Cat Thanks for the recommendation. As for the hair I honestly used to not care about it. Short long it didn't matter. My W started stating she liked it longer and I agree. Not making an excuses but I do. Now I have to cut it every once in a while to make standard. Personally I don't like it either I am of mix decent and I think too short hair makes me look too hoodlum-ish. Never liked that at all even before I met my W. She met me with long hair and I was already in the military. I am also lucky that in my particular field hair slightly longer than usual is accepted, and it's what the cool guys do lol. You'd be surprise how long the regulation let's you have hair. Buzz cuts are merely a product of group think, and while it looks nice to have a group of guys with buzz cuts I prefer my hair long. This is just one of those rare instances where we both agree. Ultimately I don't think that it was about the hair. I think she wanted to feel welcome back, and that she missed me, but had a hard time expressing it. She wanted me to make the first move and after I didn't she zeroed on the hair to have something to say. She herself told me she was expecting a warmer welcome. I was trying to detach.
Yeah you're right I am all over the place. According to the book I am reading I have some heavy nice guy tendencies. I am working on DB, and working on not being mr nice guy. All three modes of behavior are popping out at once it seems and I myself am super confused. I think for now I want to be 0 percent mr nice guy, 50 percent DB and 50 percent no more mr nice guy. It's weird NMMNG wants me to take care of myself first but DB wants me to listen, validate and change where appropriate. I am trying to find that happy medium.
Cat Reread your post. Really good points I do agree now that other posters were merely pointing out what I have allowed I got upset because it made me feel weak. After reading NMMNG I now understand that I was weak, but hated it having being pointed out to me. As young at heart and the book have pointed out I really need to man up, and take care of myself. This past week was supposed to be the trial period. I am seriously trying to live this whole cult of man thing. Last night proved to me that I am not strong enough yet, and I still don't have her respect enough to get what I want from her. Need to keep working on giving it to myself first. Here are some of the things I have been trying to do:
1. Started working out for a competitive goal: I did triathlon in college need to do that again. Hit the pool today for the first time in over a year. It felt great.
2.hanging out with the guys: whereas I did none before much more involved now.
3. Cultivating different pursuits: different books, movies, games, etc etc than her.
4. Moratorium: on ml suggested by NMMNG. Supposed to make things better once I start seeking validation through ml, removes the pressure from day to day life.
Really looking forward to reading fight club, it never got my attention before, but a male friend that knows of how I have repressed my manhood when it comes to my W recommended it. I am really looking forward to it. I know in practice I havent been strong I really hope it's the initial jitters. NMMNG pointed out that at first it will be hard to hold on to these changes and that I may regress when challenged. I really will need support in the next couple of weeks.
Log entry .....Her first thing to say was "you got a haircut" (she doesn't like me with short hair).
....I also realized that I needed to be excited with her, otherwise she would get her support from her friends and not me. I started listening to her and truly getting excited, not jealous this really smoothed things over.
...I didn't do my usual routine of smothering her by trying to take care of her. Instead waited till she asked for my help. She did and was very appreciative. So this is what it is like to have someone appreciate you, without you forcing them.
...It was nice. I hope I can make a full recovery from NGS.
Man you are one quick study! You are figuring things out so quickly. Making changes in behavior takes time, so don't be too hard on yourself.
A couple of comments. Chapman's Five Languages of Love really helped me understand interactions with my wife.
Her comment about your hair may have been to show you that she is observant and wanted to start talking and connecting with you (then again, I may be trying to read too much into it).
From your words, I would suspect (using Chapmans perspective) that your wife needs "Quality Time" and she needs "Acts of Service" to feel loved. You should find out and then use that knowledge to make her feel loved.
Quality Time for her is when you actively listen and talk about things that she is interested in and hopefully she will then talk about things that are important to you. It is a way of emotionally/mentally bonding. It sounds to me (I could be wrong) that when you listened and got excited with her about her trip that you gave her the quality time she was looking for. You might want to read Chapman's book or look at the URL links I gave you in an earlier post to better understand what quality time is. Providing her with love in her languages of love, isn't being a Nice Guy, it is taking care of your relationship.
Her asking for help and your providing it may (or may not) have been an act of service on your part. Are there "acts of service" that she prides herself on in your marriage. For example, my wife feels that if she provides me with a hot home cooked meal at dinner that is her way of showing me how much she loves me. She also feels that her doing the laundry and making sure that the house is clean is her way of "taking care" of her man. Other women pride themselves on staying in shape for their husbands, etc.
After learning my wife is a quality time & acts of service person from Chapman's book and her taking the test in the book and giving me the results, I now do more acts of service for her and find opportunities for quality time that make her feel loved.
For example, I bring two cups of coffee to bed each morning after the alarm clock goes off, so she can gradually wake up while drinking coffee without getting out of bed. When she is awake, we talk about what her day will be and what I will be doing. I ask her about things she is concerned about. Then at dinner I make sure I find out how her day went by asking about specific meetings and things so she knows that I listened to her and am "engaged" in what is happening in her life. If I am going to be late for dinner, I call her in advance, so she knows and can slow things down or make other plans. I also do acts of service for her like make sure that her car is filled with gas, and washed so she feels taken care of. There are other things, but these are examples of things that make my wife feel loved. Your Mileage may vary.
Once I figured out that the way I feel loved (touch and words of affirmation) was not how she wanted to be told I loved her, it explained a lot of our problems. I told her that I loved her by touching her and holding her, and telling her what a wonderful person she was, because that was a way that I wanted her to act toward me. She felt I was constantly pawing at her or buttering her up (As I nice guy when it didn't work, I just tried harder). She on the other hand was constantly telling me she loved me by doing things like making sure a home cooked meal was ready at dinner time or trying to talk to me when I was doing other things.
If I was late or said I didn't like the dinner, it felt to her as hateful as I felt when she physically rejected my touching her. If I said that I wanted to watch TV or do work on the Computer when she tried to engage in quality time, it was like I was telling her I didn't love her. We were talking, but we weren't really communicating our emotions in a way that the other could understand.
Again, I strongly recommend Chapmans Five Lanagues of Love. Sometimes in the book stores it is in the religious book section (because so many church couples seminars use it), but its approach is not very religious, just practical.
Again, you are amazing at figuring things out. You need to also understand that change in you and your wife will take time.
Good luck to you.
>43 years of marriage--My wife and I are now closer than we have been in decades. I believe that my SSM is over.
Might get it this weekend if I get to go out of town.
I agree with you though on those being her love languages. I noticed that she is very receptive to small hand made gifts, and really appreciates that I started washing dishes. (She loathes it, and I loathe seeing the pile). I also know that I am in direct competition with her best friend, who I suspected at one point of her having an EA with. (Never have been able to prove it either way) They're both crazy fan girls of the same bands, so I need to be able to listen otherwise she will.
I also noticed that she has a very hard time sharing her emotions. To her it makes her feel vulnerable and weak. This is to the point that she hits me like a little school girl hits the boy she likes. (Before anyone cries out spouse abuse, they are light slaps on the arm, good natured, and we are both laughing when they occur. I am not walking into doors :P )
One more thing I have to mention. We usually fight over her indecision for dinner, I always say whatever she wants, and she waffles then gets angry at me for giving her the choice. (Typical NGS) Last night quickly picked the restaurant, while picking the appetizers she kept trying to change my mind, and I held my ground, she even tried saying that she really wanted another one to see if I would bow down, and I said "no I want this one, if you would like another one you can get it separetely." This is one of those weird fights we'd always have, it was very nice to take charge.
lots of mind reading going on. Why don't you just speak w/clarity about what you want & take her word at face value? Seems co-dependent & counter-productive to keep guessing. Owning your words is strong if they're calmly expressed.Mind reading doesn't work well & it enables too many games to continue. I'll keep my other "alarm bells" to myself b/c I can tell you feel overwhelmed.
But Set measurable SPECIFIC goals or you won't get anywhere.
Just mho.
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
25 yrs Indeed part of the NMMNG program is being honest with yourself and her and telling her what you really want. Not do a bunch of nice things in the hopes that she gets what you want, and when she doesn't you turn into a monster. I understand that. On the other hand I know my W well enough to know that after years of hiding my feelings I just can't open the flood gates. It would just be too much, as NMMNG says she herself is not used to me being more assertive. Despite her really wanting for me to man up. (she mentioned all the NGS qualities and emphasized she didn't like them. )
Trust me I hate all this. I want it to be over, but I realize it will take time. Time for me to be strong, and time for her to be willing to accept the sacrifices involved. She may be living with me but I recognize she can walk at any moment. She still has doubts about all this. WAW's cannot be reasoned with. Every time you try to reason with them all they hear is "he doesn't get me, this is why I need to leave.". The hardwork comes at the piecing stage. I'm pretty sure I have stated that plenty of times. You keep insisting I fix the problem. I must fix myself first, get strong, fix my own issues and gather the strength. Yes fixing this marriage is the main effort, but fixing myself is the necessary shaping op. (like that military lingo?)
GB90 - Took some time to catch up on your sitch. It looks like NMMNG is really helping you gain your confidence. That's awesome. You are getting some fantastic advice from the vets. Keep up the good work. I look forward to reading about your progression.
Me - 33 W - 33 S - 9 months M - 3 years T - 5.5 years Bomb - 12/14/10 ILYBNILWY PA discovered - 1/18/11 PA began - 3/22/10 Separated
The hardwork comes at the piecing stage. I'm pretty sure I have stated that plenty of times. You keep insisting I fix the problem. I must fix myself first, get strong, fix my own issues and gather the strength. Yes fixing this marriage is the main effort, but fixing myself is the necessary shaping op. (like that military lingo?)
You are right but you are also wrong about what you stated above.
25 has pieced (still is), I have pieced (in my M)(still am in a new R)...
We both know very well the differences between pre and post reconciliation work...
And no joke, even a new R, is piecing, just with someone else...
Because you still have your own stuff and the partner has their stuff to work on...
It is hard. In some ways it is harder work than what comes after the bomb, where you are right now...
However, what you are dealing with now, is hard and you won't get to piecing if you don't do this work...
That is what she is asking you to fix right now...
While your W also has some responsibility in this, and she has some stuff to fix as well...
There are reasons, underlying things with in you, that allowed you to have insecurities, allowed YOU to accept treatment that was at best disrespectful and at worst abusive...
You have to understand the reasons for that...
Why YOU were willing to live the way that you have...
Before you can really fix it...
If you want to fix you, you really need to start digging deeper...
And that can be a very very scary prospect...
Your work, begins now, not when you get to piecing...
"Acceptance doesn't mean resignation. It means understanding that something is what it is and there's got to be a way through it."--Michael J. Fox
just so I am clear, I don't see you as in "piecing" yet. That takes two people working on the R. Don't get all defensive when I ask my next question, ok?
But where is the idea that she is working on the R coming from? I mean, simply not filing for div isn't "piecing". "Piecing" is, at a minimum, putting the concept/threat of divorce to the side for a time so that piecing can have a chance. Having the sword of Damacles (or divorce) hanging over your head all the time, 24/7 is no way to live. You are on egg shells.
Seems to me she's constantly testing you, usually in ways you'll fail, and she's extremely confused herself. Has she said she wants to work on the M? If so, how?
Those are basics to start with, other than your own work. And when you do your own work, the R has to change, by definition. R's between 2 people are necessarily affected by changes in one. So if you change your ways (in ways that you want to) at some point she'll react differently, or not. But the R itself will be new. And then if she does want to work on it, she'll change, and the R will continue to evolve.
Our 30th anniversary is coming up. Our m is, and always will be, a work in progress. But the word/concept/threat of divorce was banished a few years ago, when we chose to piece and then to recommit fully.
It's a paradox in some ways. On one hand you can't take each other for granted. But on the other hand, you have to trust that a mistake or misstep or even a small fight won't end the marriage in one fell swoop. And you have to trust enough to function as a couple, (you being late from work can't make her think you are having an A) but requires openess of emotions too, and that is apparently hard for her. How is she with all her friends? Is she open or extroverted? Are her childhood friends still in touch?
Good luck, hang in there.
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
