The big punch

[Redo]

Update....

After receiving draft decree from wife 2 weeks ago, I sent an email back to her on some issues of contention i had on the decree. contention issues were.

1: Wife wanting sole custody of daughter
2: Wife placing demand that i visit daughter 12 times before i can bring her home.
3: Since wife is staying more than 200 miles from me, i've asked her to share the cost for daughter to travel. This is because i did not place a domicle restriction on her. But she has not agreed for this too.

W's lawyer just sent the response back. Basically wife not agreeing to any of the issues. I think i've had it. Just called up the lawyer i was using for guidance and asked her to represent me. I dont think i can handle the logistics of divorce and deal with the emotions at the same time. As 25 said, lawyers can handle the nasty details while i can concentrate on being a good dad to my daughter.

[♪CS♪]

Good for you man.

Fight for your D. This is #1 for you right now. Great to see you standing strong.

[25yearsmlc]

Though I'm not at all surprised she has done this, I'm relieved you are finally hiring a L...thought you already had but, oh well.

Better late than never. Once the decree comes out and IF she gets sole custody, it's very hard to get it to change later. So you fight now so you won't have to fight more later. There is more to it, (like being able to tell your d you honestly did fight for her) but hopefully you realize those things now. You MUST hire and keep a L for you until the end of whatever this is. The stakes are simply too high. Get a payment plan if you have to, b/c if you don't, the amount of child support you'll pay could well be higher too. And travel, and the pain of not seeing her, etc

Don't be penny wise and pound foolish. Sorry it's come to this but good luck

[Redo]

25: Thanks. Always appreciate your feedback.

---Update---

I have say, it was a big relief and weight off my chest after i did this. Thanks to all of you who really drilled into my head that getting a L is a good choice. Later in the evening when time came to talk to daughter, i was lot more happier. Talked longer and better. I thought i'd send daughter little gifts occasionally. So i am learning origami now. I sent her some origami last week along with some candy. Maybe i can become good in it and teach it to her.

Later wife asked if i got her reply. I told her yes and that i am taking it to my lawyer. I dont think she understood because she knows that i did not retain one.

[25yearsmlc]

25: Thanks. Always appreciate your feedback.

---Update---

I have say, it was a big relief and weight off my chest after i did this. Thanks to all of you who really drilled into my head that getting a L is a good choice. Later in the evening when time came to talk to daughter, i was lot more happier. Talked longer and better. I thought i'd send daughter little gifts occasionally. So i am learning origami now. I sent her some origami last week along with some candy. Maybe i can become good in it and teach it to her.

Later wife asked if i got her reply. I told her yes and that i am taking it to my lawyer. I dont think she understood because she knows that i did not retain one.


Then I guess she'll be surprised, won't she? Don't back down if she makes this about YOU getting "dirty" or making the divorce "Ugly". You should expect her to try to make you wrong for simply standing up for yourself. She isn't used to seeing that, so it's a 180 and that WILL make her uncomfortable. But in time she'll also come to respect you for it. Don't cave in to her assertions if she tries to make you "wrong" about this. Stay calm when you talk to her but you're right to feel relief b/c now the "ugly" stuff can be handled by others. When conflict arises you tell her, "let's let the L's work that out b/c it seems we're at an impasse"

and in time, I'd bet she wants to keep legal costs down so she WILL be more prepared to negotiate and share with you. Til now, she's been holding all the cards b/c you let her. This changes that. Expect some bumps in the road as she doesn't always get her way. But do NOT back down. What you are doing is reasonable adult behavior. But yes, stay calm. A man in control of his emotions is a man of strength and that is attractive.

[Redo]

Thanks 25. I am very lucky to have you commenting on my sitch.
I think i have better understood the 'fake it till you make it' method.

[25yearsmlc]

[quote=mykarma]Thanks 25. I am very lucky to have you commenting on my sitch.
I think i have better understood the 'fake it till you make it' method. [/quote

Good, and you're welcome. Another suggestion for you - I found it very helpful to start envisioning my life in the future, short term and long term, 2 years, 5-10 years, etc. And in my scenarios, I was sometimes with h, sometimes without h. Sometimes with a new OM, sometimes alone.But In ALL my visions of my future, I forced myself to envision myself as a HAPPY WOMAN NO MATTER WHAT H did..I fleshed it out with details, being with the kids and h sometimes having them without me, or which new job I'd have. Where I'd live, as I could finally move wherever I wanted. I wondered if I'd keep my dog or let d22 have her and get a new puppy, or if I'd join a new book club, take another class, study or work abroad, move back home, etc.
You can begin envisioning, in detail, a happy you. What's it look like?

Then I began to make some of the visions/dreams, come true THEN. It was my GAL. And you know, I got happier and happier and naturally h noticed. After some time, months really, h wanted to come back into the m, but honestly, I had some reservations. I had come to like my new life and the kids were in their routine and we had managed damn well.

You CAN do this. NO WAITING for your life to start being good. It was all new to me too, my m was quite long; we had married when I was young. I had stayed at home for several years w/the kids, so employment was a stressor for me. You really have it easier than you realize. I mean it's hard, but not complicated. I just want you to know it was NOT easy for me or anyone here. There are wives here who never worked outside the home and have no college degrees and are left pretty darn stranded...but We learn as we go. No one here had it easy. We were all making big changes in our lives WHILE we were in great pain AND trying to comfort our children, maintaining as much stability as possible. It was the hardest thing I've ever done, let alone for so long. My h was gone for 2 years...

I suggest you read Holly06's thread as her h div her and now, finally, they are dating. It happens.

Remember the metaphor about your life being a novel?

Okay, so who is writing your novel? How do you like how THIS chapter is going? Really think about this okay....and why don't YOU write the rest of this novel? No more letting her reaction or comment or not calling you that day, or getting off curtly, affect your life or happiness.
Be the author of your life MK..

You demonstrated that some stressors affect you too much, so get some help with your anxiety levels. Have you seen a professional for that? If not, why not? What did they recommend?
It's clear your anxiety issues have greatly damaged your m and your w's views of you & the M. Plus, your d is growing up. Model a strong calm man for her, in charge of his stress.

Most of what you are dealing with as stressors, are tragic but typical in today's world (parental illness, the death of a loved one, a move, divorce, the loss of a job. My h and I have lost 4 family members in 2 years, 3 of them in 14 months AND I lost my job to care for mil with terminal cancer and our older d was in a pricey college & was assaulted and it was a traumatic experience for her, needless to say). Your d will someday face tough things. You just get through it. A parent has to show the child that their pain is not eternal and it's not fatal. Remember that. Teach her that. Know it in your heart and head. Where the head goes, the heart will follow.

When you let anxieties affect you so much that you lose your effectiveness and control over your words/actions, then you're letting your life get out of control. No more surrendering control of your life to the whims of your w, or fate and or chance. Take charge of your life/happiness. It's your responsibility.

1) GAL, and use some details planning them. Spend some time making a list (check out Denver's recent list.)
You need more than one activity but make at least one of them involve meeting other people. Avoid too much "alone" time.

Live in a small town? Well, we were in the interior of Alaska, remote small city of maybe 40k (though I think they were counting caribou, not people. Seemed to me to have maybe 5k, but whatever)....in the winter it was Dark 20 hours a day, w/deathly cold winters that lasted WAY too long...had a newborn, and two older children in elementary school. I had No job and had just moved there for h, so had no friends outside of h's work people.

SO--I took a dance class for exercise but it was hilarious, (fun)- a pottery class (total 180' for me, & kinda fun), I auditioned for theater roles and usually got them (SUPER FUN) and did stand up comedy (SUPER FUN) and volunteered at the women's shelter (Not fun but important AND I met my bff there), joined a writer's group (THAT group activity still helps my career & introduced me to a cool playwright who won an Oscar here!!), I worked out (had to for sanity & Vanity) saw a counselor (same thing-needed my sanity), and in winters I used a tanning booth for endorphins (sorry about the cancer thing, but wanted to feel better THEN & THERE). THere were also numerous kid activities I drove to and from, like wrestling for our son, and acting for both of the older kids, even did shows with them together! (Today, my older children both have degrees in theater and are professional film actors...all of that began with my GAL activities and what they learned from it...go figure)

I forced myself to be busy b/c it was so dark there, literally. I did NOT want to surrender to the darkness outside, or inside. And though it was the hardest I've ever worked just to feel "alright", I did. Eventually I even felt good.
I know you don't want to surrender to the darkness within...so don't.

2) Do 180s that are specifc. (Not just "be calmer" but maybe an affirmative action, such as 30 min of running, or 30 min of a quiet activity focussed on mental & emotional wellness). Could be classical music you listen to, while clearing your head. And no yelling, for instance.

3) set specific achievable goals. EX: "I will not argue with wife when she calls,- for a week". Take it one week at a time. Or, "I will end the phone conversation after 5 min" and will NOT initiate R talk and will Change the topic IF she btrings up R talk...(that's a tough one for you but it'd be SUCH a 180 for you)....." Another small goal, "I will meditate/pray/jog before she calls, so that I remain calm when we speak." When you succeed, pat yourself on the back. Staying focussed on kids only, etc...that built later into safe talks about h's job and how he felt about co-workers. I wasn't crazy about that at first b/c I blamed the job for our trouble. But I had to deal with it. It was a relatively safe topic. I listened and validated as best I could. That built on itself. When he asked me questions, I started having interesting upbeat answers about MY hot fun life. And some mystery...that intrigued him...

Have notes for your conversations so you can stay on message. (You mean, act like a candidate running for election? YES I do!!) I had a few mantras or "campaign messages" to reinforce them, things I worked out with my DB coach. Validate without surrendering reality-- "sounds like that's a tough situation" even though it was a sitch that H had created himself.... They feel more guilt than we know. They won't tell US anyhow.

My H wasn't dealing with reality and I didn't want to argue or enable, so I stayed on message, as firmly but lovingly as possible.

(IOW, Getting them to realize what and who they miss, is done by having something worth missing. Meaning, by being as warm/fun/loving GAL there, playing with the kids (YOU can do that when your d visits you, by retrieving her and bringing her back to your place so she knows where you live and can literally have pictures of it, as opposed to thinking you simply appear and disappear for no known reason). You cannot be needy in front of her. OR angry. When a conflict arises, which they will, after a minute of calmly expressing yourself, if it's escalating you refer it to lawyers...and get off the phone or get back on topic, which is your d....

4) get a good therapist or counselor to deal with anxiety issues, stress management, and communication skills. You need this. How can this hurt? It can't. It could save your m and your sanity. No judgment is attached.

5) keep & listen to your L. Your d and w are far away and that's not good. To reiterate for others reading, I believe you could have stopped her from moving out of state with your d, if you had hired a L then, instead of waiting and trying to avoid conflict...or hiding your head in the sand?? (I don't know why you didn't hire a L sooner b/c if it was the costs...well, now it'll cost you more b/c you have to overcome her move, but I don't want to beat a dead horse).

Has your new L heard about how your w took the d out of state without your consent?? Arguably an effective abduction? Will she go nuts if you pursue that and if so, so what? You are not 'making things worse" by fighting for your d. Things are already there, ya know?

Can you do fun things with your d that your w would wish she could see or do? THose are the moments you'll enjoy most and she'll notice most...

YOU ARE STRONGER THAN YOU KNOW.
[/b]

[Redo]

25: Thanks for the enlightening info.

Yup, my main issue has been that i always succumb to stressors. I have been learning slowly to decouple from the stressors. It has been a bumby road, but i aim to keep pushing.

Yup with GALing i do activities that just involves me. I have always been an introvert, but am trying to hang out with people more. It has been overwhelming, but again i plan on overcoming this too.

Wife taking away daughter...Wife did not taker her out of state. She took her to dallas. I live in austin. She did this when i was out of the country visiting my parents. She wanted to visit her family in dallas and never came back. Only came back to take all that was hers and our daughters.

Anxiety has been my biggest issue in our marriage. Personally it has helped me, but in the marriage it wreaked havoc. I do intend to seek professional help dealing with the anxiety. Problem has been finding the correct person. I have been visiting therapists for 3 years now and somehow none of them helped much.

[Redo]

Journaling...

Met with the lawyer yesterday. I was apprehensive a bit. But i think in all i am relieved i did this. She said she'll take care of everything and make sure i am not getting the short end of the stick. Gotta wait to see reaction from wife now.

[25yearsmlc]

25: Thanks for the enlightening info.

Yup, my main issue has been that i always succumb to stressors. I have been learning slowly to decouple from the stressors. It has been a bumby road, but i aim to keep pushing.

Start now. Why learn it "slowly"? What's with the "aim to keep pushing"? Get some help for it and just do it. Learn to stay calm, use your faith or mantra or whatever works but lose the freak out habit. It's NOT attractive and it's NOT Healthy for YOU.


Yup with GALing i do activities that just involves me. I have always been an introvert, but am trying to hang out with people more. It has been overwhelming, but again i plan on overcoming this too.

Your wording when you discuss change such as GAL activities ALL has the sound of future tense, as in "trying to hang out", "planning to" and "aiming to" etc. Just do it. Now. It's not brain surgery. Join something with other people in it. Do it by Monday. There are classes, clubs, sports teams, seminars, Toastmaster's speaking clubs if you need help with public speaking. All have other people in them. What are you afraid of? Do some logical reasoning here... No one is going to ask you to stand up, get naked, carve letters in your forehead, force you to sing or dance, or tell your darkest secrets (at least not in the GAL activities I have in mind).

MK, THERE'S FAR LESS TO FEAR than you realize. And there's a huge upside. Change MK, and begin today.

Wife taking away daughter...Wife did not taker her out of state. She took her to dallas. I live in austin. She did this when i was out of the country visiting my parents. She wanted to visit her family in dallas and never came back. Only came back to take all that was hers and our daughters.

That's not in compliance with the laws of any state (unless you later "ratified it" by doing nothing about it when you had your chance). You can call her on it. Talk to your L. But Austin to Dallas is less than 6 hours driving. My h is in the Army reserves right now. He's about 6 hours away. He comes home every single weekend. Hasn't missed one. He's an MD so it's not as if his work isn't demanding. You can see your D a lot more than you have.

Anxiety has been my biggest issue in our marriage. Personally it has helped me, but in the marriage it wreaked havoc.

Yes it is a huge issue in your M, paralyzing you and creating pain and strife and MORE conflict in your life and marriage. Further, I don't buy that it helped you "personally" at all. How can it have helped you "personally" if it ruined your r with your w AND interferes with your R's with your parents? I don't buy it. I wonder if You're really saying that somehow anxiety motivated you in your work b/c fear of failure got you to move forward professionally...is that it? Well believe me, there are tons of healthier HAPPIER ways to motivate yourself.

Just b/c your fears pushed you at work, does not mean there are not better options and it's just a fact, there ARE better options. For one thing, there are happier ones.

Your approach seems to be "terror of failing fuels my ambition" and that means that for every professional achievement and the pleasure it might bring, you had to "pay" in days of feeling terrible and panicking, which you admit. Man, Life is short. Why spend it in pain and agony and discomfort and fear, when you don't have to? And you don't have to. Plus of course, the anxiety problem is HUGE in your posts, your actions, your relationships and your marriage, even MORE now. You know this now so I won't belabor the point.

But I wanted to call you on how it's "helped" you personally...no way. I think you got your work done DESPITE your anxiety. And what other ways do you think it "helped" you? Socially? No, you are an introvert with anxiety issues so you have to fix the anxiety asap. It's also physically unhealthy. I'm surprised you don't have digestive issues and sleep problems. This is a big obstacle for you to overcome. So start asap. The good news is that you know it.

I do intend to seek professional help dealing with the anxiety. Problem has been finding the correct person. I have been visiting therapists for 3 years now and somehow none of them helped much.

Sorry but I have to call you on this. THREE years of "various therapists somehow" did not help you much??? That means to me, you resist change/don't listen or do what they ask. And you have resisted change and reverted to your old behaviors a LOT, and you still do. I don't get it. If I had a habit that cost me the most important thing in my life, I'd lose that habit as fast as I could. I would try anything to avoid feeling the loss of my loved one. THAT LOSS is more than my pain or discomfort in quitting the "habit". Either way you'll be uncomfortable.

In all the important R's in your life, you repeat behaviors that don't work, or harm the R's, you revert to them, you don't do new behaviors for long, which means you resist change as if it's the most terrifying thing in the world. Even when things are in a shambles with old behaviors being repeated, you seem more comfortable with the losses you face, than the idea of actual genuine deep change within you. Maybe down deep, you think it would be less painful for you to just give up, act and be the same anxious fear driven man you've been, who might meet some woman who doesn't care that you are fear driven and would control your life and make all the choices for you, and you could hope that they'd put you first and just start over with a new family.
Is that appealing to you? IS it at all realistic? You need to figure that out.
See, in the long run, imho, you'll have more comfort and ease by changing now. I can't see the behaviors you've exhibited being very rewarding in the long run.


The great news is that this is all within your control. Do you see how wonderful that is? Sure, you feel guilty for causing a lot of problems but you know there are solutions. It'd be much worse to have the issues all relate to your w having, say, a drug problem for example. Then you'd be stuck b/c you would have no control over her problems...This is why I WANTED to be at "fault" when my h and I went to mc in his MLC. But alas, they'd say things like "your h is acting like a single man, wants out..." and there wasn't much I could say to that.

If you choose to abdicate the responsibility of your life, and blame others and want them to "fix" you in a way that makes it easy for you, you'll stay stuck in your present type of life..I mean, 3 years with different therapists, and it didn't occur to you that maybe YOU are not "getting" it? Wake up my friend. You can do this. YOU MUST.

For possibly the first time in your life, we're telling you to take charge of your happiness and life. Don't resist change, embrace change. The real alternative to change, in your situation, is pretty miserable looking and lonely. You simply have nothing to lose & everything to gain. This is your life, it's not a dress rehearsal. You are already in the 2nd Act. There's only one Act left and then it's time for the epilogue. So Go for it.

FYI- there are some men around here who can better help you with a lot of the "manning up" issues. Robx, Gucci, Was2sad (Was2 helped me a great deal when h first left. Was2 is brilliant and kind and just what I needed. But all 3 of these men will give you useful advice, which you can ignore, accept or pick and choose.
Just wondering where you are from b/c you say "yup" for yes. Is that an idiom in your homeland? Curious.

Good luck