The Roller Coaster Keeps on Rolling

[25yearsmlc]

You asked me to look at your thread. So I did. Put a helmet on b/c some 2 x 4's are coming your way.

Please read and give me any feedback that you can. I know that this is long. I'm sorry.

Unfortunately, this update isn't nearly as positive that i'd like it to be.

After weeks of moving closer to me, W has pulled away some over the past 8 days or so.

W and I have continued daily contact and have still hung our almost every day.

There is a lot to write about, so I will try to hit the main events, conversations and statements as well as I can.

Friday April 1st - W and I went out drinking. Ended up in a long conversation a about R. Subject of OM came up and I wasn't able to hold back my contempt. I explained to my W how OM was a vulture and had preyed on her during a time when she was emotionally vulnerable. W stated that "I might agree with you in 20 years, but right now I don't." She ended up defending him by saying that she didn't have anything bad to say about him and that he is a really nice guy. She told me, "I hate that I have to feel that I have to defend OM with you, but I feel like I do."

So you drank, did R talk, and challenged her choices on OM so she defended those choices. 3 big mistakes on your end.

My bad. I f'd up here. I NEED to stop engaging in conversation about OM. And I certainly need to stop criticizing him with W. I know that I am doing it bc I have this need to try and convince my W to agree with my feelings on the subject. This is not going to happen and I need to just accept it. This behavior only puts my W and OM on the same team, in opposition of me. Not conducive to my goals, and not in line with the 180's and life changes that I have worked so hard to achieve.

Yes to all of above...enough already. Rise above this so that you look better when you are compared to him, which you will be. Thing is, if you are honest, you know YOU will win in some respects if you simply focus on being a great father b/c women are moved by loving interactions of their children with their father figure . It's a turn on. He cannot win there. But you can blow it.

The conversation got heated, and I did have to walk away to cry a bit and get myself together. I ended up taking W to the house that she is renting. This was the first time that she has let me know where she lives. I walked her in and left.

Don't cry in front of her again.

We had a very good rest of the weekend. Took SS to Rockies game on Saturday night and to an Avalanche game on Sunday night. We had a great time.

Tuesday April 5th - SS has serious issues with school. He has an IEP and has been determined to have severe emotional disability. He is in his first year at his middle school and has struggled all year. The school had a meeting regarding some recent suspensions and I had told W that I would go with her if she wanted me to. Before our S, I was very involved with these meetings, but W stopped having me go when she left.

Why would you need her approval/permission to go to YOUR stepson's IEP?? Just go. Is there some issue as to your role in his life?

W decided that she wanted me to go to this one, which seems to indicate that she is welcoming my involvement in SS's life again. It was 2 1/2 hours of listening and fighting with school administrators about how they are not meeting SS's needs. This is another story, but the point is that I took the point bc I am a lawyer and have become familiar with the laws protecting children with IEPs. W is at her wits end with the schools and is under a tremendous amount of stress just trying to get her son an education.

After this meeting, W and I had to rush to our MC session. I told MC that I was feeling a bit down bc I don't have any security in the R with W. That I am trying to be patient and understanding, but that it has been wearing on me.


W listened to what I had to say and then went into how she is hesitant about what is going on with us. How she has not had time to process everything. That the past several weeks has been a whirlwind for her. How she doesn't feel that she has let herself really think about what is going on... that she has just let herself get caught up in spending time with me, which she has enjoyed. But that she has recently (past few days) been thinking that she isn't sure about anything and needs to process her feelings.

MC looked at me and said, 'you must feel like you don't know what you should do. Damned if you do, damned if you don't'. I agreed by saying that I feel like W is saying that I am smothering her, but that if I back off, then I will appear to be the same guy that she left.

In response, W said that she was not saying that I was smothering her. That she understands the 'damned if I do, damned if I don't' feeling. That what she is saying is that she just feels that she needs to take the time to process things, not that I need to do anything differently. MC even asked her, 'what do you want Denver to do?' W said that she didn't want me to do anything different.

Very confusing stuff.

In the course of all of this, the subject of the OM came up. W told MC that part of the hesitancy that she feels comes across when she asks herself 'why give Denver another chance?'. She said that she wonders if she is making the right decision to take a risk on me, and leave behind the chance with OM who treated her and SS so well. That sometimes, she feels torn.

But... that I feel like home to her... that she has always loved me... that she has invested 8 years in us and feels that she should give us a chance to work now that I have made so many substantial changes.

Your changes, over time, will = change she can trust is real. Do it for you, not for her or as a tactic to get her. She'll want to be with the finished product of Denver, b/c she'd hate the idea that she got you in rough draft form and the final version was the improved cool Denver/everything she's wanted in a man, etc...all for some OW?? Hmmm, not so fun for her to lose you then.

W also said that she feels like she is getting to know a completely different person (me) with all of my changes. And that she thinks that she is different too. That even though things were not good bw us before she left, that there was something that seemed to work with our R the way that it was. That she wonders if it will work now that we have both changed. (TALK ABOUT DAMNED IF YOU DO, DAMNED IF YOU DON'T!)

I was upset after the MC session and was very quiet on the drive home. I apologized for being quiet and W said that she understood that I was hurt by some of the things that were said.

When we got home, we talked for about 20 minutes before she got in her car and left. She reiterated that she does not feel like I am smothering her and that she just wants me to be myself and continue doing the things that I am doing... no changes as far as contact etc.

She brought up that she just isn't sure about moving back into the house at the end of May (when her lease is up). That she feels that maybe she is rushing things for both her and SS. That she had conversation with SS and that SS is also unsure about moving back in. That SS wants to move in bc he loves me and bc I have been in his life for a long time. But that he also likes the idea of it being just him and W. And also became close to OM and so doesn't understand why OM can't be in his life if I am.

We talked about the wall that W has up with me and how she is having a hard time letting it down. I told her that is why I suspected that she has a difficult time telling me that she loves me when I say it to her. She said that is right.

I told W that I was upset bc it seemed that this night was a step back for 'us'. She said that she didn't look at it that way. That she thought it was just part of the process.

Lastly, we talked about her moving back into the house. She said she just can't see herself moving back into the house. That it is different for her bc she moved out, I didn't. That she started a new life and it is just 'weird' for her. But, then she said that sometimes she can see herself moving back in. She has considered maybe we could sleep in different beds for a while... and she has considered that maybe she could get a cheaper place on a month to month lease for a while. I told her that I would accept whatever she decides and that I am going to be patient. I even asked her if she wanted to go look for apartment... that I would help her. She said 'no' that she is just leaving the option open for now.

I was had planned on hanging out with SS while W was at her show. W's friend was suppose to go up with her.

SS ended up being invited to spend the night at one of his friend's house... and W's friend backed out of going with her. W texted me and asked, "do you want to go?" ... I responded, "do you want me to go?"

Why ask this? Assume an adult woman who invites you somewhere, by definition, wants you there. Take her at her word.

... W said 'sure!' ... I then said, "just want to make sure that you want me to go. I feel paranoid about smothering you." W responded, 'pick you up at 9?' ... I said, 'sounds good'...
You are Not coming off as a strong confident man, sorry...

W had considered it as a possibility at the time, but didn't bring it up, so neither did I. So I responded, 'I did, but you never brought it up. And besides, you won't even stay with me at our house' ... I kind of laughed when I said this. W said, 'I know. I won't stay in our house as a guest. I just won't. It seems weird. Like I am just some girl that you met.'.... I said, 'but you are not just some girl... you are my W... It is not weird for me at all... but I also understand how you feel.'

Then, somehow, we got into conversation about her moving back into the home.

AGAIN??? OMG...

W told me again, but this time with a little more certainty, that she just doesn't think that she will be ready to move back into the home by the end of May. I again told her that was fine if that's what she decided.

THEN SHE'S NOT READY...OBVIOUSLY...she's being very clear.

No more R talk on Saturday night. W had her show and we drove home. Good conversation.

Today...

Had lunch.
[/b]
For some reason, I was again extremely bothered as we sat and ate. I got really quiet bc I was just thinking about everything that W has said over the past week.

You have got to be upbeat around her. Not a drag, not coming to the table with all your needs and fears...fake it til you make it if you have to. Sounds gimmicky but it can work wonders. Plus, I think where the head goes, the heart will follow.

After we ate, SS went outside the restaurant to do what 12 year old boys do... lol... W turned to me and said, 'you are acting weird'. I said, 'just quiet'. W then says, 'we have too much of this.' I said, 'what do you mean?' ... W: 'this was always part of our problem... we'd sit and just not say anything to one another... I don't want this to be my life' ...

I can understand her feeling that way. Can you? All your contact with her is consumed by your needs for reassurance she doesn't yet feel. And that is a turn off.


I immediately realized that I had reverted into some bad behavior. I apologized. I then told W that I was just upset and that i was feeling impatient with things. We talked a little, but W was clear upset and maybe even a little irritated. She began to tear up at one point. This was clearly bc she is confused about how she feels and is feeling pressured about making some decision on our M/R. I apologized again ... told her that I know that my impatience was about me... that I know that this is not going to happen on my timeline ... She told me that I hadn't done anything wrong, but that she just isn't sure about things. I'm obviously paraphrasing a lot here.

I took W and SS back to where they are living and went home.

W called a little later to tell me that she wasn't mad.

OMG--YET MORE R TALK!!??? JUST "BE" FOR AWHILE. NO ANALYZING...I'm worn out reading this, and can't imagine living it....BACK OFF!

We spoke for about 90 minutes. W again talked about not being sure about what she is doing. That things have happened so fast. That she feels that she is rushing herself with her lease ending in May. That she is still processing.
...There was lots of talk about OM That she just isn't sure.

This conversation was very hurtful to me, so it is very much a blur. At one point, I told W that maybe we should just take some time apart and not talk so that she can figure things out... W kind of just ignored this suggestion.

That was anothor opportunity for you to get off the phone and give her some space. Delay the move in, clearly.

At another point, I told W that maybe she should just reengage OM and figure out what she wants to do with that R before we consider anything else bw she and I.

WHAT ARE YOU DOING??? WOW...


I told W that it seemed that she is reluctant to completely let go of her 'plan B' and that as long as that was there, it was going to be very hard for us to move forward. Again, W just kind of ignored the suggestion.

IT'S OBVIOUS SHE'S RELUCTANT, TO SAY THE LEAST...

At the end of the conversation, I asked W if she wanted me to do anything differently, if she wanted me to stop calling and hanging out. She laughed a little and said 'no... that she had already told me that I am not doing anything wrong.' VERY F'ing Confusing.

NOT CONFUSING TO ME...BACK OFF, BACK OFF, STOP TALKING. STOP THE TALKING AND JUST CHANGE INTO WHO YOU NEED TO BE. BE A MAN ONLY A FOOL WOULD LEAVE. AND NO MORE R TALK FOR AT LEAST 90 DAYS and even then, don't you be the one to initiate it...

Jumping back in the conversation a bit... W told me that sometimes she can't believe that my changes are for real and wonders what will happen after my 'challenge' of getting her back is gone... if I will go back to being the way that I was. I told her that this won't happen bc my changes have been for me. Bc I decided months ago that I don't want to live my life as I was living it before she left.

Just show her this. Stop talking about it...OMG please no more R talk and talk of your changes IS R Talk and it's more pursuit. Can you see that?

I asked her if she had watched MWD's video on the WAW that I sent her a month or so ago. She said that she had and that it seemed like it was almost dead on with what happened with us. But her question was how WAW's who give their H's a chance to show the significant changes that can happen do it.

More pursuit...(sigh....)Why ask her anything about the film you gave her, which itself was pursuit??

W went on to say how she had to push her 'in love' feeling so far down in order to gain the strength to leave, that she doesn't know how to get those back. She wonders if WAW's who return to their M's get those feelings back or just accept that they are gone and then just end up being unhappy anyway...

I asked W what made her fall in love me 8 years ago. She told me that it was how I made her feel safe, my smile, and that I made her laugh. I then asked her if I no longer have a nice smile... jokingly.

MORE R TALK...MORE PURSUIT...AND HOW'S IT WORKING FOR YOU?? OH it's not. So you do it again and again b/c maybe now this day, with the barometric pressure as it is, and it's Tuesday, so maybe NOW she'll want back in...????

I told her that I will be fine however this turns out.

wish that were believable.

That I still viewed her leaving me as the best thing that has ever happened... to me and for our M. That I now know how to love and be loved, know that I want to be married, and that I think that I know how to be a good H. That if it is not with her, that it will be with someone else. I reiterated that I wanted desparately for it to be with W, but that I will be okay either way.

W then said that she doesn't know how to take that... that in one way it sounds like I don't need her in my life.

OMG PLEASE, JUST STOP TALKING TO HER ABOUT WHERE YOU ARE IN A GIVEN MOMENT IN TIME...

I said that wasn't the case, that I do need and want her in my life. But that I know what I want and am going to find it if she decides that things aren't going to work for us.

I told W that I believe that we have an opportunity that most couples do not...
This is when I asked w if she wanted me to stop contacting her and she laughed and said that she didn't want me to change anything.

W said, 'I think that we just need to keep having these conversations'.

NO YOU DON'T.


So, the bottom line is W is struggling with letting OM go completely bc she is unsure about whether we can make our M work. She is not in love with me right now, and wonders if she can find the place BLAH BLAH BLAH. LOVE IS AT LEAST PARTLY A CHOICE....IT'S NOT A WHIM OR A BRANCH THAT FALLS ON YOUR HEAD AND LANDS ON YOUR LIFE...

Bottom line is for me... I am frustrated and impatient.

IT SHOWS...AND IT'S NOT A 180 AT ALL...IT IS MORE OF THE SAME...

I am beginning to wonder if this is worth it.

IF YOU GAVE REAL DBing a chance you could find out. But you don't. You repeat the same mistakes a lot. A whole lot. Back off. Back off. Back off...

And I am confused.

it shows.

W spends time with me almost every day. She says that she enjoys talking to me and spending that time with me. That she fears losing me if she makes the wrong decision. That she loves me and always has... and that I feel like 'home' to her.

SHE HAS TO FEAR LOSING YOU AND YOU ARE NOT GIVING HER THAT CHANCE. YOU ARE SO AVAILABLE AND CONSTANTLY TAKING THE TEMPERATURE OF THE M/R THAT SHE HAS NO CHANCE TO SENSE WHAT SHE MIGHT LOSE...THIS IS A NO BRAINER. BACK OFF. LET HER WONDER WHAT IS GOING ON WITH YOU. LET HER FEAR THAT SHE MAY NOT HAVE FOREVER TO WAIT FOR "FEELINGS" TO RETURN...HAVE SOME MYSTERY IN YOUR LIFE. WHAT ARE YOUR GAL ACTIVITIES? WHAT ARE THE 180'S??


I just don't know friends... I am emotionally exhausted... I am sad ... and there is a part of me that feels like giving up. I have a huge trial where a man's life is at stake in 1 week and all I want to do is crawl into bed, cry and sleep.

Sorry that this post isn't the 'inspiration' that it has been in recent weeks... and I'm sorry that I am not going to go back and edit it...

BITS
Denver

HOPE THIS HELPS...