Recovering after a same sex affair - Part 4

[OnMyWay]

Ok, AJ, I'm in. We gonna highjack sparks thread here to post results? Or shall we start our own thread? Might be a better idea.

Almost did this Sunday, as D wanted to pick some up. But I'll surprise her with them tomorrow on my way home from work!

[AJM80]

You can post to yours, I'll come over and read it or we can start a new post. not trying to hijack - I figured you, Sparks and I were in a unique situation, with our WAW spouse hanging around the house.

My gut says you've moved a step closer Sparks... It may be time for another plateau, setback, or low soon (or Easter tears may have been that for you). She got angry, right, then you both sort of worked through it to get to a nice Easter? You don't want to pressure her (the invite was well done), but you do want to keep surprising her with ways you're different, "moving on" with or without her, and showing her what life she'd be missing.

As a woman, I miss that sense of home and security, and romantic/caring things. The flowers sort of hit both. You could also get a welcome mat, bake a loaf of bread (freezer section has frozen dough), change hand soap/toothpaste/etc the next time you run out (I'd almost bet you're still using what she always bought), hang up some pictures (if you don't have frames, kmart has these $1, $3. 5 dollar basic black/white wood ones that look great with a couple (I'd do baby pics - don't put her up there) clustered on the wall). I periodically move furniture around - H gets a little shake up and an opportunity for H to compliment things. I want her to see the value now of being with you AND being with a guy. I'd keep it focused on little things for 2 reasons - her lack of money will make her angry if she sees you spending and because I think that's what a lot of people lost track of .

[~ kd ~]

I love the flower idea, AJM! I will have to go buy a vase, as well... (I don't think a beer stein is a good vase...) of course, I moved out and my W does not pop in here. I told her from day one, she was not welcome. But my Ds come here. They'll probably appreciate them.

[greenblue90]

AJ
That is some sound advice me and my W had a very brief separation, but each time she came by to pick up stuff, I did my best to make the house look it's best. I even did some of the things you had suggested like hanging pictures, putting up decorations and even restocking some expendable items. She definitely noticed. Now everytime she is gone for a day or two I take the opportunity to work a little on the house. It also helps me to stay busy doing something positive, and shows that I'm not as helpless around the house as she may think I may be.

[sparks14]

AJ - I think those touches around the house are fantastic ideas! I already keep the house very clean. So here is where I admit to being OCD. The house is just a small part of it. I have mad a few added touches, though. In a corner of the living room that housed one of her pieces of furniture that is now gone, I got a large indoor plant. I planted it in an awesome colorful pot that we bought together that she really wanted in the house. I have always kept up with keeping the lawn in awesome shape, but she has been the key force in landscape, plants, flowers, etc. I went ahead and planted the backyard with new plants and flowers to her amazement. They have been a great touch.

I guess it is just presenting our home in the most positive light. I bought the house five years ago while we were dating, but she has always lived here. I can tell that she truly misses our home and the comfort in it.

I like the idea about the flowers. I am going to try that inside to see if it causes a reaction. To be honest, this is something that I have been very good about in our M. Almost to a point where it began to be under appreciated. Does that make sense? I would buy flowers for no occasion in particular. When she would ask, I would tell her that I got them for her because I loved her. Over the years, they seemed to mean less to her. Maybe I should have seen this as a sign. I then began to get upset internally when she did not change the water or cut the stems, so I began to do it for her.

Gerber daisies are her favorite, but that would be too obvious. I will stick with something nice that would not hit a personal note with her.

[sparks14]

Couples Therapy Journal

Wow. A small breakthrough, perhaps?

W began the session by asking me a question. What would a future relationship between us look like to you?

I admit that I was surprised by the question. This is the first that there has been any discussion of a future together, since the bomb. I have been holding patient, DBing, while she has been self discovering her needs. I will be very careful in not over analyzing this, but the discussion did sound as though she has been looking at the possibility to reconcile. She just has concerns and wants to talk them out.

I began to answer the question by telling her that we would take a transition back to our marriage very slowly and carefully. I am dedicated to rebuilding from the foundation, and that it was important to me that we do not fall into our old marriage. I believe that it is possible with this new communication between us to build a better marriage.

She began to ask the questions that have been roadblocks for her, while she has thought about this same topic in her self discovery.

Her first concerned my family. She feels like my family knows too much about her affair, and she will never feel comfortable around them regardless of any possible reconciliation on their part. Since family is important and active in both of our lives, how would it work between us if she was not willing to be around my family at all. How would we do Christmas with our S if she was not comfortable being near my family? How could a relationship work for me if she was not willing to be around any of them? I validated her feelings and told her that I understood how she would feel so hesitant to interact with my family right now. I believe that time would heal those wounds. They do not know the details that I know concerning the affair. They are more protective of me, because my W caused me so much hurt with the affair. They do, however, have the ability to reconcile. My W just feels like this will never happen and does not feel like I would be willing to make that compromise for her and our marriage.

Her second concern came with sex. She told me that she is not sexually attracted to me right now. She is not in love with me right now. How would a relationship work without intimacy. Therapist chimed in, and we all began to discuss the emotional connection that builds the intimate connection. We also discussed how W's orientation questions also plays into this as well. Our therapist mentioned how there are still questions to where my W is on the sexuality spectrum. If there is a spectrum that has full hetero on one end and full homo on the other, my W will fit anywhere in between. Where in between is the main question, and that could be very fluid. These are the questions that my W has not fully come to a conclusion about, but she might not ever fully know. We talked about how our sex life was not great for the last few years. It felt forced and not enjoyable for her. This probably was a part of my W feeling caged. We had sex on date nights, because she felt as though it was expected. The four months it took for her to get pregnant also felt forced. Having sex on a schedule was very stressful. The was a time, however, where our sex life was great. The emotional connection was strong, so our sexual connection was also strong. Even with same sex desires, where will she be if that emotional connection can be restored? How would our relationship look while we figure this out? In the end, if she requires the emotional and sexual connection with another woman, then there is no way that our M would work. The problem is that this topic is not as cut and dry as I wish it were to be. A few months ago, I felt like there would be a clear understanding whether my W was gay or straight and that would ultimately determine if we would stay married or divorce. The definitive answer is simply not there and may never be. Our therapist mentioned that we might not know if the intimacy will improve until we reconnect emotionally, and that will only happen over time.

Her third concern was falling right back into the old marriage. She said that she was not implying that I would change to my old self and faults, but that she very well could. I told her that I was committed to a M built on trust and communication. I want her on equal ground and would strive to make sure that she feels that way. She feels that we may not be able to make those changes and is scared that we would fall right back into the pain.

My W told my therapist that these were just a few of the topics. She has been compiling a list of concerns. Therapist thought it would be a good idea to work on her list and present each of them as topics for therapy. Not to rehash, but to learn about each other and communicate as we have done in previous sessions. I completely agreed. I think it will be really good for us to start talking more about upcoming hurdles if we were to reconcile and rebuild our M.

We have a long way to go, but I am looking forward to discussing this topic in the weeks ahead. I told my W that we are not there yet. Maybe not even close. I am not ready to rush back into a relationship, and I think it is very important for us to keep talking about things and ease back into it if we decide that is best. I did not want to rush back into anything without taking careful measures to prevent collapse. Patience is key.

I do wonder what my own tolerance will be to some of these concerns now that I have started to build emotional detachment. As I have discussed here with others, there is often a flip that occurs between the WAS and LBS. I think it will be interesting how I react and compromise to many of her concerns.

[OnMyWay]

OMG sparks. From where I sit, you've just made a major score. The fact that you and W are even talking about M and "what it would look like" sounds hugely positive and is definitely a step in the right direction. Whatever you're doing, do more of it!

[greenblue90]

Sparks
I totally agree with OMW.

A word of caution though, me and my W are going through the exact same thing with the whole intimacy issues. This is hard since I imagine your W is as confused as mine as to what they really want. I really think society has done such a good job pigeonholing us into specific little boxes, that she finds it hard to transition from one to the other. I truly believe as stated before that it is not boxes but rather a scale. This is totally my opinion, but women need someone to be there for them, and at the same time provide security, and a sense of well being and belonging.

All that being said be VERY careful reinitiating intimacy. Do not pursue intimacy even if she moves back in, and wants to work things out. I know it will be hard, but I made that mistake and I'm pretty sure it has set me back. Let her come to you, otherwise she will think that you are forcing yourself on her. (This doesn't just refer to ml, but also to hugs and kisses). Be positive, and be happy, but most importantly let the intimacy and that close contact come naturally.

After this experience I believe that women will gravitate to whoever can meet her needs, be it male or female. Unfortunately society (to include you) are pressuring her to pick between 3 boxes. Straight, lesbian, or bi. Each time she changes boxes it is a huge emotional problem, since she now must rationalize and agonize over this new decision. The more you push her, the more she will be reminded of this and backlash at you for pressuring her to make a choice. (I'm sure you knew all this already). Instead just let it come naturally. I think Michelle said it best when she said (and I paraphrase) that intimacy is built by spending good times together, with little to no negatives. WAW's are blinded by their need to run away from their LBS that they don't see the negatives in their new relationship with OM (or in our case OW). Thus the dreaded fog.... Spend time positively with her, while minimizing bad experiences (like pushing for intimacy), and the intimacy and positive sexual tension will naturally return. (At least thats what I got from MWD's article).

One last thing. Get yourself a copy of No More Mr Nice Guy. by Dr. Glover. It has been a great help to me to understand which of my nice guy behaviors she has found repulsive, and have contributed to her not being attracted to me. I have been weak and pretty spineless in the past, that is not sexy. This book has helped me understand why it is not attractive, and forced me to admit that my behavior is not exactly the stuff of dime store romance novels. (Hey they sell for a reason right?)

alright rant is over....good luck brother...things are looking good

[OnMyWay]

I second a couple of great points GB90 has made here:

First is that women will gravitate to whomever can meet her needs. I see that as being the case in my sitch. My WAW will move toward whomever will coddle her at the moment she is wearing whatever emotions suit her at that time.

Second, NMMNG is a big eye opener for guys like me.

[AJM80]

Wow Sparks - I have wondered and I know my H is concerned about having to see my family. In my head, I think, the key is that you're saying she's important (more important than your family, since she and your son are your FAMILY) and you are asking her to trust you 1) that you won't rush it (but she has to make an effort to heal both families), 2) that you know your family and believe they will be civil and try, for your and your son's sake, and 3) that you have her back and will stand up for her. You may have to do some family events solo, talk to people behind the scenes, reintegrate her slowly with more welcoming family first. Think about some of the things you would do, so that you could reassure her. Guys, does that fall into your no more Mr Nice Guy stuff do's or is that don't, in your opinion? She's going to have to step up and put herself out there at some point.

One suggestion, don't tell your fam right away if she wants to reconcile. Keep it your private exploratory time with each other, without extra pressure. I really agree with the sex/romance stuff. It's kind of like dating a new person, right? You're not going to try to sleep with them or take them to meet your parents after a couple dates.

My dad HATES my H right now. But you know what, he's the one that said to give him a chance to explain himself. He also suggested I not come home for Tgiving, that maybe we needed to be together as our 4 person family more than we needed to be with extended family. Ultimately, she's going to have to earn the trust of your family back too. She's got to be willing to say, you know what, it's worth it. Being a family is worth it. Deep down inside, my dad knows he cannot alienate my H without driving me away or hurting the kids. My H just doesnt understand that yet and neither does your wife.