, to walk away from a marriage. That I still think that.

I kind of want to start packing the house and move on to the next level. I think I am going to give things a week or two, then let him know I'd like a response to my email (if he choses to do so) when I get back from vacation w/the kids in early June. Start the clock, so to speak, 180 away from being pretty chill about everything, BUT not get emotional, clingy, controlling, etc. A fine line, right? Moving forward with my life, but maintaining a cordial relationship.

[OnMyWay]

Hmmm (there it is again, LOL), let me think on this some.

First, I'll definitely say letting him know you believe this is a mistake is good. I bet he had a lot to think about on his train ride.

Also, if he's coming over and participating, you could be right about the laundry/dinner thing. It's one thing to have him there reintegrating/building a connection, but another thing entirely to use you as a doormat. Don't make his chosen life easy.

However, I'm just not sure of your motivations. If you want to rebuild your M, moving away may not get you to that goal. If he's anything like I suspect, he'll just sulk and give up. You'll have to be prepared to loose him. It almost seems as if you are hoping he'll chase you. If you must move for financial considerations, etc., then fine - you gotta do whatcha gotta do. But make sure you aren't moving out of spite, to punish him, or to try to get him to pursue. I think that would be a mistake.

Forget the email. He didn't respond before, he obviously doesn't want to. Stop trying to force him. It is fair to ask where he is on the M topic and make some sort of decision, although I'd suggest not doing that. Has he made any progress on himself? Is he still with the OW? Does he want to come back? You need to know where he is at, but know he probably changes his mind all the time, so that may not be relevant. Like in my last post, I was told my W wants to fix this, but has absolutely no idea of how to do it. Your H could be the same and he may be trying things out his own way, I dunno.

A fine line for sure. Is moving forward with your life while maintaining a cordial relationship what you want? If so, sounds like a plan. If not, I think this is what you'll be settling for. AJM80, you seem like a very realistic individual. However, you are dealing with someone who is the exact opposite right now. Putting practical pressure on the sitch will not yield practical results. A good 180 for you may be to be completely unreasonable or at least totally unpredictable. Still avoid the emotional, clingy, controlling, etc., but try shaking things up a bit first before you go all out and pull the plug/move.

[AJM80]

Haha, this is so complicated and I needed to dump my brain and think about it..

I do think telling him was the right thing/that I did it the right way. And I am giving each of us space so he can digest it. Thanks for agreeing.

I don't know if OW is still in the picture - I don't ask and he doesn't volunteer. My email was partly temperature taking/wanting to know that, but it was mostly an attempt to start a conversation. Out of nowhere he's changed the days he visits from s/m/r to s/w/r - he's said it is to "space out the days", but you can see it's still back to back. That makes me mad. It did cross my mind that her stripping schedule @ work may have changed. It's been about a year since they met.

Financially and support-wise, moving gives me a lot more options. I don't expect him to chase me - he's stuck here because of his job. I don't think he'd leave it for us because he'd feel he needs to stay at it to provide for us. A little background that I am not sure I shared, just before I found out about OW, we moved 45 min away from where we'd lived for several years, to suburbs. So I am in a position where my family is 10 hours away, my car-less friends are an hour train ride away, and I'm limited on going out/doing things because I have 2 little ones. I'd like to save my marriage, yes. But I am practical and I struggle to imagine living here another year in this sitch. My family is putting some pressure on - more little comments and eye rolling type stuff, so that is surely influencing my current feelings.

What are thinking as far as shaking it up? I could always do typical woman thing and go chop my hair off. Lol - I kind of like it the way it is now, though.

Maybe I'll make a stand about visitation, that I agree he should spread it out and sun/tues/thurs works best for me? I just want some predictability. Again, that seems a bit controlling...

I wonder about pushing him to help more @ the house. I felt that he should on mothers day. Since he is working full time so I can stay at home - most of the time I feel like it's fair that I do most of the childcare/housework. I think I need to keep asking him to do "man chores" like carrying/lifting/fixing and being thankful when he does them.

It may be time for me to shell out for another coaching package.

I'd better send this ramble

[sparks14]

AJ - First of all... Happy belated Mother's Day!

However, I'm just not sure of your motivations. If you want to rebuild your M, moving away may not get you to that goal. If he's anything like I suspect, he'll just sulk and give up. You'll have to be prepared to loose him. It almost seems as if you are hoping he'll chase you. If you must move for financial considerations, etc., then fine - you gotta do whatcha gotta do. But make sure you aren't moving out of spite, to punish him, or to try to get him to pursue. I think that would be a mistake.

I think you know where I stand on this topic. We have gone back and forth many times in the past, so I was a bit disappointed that you are leaning towards moving again. OMW nailed it. This move may give you peace of mind, but I do not think it will help your M. I am all for staying and continuing to make progress with your H, but in the end, you will know your limitations and needs. You just need to be prepared for the potential outcomes of that decision. It is a very fine line.