You have to start out being honest. It's a long post that begins with the proposition about sleeping with a former lover as a means of deciding if you have feelings for them so that you know if you are ready to commit to a new lover.
That is either the poster not being honest with themself, or they need to look into what is "love" and what is "commitment".
It is not cruel. It is blunt and true.
I'd start there: be honest with myself or re-examine these concepts.
Agreed... You asked me to come see your thread and to post to you. Put a helmet on please, b/c I have some 2 x 4's and I'm not done reading your whole post. I WILL read it but stopped after 2 full pages so make this comment (but I'll read the rest later)...and so maybe you've addressed all my points but I want to make them b/c your sitch struck a chord in me.
You glossed over a few MAJOR things. You see yourself as the victim here, and I don't, at least not yet. You are sad b/c she wanted out but instead, , you showed her a thing or two and you filed...wow, have you read the DB books? I'm amazed at that choice. What was your goal? Be honest. What was your goal in filing for divorce? I'm guessing it was NOT SAVING YOUR M....
As my DB coach explained, "it is NOT our job to teach our spouses a lesson. Life does that". Same for "showing consequences" and all that, which is not to say "don't have boundaries or be a doormat." But lose the punitive tit for tat here....
MY TAKE ON HER LIFE... You worked hard to pay off your house VERY early, (losing a deduction that some financial advisors would have advised against losing) and she was not part of that decision. Oh...THEN you decided to be AWOL...when was that?
Oh it was WHEN You had FOUR small children at home!! All of whom are under the age of 7. That's when you chose to work MORE??? Oh, and She wanted TWO children........wth?
This is a recipe for disaster. I'm shocked that you are shocked.
So here's what my take on that situation FOR HER...A relentless set of demands on her...OMG you (excuse me, SHE HAS FOUR children under the age of 7)...and pretty much has been a single parent for most or chunks of that time. You're gone for hours at a time at work, and unless you do tar on roofs at 90'F in humid places, HER job is harder. She's never alone, never eats her food while it's still warm, changes diapers hourly or more, cares for the sick child, plays with the older ones or watches them, addresses the relentless crying that four kids that age produce, addresses the safety issues they create, never gets a full night's rrest, has to resolve their fighting, and never gets a moment to herself so when she day dreams, she makes it count. (I am a L and have worked full time, I have worked and had kids, I have done both part time, etc. I can honestly say that staying at home with young kids is the hardest of those options. I know what I'm talking about.
True, when the kids are older her life would get easier (if you let it) but that's impossible to see when you are SO sleep deprived and haven't had a minute to yourself in years, and your h puts demands on you and has no clue about why you are resentful, and he snoops on you and thinks your fantasies have nothing to do with HIS behavior or your lifestyle.
I have 3 kids born in 12 years and it's very hard to be alone all day with them and not get some adult relief.
Your w had them all FULL time while you pursued a financial goal you set unilaterally. She asked for a nanny or housecleaner and you said "NO WAY" as if she was being selfish?...The decision was made not to hire help for your wife b/c It wasn't important to YOU, so hey, it must not have sense and so it did not happen. Did you think she was asking for superficial bling to impress the neighbors? She was asking for HELP.... I feel moved to tears thinking of how her life was so much like my mothers, but it happened THIS century and decade...
What did you do for her when she asked for help? I mean BEFORE she threatened to leave you, what did you do to really assist her? It sounded as if you did nothing but say no.
I have to ask this... Why would you want more kids when your wife didn't? I cannot wrap my brain around that. I know some guys want more but when guys wnat more kids than their wives feel comfortable with, they "negotiate" with their wives and promise things like a nanny, or household help OR that the h's will work LESS, so all the work isn't dumped on their wife. You did none of these things. And she asked...
In hindsight, can you see that the money spent on hiring help would NOT have put you in the poor house. (Surely a breakdown, or a divorce cost more???) It's a quality of life issue and she had very little of that.
Last but not least, let me add that pregnancy and childbirth and the recovery thereafter, is a very under-rated event today. My aunt and grandmother both died in childbirth. It's easy to forget that historically that was the leading cause of death for women under 50, until our generation. Just b/c giving birth is safer does not mean it's easier. It's extremely exhausting to give birth, then you are handed a newborn with unrelenting physical and emotional needs...oh, and you are in pain and tired...AND you have other kids with their needs/pains/fears of being displaced so their emotional needs are peaking too and you have NOT slept a full night in months...AND you, the mother are ALSO going through the amount of hormonal changes reached in puberty, but ALL IN A MATTER OF DAYS... To me, her life sucked. To her, you were a big part of why it sucked. She has more children than she wanted, and you were AWOL at work at that time, and refused her requests for help. She sent out "red flares" into the universe that you ignored or argued about..and you somehow made her feel threatened by OW from the past AND present...when she was at her most vulnerable. And she retaliated...
Sorry but that's my take on that part of this. No wonder she resented you and fantasized about life with OMs...ANY OM...sorry but I really really get this. It hit a chord. Here's why.
My mother had 9 children in 12 years. She did not leave my father, but she gave up her life for us for 30 years and deeply deeply resented my father, who was "successful" at his job. At HIS WORK, he got bonus's for work well done, or promotions, or a new title, and awards, pats on the back, public recognition, or news articles, and people gave him accolades for his good smart work. He was highly successful.
My mother was an artist and musician. That all stopped when she had the first of 9 kids. What did she make? Oh, nothing. They had no money for her art/music and she had NO TIME or energy....so She changed AND WASHED over 50,000 diapers that were NOT disposable then, she scrubbed floors, made beds, did laundry, washed toilets and bath tubs, gave us baths, worked her a$$ off for my whole life and my earliest memories of her are her pregnant, washing a floor... My father wanted dinner at 6 regardless of how her day was and he rarely asked her how SHE was doing. My memory of him was in a suit with a briefcase with hot coffee and a paper in his arm, marching to the one car we had then...I wanted HIS life, not hers...
He never thanked her or told her she was a good mother until he was on his death bed. SHE had to attend his retirement ceremony and he was awarded a Silver medal from the VP of the USA...she got some roses from the agency...
How rewarding was her life? We all love her and she has a legacy of 27 grandchildren, etc. But she's 89 now and has Alzheimers...
In her 40's she finally got her own piano and started a small piano club. That was when she was, timewise, able to have some time of her own...she still did all the work in the house (or nagged/yelled at us to help.All on her) and cooked and did the yard work and built a treefort for us (painted it lavendar) and she made the tire swings, etc. Dad was busy "working"...he had an "important job"....I never saw my dad do any housework, although he eventually liked to cook.
Never had a maid unless she was bringing home another baby...amazing that men of today don't have insight into how this makes a woman feel, over time...and how demanding it is. RELENTLESS....I bet her libido was non-existent and I bet she resented your ML moves. Probably saw them as threatening to her very survival. Labor and birth are big physical deals, and emotional ones. If I had a child I did not want and my h wasn't a grateful expressive angel to me, I'd have a very hard time not wanting to hit him...
Sex??? OMG Not another pregnancy! Also, you said you lost 75 lbs. May I assume you needed to lose a lot of weight? So in her eyes, is it possible that to her, you let yourself go? Did she stay in shape after all those kids?
NEXT ISSUE... As for the OPs in both your lives, you both have held onto the events and you both use them as swords of Damacles to hold over each other's heads. yes you started it, but it's just crazy now to hold onto it. Clearly, Those issues/affairs whatever, were NEVER resolved! And neither one of you grasps the concept of FORGIVENESS...
Please note....a key element of this, regardless of what else you hear about A's physical or emotional, etc, and exposing versus keeping it between you two, Versus confronting, etc etc. one thing everyone agrees on is that if you take the spouse back to work on the m, YOU DON'T THROW IT IN THEIR FACE AGAIN...EVER...either one of you. But You both have done that, and worse, you've both acted in retaliation and you both snoop and lack trust at core levels. Very toxic.
There's a lot more to this and I'll try to post more but I see a lot of tit for tat in your behavior. In fact you have made several mistakes but the good news is that it means YOU can probably change your behaviors and that will change the dynamic you two have.
There are others who are saying you are being a wimp and that may be true. I have not finished your long post...
But your w's views are not insane. I can say that for years, your w's life has been unduly hard, you ignored her needs b/c you were always gone pursuing a goal of YOURS, you added 2 children to her she did not want and you could have waited or spread them out more, or stopped having more OR helped her more... You did not do any of those things. You maxed her out. She wore out.
Of course she feels trapped! Who wouldn't? Thank God she's not abusive. I just see such a recipe for disaster in having 4 kids (the kids are not the problem, the way YOU "chose" to have them IS, and the division of labor was very unfair to her, for a long time.) I assume you now "get this"...right?
A 16 month old is a handful. And She has 3 other kids, none of whom can help much with the younger ones.
I'll post more when I've read more but I am not surprised she wants out. The irony is how "free" you say she'll be, which you resent, but for years you had that life & never saw it as unfair! Wow, double standards abound... You made the financial decisions until your fear of losing her made you fork over some money, and now you say she's selfish to want it...
yi yi yi...(SIGH) as I said, I'm not finished reading your post but since you asked, I had to offer up something...
No, it's not hopeless. She loves the kids but wants to survive as an individual, and even have a life before she's 50. Maybe a bit of romance.
You have some 180's to do. What are they?
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
I'll get to the rest of your post and situation today if possible. My "spring break" is over soon but I've found myself back in DB land. (I used to check in every few months to see how my DB buddies were doing. Many leave this site so you don't know the end result. Did they feel defeated or did they work out and think there wasn't much to say? I think now that more of us who restored the m's should come by and chime in.)
It does amuse and irk me, when I see people who did NOT DB well, who lost their m, come here to advise others to do what THEY did, when clearly their approach failed. Beware of the punitive people who want to shove their righteousness down spouses throat. My gut says that's why you filed (?)
They are not coming from a place of love, or restored M's. Then again, sometimes no matter what you do, the m can end, and then you go to the forums here, that discuss surviving a Div. Bottom line, do you want to be "right" or do you want to save and restore your m? (I add the word "restore" b/c it means more than simply not divorcing, though that is a step towards restoring).
Never say never. Even now, as we are planning a cruise for our 30th anniversary, I don't simply assume we are "all better." A good marriage is a work in progress. Ours sure is.
In this state, 1/3 of divorces filed are never completed. Therefore they don't end up divorced.
I don't recall what state you are in nor do I know why you filed, when it comes to DBing. I guess it was a huge ultimatum? Now you are in a place you don't want to be.
Okay so I'll finish catching up but if you could summarize things, that would be lots faster. I don't need the blow by blows or more than one example of something.
Do you still want to save your m?
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
I don't simply assume we are "all better."